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Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros Podcast, host Micah Johnson interviews Jim Carmichael, a seasoned commercial real estate broker with over 25 years of experience. Jim shares his journey from managing a mobile home dealership to becoming a successful broker and property manager. He discusses the importance of leading with people over property, building strong client relationships, and the challenges of managing a team. Jim also introduces his new book, ‘Travel for Success,’ which explores how taking regular trips can enhance productivity and time management. The conversation emphasizes the significance of caring for clients and team members alike, and how a strong philosophy can guide business practices.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Jim Carmichael (00:00)
That’s actually something that’s a big philosophy of ⁓ equity marketing and in the exchange world among the board of directors of the National Council of Exchangers and that is something that we talk about a lot. you know your client and know not just their motivation but you know them well enough thatyou can have dinner with them and it’s comfortable. ⁓ And then you can help them better. The whole purpose, the function as a broker is to find them the benefits they need and solve their problem. And if you don’t know them well enough to know their problem, then you’re just doing transactions and anybody can do that.
Micah Johnson (00:21)
Mm.Hey everyone, welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m your host, Micah Johnson. And today I’m joined by someone I’ve been looking forward to chatting with. His name is Jim Carmichael with the Carmichael Group and he’s been making some serious moves in real estate for quite some time now. He has a statement that I love. They lead with people over property. Jim, welcome in man. How you doing today?
Jim Carmichael (02:31)
Good, thank you, MicahMicah Johnson (02:32)
man, I’m excited for you to be here. I think our listeners are really gonna take something away from how you’re approaching one real estate in general and your long arc in it and how you’re finding these new things in the data center world to keep growing your business. So let’s dive in. First off, for people who may not be familiar with you, give us the short version, what your main focus is these days, the markets that you’re in.Jim Carmichael (02:52)
I’ve been a commercial estate broker for 25 years in the Northern Kentucky, Greater Cincinnati market. And that has, we’ve done a lot of things over the course of those 25 years. And about 2018, we started a property management company that led to a residential team. We have full-time maintenance, full-time staff, construction. And those opportunities as we grew and as we’ve networked have led to…Now we’re working in the data center space, as you said. And in particular, we work in edge data centers. They’re much smaller than what you hear about in the news oftentimes.
Micah Johnson (03:28)
Okay, dig into thata little bit. What’s that difference in an edge data center to that term we hear a lot already?
Jim Carmichael (03:33)
So basically what we build are self-sustaining data centers. We work with ⁓ a modular model, so it’s a modular data center. We create our own power through solar, turbine, hydrogen, of course, battery backups. And we are not a drain on the grid. We actually provide power back to the grid. And instead of being the big 100, 500,Micah Johnson (03:54)
That’s annoying.Jim Carmichael (03:57)
megawatts or a giga plant were a 10 megawatt facility.Micah Johnson (04:02)
Interesting. Okay, we’ll keep digging into that more as we go. you got started in commercial 25 years ago. What was that? Was that your first job you got into? Did you transition from something into real estate? How’d that go?Jim Carmichael (04:14)
⁓I was actually a general manager at a mobile home dealership in North Carolina. ⁓ And I was looking for a new opportunity. And as I put my resume out there, a regional manager from Marcus Millichap saw my experience in the mobile home industry. And I had an interview and he basically said, can you read this P &L? And I went, yeah. And he said.
Micah Johnson (04:22)
Okay.Jim Carmichael (04:36)
I can teach you how to sell mobile home parks. And that’s how I got started.Micah Johnson (04:40)
Man,okay, for some selling mobile homes to selling the mobile home parks. And then you mentioned a transition in 2018. So you were going along and then things changed. Explain a little bit what happened there.
Jim Carmichael (05:38)
⁓ It was from the previous recession things were very slow for several years and decided that I wasn’t going to be in that position again so we wanted to make sure there were multiple streams of income so we basically made the decision to start a property management company there was an opportunity that presented itselfMicah Johnson (05:40)
AndJim Carmichael (05:59)
And that started off strong and then I sold a client a small multifamily property and he said Do you have anybody you can refer to as the management? said well as a matter of fact, we can do that So we started with those five units and have grown it to about 150 doors And we basically oh I just say we we we manage for clients who you know buy and sell through our brokerageMicah Johnson (06:18)
Man, so kind of, go ahead.⁓ fascinating vertical to add. So you kind of have a closed market in a way they come in. You can only work with you if you are working with your team that’s helping them buy and sell the property. And so you were in the business a while and then you found this other vertical. I think that’s common in the space where you, if you’re in real estate long enough, you’re going to go through a market cycle where things get a little bit shaky. And then you start looking for that. What’s that additional piece that you can add on? How has
How has property management affected your business by adding it? Did it create that stabilization you were looking for?
Jim Carmichael (06:56)
⁓ yeah, for sure. And there are challenges with doing that. is a… I was fortunate to have a partner when we started. So that allowed me to continue to keep my sales volume where I needed it.Because the one challenge that think agents would get into or any broker would get into when you’re starting a property management company, it takes so much time that it can eat into your time to prospect or network or do anything sales related. So you have to be able to have a kind of a fine balance because until you get to about 50 doors, it’s tough to have staff. It’s just it doesn’t work well. But we found a solution for that.
Micah Johnson (07:33)
willing to share?Jim Carmichael (07:34)
If you can have a partner, and it’s something we do offer to people that want to get into the business, that can handle the back end for you. All the paperwork, collecting, taking in the collections, making sure the rent’s collected, making sure the bills are paid, doing all that administrative stuff. If you can get somebody that can take that off your plate.⁓ for a percentage of your management fees to get you started, it’s worth it.
Micah Johnson (07:58)
Interesting. So it’s that what I see a lot in just business in general is there’s always kind of two sides to that coin. There’s one piece where it’s running and then on the other piece, all the nuts and bolts that make sure it just keeps going. typically you might be good at one and lack the other. And you said that you had a partner. How important has that partnership really been to growing things bigger?Jim Carmichael (08:20)
The partnership was an integral part of getting to the point where it made sense to not have a partner anymore. And it just made good sense. We split off January 1 of 2024 officially.Micah Johnson (08:31)
Okay.Jim Carmichael (08:39)
It just made sense then to where the portfolio that I had under management was sustainable to where I could have staff take care of things instead of having a partner.Micah Johnson (08:49)
Gotcha.Now through this journey, we let out with a statement that you said in our pre-call where people, how’d it go? People are more important than the property. Let’s dig in there. Where, where’d that philosophy come from? How have you used it during your time in real estate?
Jim Carmichael (09:02)
⁓ That’s actually something that’s a big philosophy of ⁓ equity marketing and in the exchange world among the board of directors of the National Council of Exchangers and that is something that we talk about a lot. you know your client and know not just their motivation but you know them well enough thatyou can have dinner with them and it’s comfortable. ⁓ And then you can help them better. The whole purpose, the function as a broker is to find them the benefits they need and solve their problem. And if you don’t know them well enough to know their problem, then you’re just doing transactions and anybody can do that.
Micah Johnson (09:25)
Mm.find that in the real estate industry that you run into that transactional business a lot and it can kind of be easy to fall into especially in the brokerage space because it can become just you just focused on the deal that’s right in front of you this this right here how have you all made sure to keep that people are the most important forefront in your business
Jim Carmichael (10:35)
⁓It’s really, it’s how we operate and even when we interview a new client, we lead with that. The people are more important than the property. If there comes a time that you’re not satisfied with either the service we provide or what we’re doing, I would rather part ways in the business than lose the relationship. And we’ve done that. Unfortunately, it’s had to happen a few times over the years.
Micah Johnson (10:57)
Well, mean, nobody’s ever a good fit for everybody. Like it doesn’t work out. And I, I like how you’re leading into just saying that upfront because there’s so much pressure in those early relationships, especially you’re, you’re someone that doesn’t know what’s going on. You’re trying to get into it. You’re placing so much trust in this person in front of you that if they’re not being intentional about it, it’s not that difficult to take advantage of somebody. It’s not that difficult to do something with is what for them is the largest financial transaction they’re probably making.It’s a big deal, so I appreciate that you view it that way.
Jim Carmichael (11:27)
We.Yeah, and we work with a lot of out of state and out of country investors. I’ve had many investors buy properties sight unseen. Some have never seen the properties. And they rely on me.
Micah Johnson (11:41)
That’s not by accident.Yeah, that’s not by accident. You definitely need a strong relationship to be able to sell that way. And as someone who’s been in sales quite some time too, it’s the philosophy that I agree with. If you really show up and are willing to tell somebody no, then when you tell them yes, it actually matters, right? It’s a good fit for them. Cause if that fit’s not right, it just doesn’t work. Now you’re behind the eight ball out of the gate.
Jim Carmichael (12:04)
Yeah, and you have to be in that position to be able… When people know you’re in that position, they know you’re not just trying to make a commission off of them. When you say, look, don’t buy that. That gives some trust, you know?Micah Johnson (12:15)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.I learned sales, I was first in insurance is how I got into sales originally. And the lady that taught me, she called it the takeaway. It’s the most powerful move in sales to build trust. Tell them that that’s not the one. That ain’t it. Like listen to what they actually want. And if what you have isn’t it, you will create a lifelong customer by telling them no. that kind of one, seeing it as a young 20 year old, like, holy cow, that’s a powerful move. And it really just takes the secret sauce of actually caring. That’s it.
actually care and you can create this business that you want in a way that fuels your life too outside of work. Doesn’t just make your bank account big. You teach your kids to be good people. You show them what it looks like to treat people well. It benefits everybody.
Jim Carmichael (13:05)
I, you know, we see our clients often. We had a client visit a couple weeks ago. We’re actually going next week to go visit one of our clients in Florida. We see each other, we break bread, you know, we hang out.Micah Johnson (13:18)
almost like a community inside the business itself. So gear it around that.Jim Carmichael (13:22)
for sure.Micah Johnson (13:23)
How does that work for sticking power? You said you’ve lost a few, but the customers you do have, they seem to stay around a long time when they’re a good fit.Jim Carmichael (13:29)
yeah. And even the ones that I’ve had to say, the ones that I’ve had to turn away have been usually related to the property management side, where it just, they wanted to do things on the cheap and it’s just not how we do things or for whatever reason that relationship wasn’t working out. We’ve still remained, we’ve still remained in a relationship with them to do other business, whether it’s, you they still buy and sell through me.Micah Johnson (13:53)
Wow, and that’s the benefit of having those multiple levers in your business for the sustainability. But also if someone’s not a good fit in this section, there’s still a good fit in this section, you don’t lose the bottom line money by not being able to still work with them.Jim Carmichael (13:58)
Yeah.Yeah, there’s very few people we’ve had to just flat out tell go away. don’t, you know, that’s not what we’re trying to do, you know, but, you know, if things aren’t a fit, we have turned down business. I’ve had people come to me and say, Hey, I’ve got a portfolio of these 30, you know, low end homes that I need management for. And this is how, you know, this is my business model. And I said, you know, that just isn’t a fit for us. We’re not going to do that.
Micah Johnson (14:11)
Hahahado. So you’re caring. I like about that is it’s not just the people you’re working with, it’s your team too. That there are also people because if you’re not setting them up to succeed and you mentioned it earlier that that issue was staffing, there was that time in the partnership where it was viable. And then once you were able to staff, having good people is one of the hardest things in business in general.
Jim Carmichael (14:40)
for sure.It is the biggest challenge and you go through, unfortunately, you’ll go through several people to find the fit. And we’ve been really fortunate. It’s taken us some time, but we have a really good staff right now. And hopefully.
Micah Johnson (15:07)
What’s been the,in your experience, what’s been that big challenge to get to that good staff? What was the, if you were gonna tell somebody, here’s what to look out for and even how to move faster through it, what would you say?
Jim Carmichael (15:19)
⁓ I’ll use a Gary V quote hiring is guessing firing is knowingMicah Johnson (15:23)
Mmm, okay.Jim Carmichael (16:05)
It’s hard to say. I’ve interviewed people that interview well, they look great on paper, and they come in here and it’s just a nightmare. And I’ve hired some people that I didn’t think were going to be very good, that turned out to be exceptional.Micah Johnson (16:18)
So it goes both sides.Jim Carmichael (16:20)
Yeah,you just never know.
Micah Johnson (16:22)
How would you say knowing your own core philosophy helps with that process?Jim Carmichael (16:26)
Give people a chance, give them that 90 days and you’ll know in 90 days if they’re fit. If they’re not, just believe me, nobody hates firing people more than me. It’s stressful.Micah Johnson (16:37)
the worst. It is man. It’shard because you didn’t start out that way. You didn’t think that’s how it was going to go because I love that Gary V quote, hiring’s guessing, firing’s knowing. And that’s that in my own experience of having to do it before, it is still actually caring because if it’s done correctly, it should move their life forward. You’re not letting them go because everything’s great. That’s not what we do typically in business.
Jim Carmichael (16:53)
yeah.Micah Johnson (17:02)
and it’s holding you back, your team back. There’s nothing that can spoil a good team like a bad hire. It kills morale quickly.Jim Carmichael (17:11)
And I haven’t fired anybody that didn’t know it was common. They knew. They knew.Micah Johnson (17:14)
Right? You typically do.I would agree with that. That’s very rarely is it blindsided.
Now, what have you been working on lately besides real estate? We were talking a little bit about a book before. What’s the name of that book and tell me a little bit about it.
Jim Carmichael (17:26)
We I just released a book called travel for success how to increase your productivity by getting out of town every six weeks ⁓ It’s something My my fiance and I we just we travel a lot I Noticed a few years ago. There’s a pattern to productivity before you leave for a trip and when you come back from a tripMicah Johnson (17:35)
Let’s dig into that.Jim Carmichael (17:48)
And it’s just like everybody gets ready for their family vacation, right? And you’ve got this to-do list. I have to finish X, Y, and Z before I leave. Well, when you apply that to your business, it’s the same thing. You become laser focused on all the high priority stuff that has to get done before you leave. You delegate what you have to to your staff or to somebody that can help you. And then all the B stuff gets pushed to when you get back.And everything that’s a B becomes an A when you get back. So you have these, and then plus when you’re gone, things happen that become a priority that following week. So really that following week stretching into that second week become very productive as well. So now all of a sudden I have three very, very, or two and a half to three very productive weeks where your time management gets better.
and you’re able to accomplish more just because you plan to leave. And even if it’s just take a three or four, know, start off slow, take a three day weekend, you know, take a work day off, get out of town and you have to lead up to that day off and you’ll find you’ll be more productive those few days before and then you just kind of increase it. So, you know, it’s pretty common. We have we have four meetings a year in Las Vegas, so we’re gone typically four to six days for that.
We have about 10 exchange meetings a year we travel to, among other things. So we’ve gotten this kind of system down to where we know kind of how to plan our week before, how to plan out our week after, and you just become hyperproductive. Your time management gets better.
And it’s a nice system, especially if you’d like to get out of town. And if you don’t, in any entrepreneur, especially in sales, burnout is easy. ⁓ You can only push for so long. You need a little relief to just exhale, take a deep breath, have a change of scenery, get a new perspective, come back to work fresh. And once you’ve…
Micah Johnson (19:22)
and that’s what we’re going to do.Mm-hmm.
Jim Carmichael (19:43)
Once you’ve got it down to where you’re used to leaving every six weeks, you’ll find yourself going to five weeks and then maybe four weeks. That’s what we do. We’ve gotten it down. We like to travel.Micah Johnson (19:52)
Transcend, but it’s, a fascinatingpattern from productivity to almost knowing there’s a light at the end of that tunnel where it’s like, I’m going to sprint for this long and then take this time off. Now, have you noticed it get easier to quote unquote, be off the longer you’ve done this? Cause I know a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with being off when they’re not at their business. It doesn’t mean their brain turns off. What have you done to help yourself there?
Jim Carmichael (20:15)
Well,yeah, turning your brain off is a challenge, but if you’re traveling with the intent to turn your brain off, can. You can get up in the morning.
Check your emails, make sure there’s nothing emergent that has to take place. Technology allows for a good percentage of your work can be done right from your phone. So if there is something urgent, you can take care of it. But for the most part, get up, take a walk on the beach. Don’t do anything. Relax a little bit. Have some breakfast, check your emails. Nothing emergent.
Micah Johnson (20:38)
Mm-hmm.Jim Carmichael (20:50)
Get your phone in your pocket if something comes up, otherwise just turn off.Micah Johnson (20:54)
One of the coaches I’ve worked with, name’s Dr. Jeff Spencer. He uses the terms implementation is when you’re in action and then receivership, whereas it’s those intentional moments where it is actually beneficial. Like you discover to turn it off. You do your best work if you learn how to turn off, which is not what most of us are taught in entrepreneurship world, that you just kind of crank that engine up and never stop.But if you don’t stop, you will burn out. That’s one thing he coaches with on. There’s a lot of men in their mid 40s and 50s that he works with on that very thing. They’ve worked for so long. Their tanks almost empty. There’s work. We’re getting close to physical issues happening at that point, because if you don’t hit the break at all, eventually you run out of gas every time.
Jim Carmichael (21:39)
For sure. Even on our business trips, we’ll leave a day early to go enjoy the town that we’re going to and turn off.Micah Johnson (21:47)
So even just as small as that in a day to something you’re already traveling to can have a good effect.Jim Carmichael (21:51)
Yeah, we’ve seen lots of shows in Vegas. We have four meetings a year there. So we’ve seen good shows, good hockey games, good restaurants.Micah Johnson (22:00)
Heck yeah.That’s my jam right there. Get to a good restaurant. There’s nothing like good food. That is an experience in itself. I will travel for that.
Jim Carmichael (22:10)
Weneed to get migrating.
Micah Johnson (22:12)
Well, Jim, I really appreciate the conversation, man. If someone wants to touch base with you, possibly work with you or get a copy of that book, what’s the best way to reach you?Jim Carmichael (22:20)
Probably go to jimcarmichael.com or my email address is 1031jcgmail.comMicah Johnson (22:25)
Excellent, excellent. Perfect, man. Well, I appreciate your time, your story, your perspective. I think we need more people in the space doing it like you’re doing it, especially that people over property mentality. I love that. If you enjoyed today’s conversation, please subscribe to the Real Estate Pros podcast. We’ve got more conversations coming up with folks just like Jim, who are creating real businesses in the real estate space. Thank you so much. We’ll see you on the next episode.Jim Carmichael (22:50)
Thank you.
