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Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros podcast, Terry Martin-Back shares his journey from a farm kid in Northern Indiana to a successful general contractor and real estate broker. He discusses the importance of having a solid business plan, understanding financials, and navigating the complexities of licensing in the real estate industry. Terry also emphasizes the value of education and mentorship in real estate investing, as well as insights into current market trends. Beyond his professional life, he shares his passion for cycling and writing, highlighting how these pursuits contribute to his overall well-being and success.
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Terry Martin-Back (00:00)
if all you do is go to work, come home, turn on the tube, have a few drinks, eat some unhealthy food, I tell people you’re in God’s waiting room. You’re just waiting to go. And that’s not us. We eat well, we live well, we play hard, and we have the opportunities that we take the opportunity to travel and do business and be with other healthy people out there.doing what we’re even at our senior age.
Kristen (02:05)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m Kristen and I’m here with Terry Martin Back, who is a general contractor, owner and broker associate of an Exit Realty franchise, combat veteran, author, amateur athlete. We have a lot here to talk about because he’s doing a lot. So thanks for being here, Terry. I’m really excited to get into your background. I mean, you have some really interesting stuff here. How about you give us sort of your background and how you got into this industry?Terry Martin-Back (02:22)
Thanks for having me.Well, it all come down as I grew
working. mean, I’m a farm kid from Northern Indiana. We learned our carpentry skills. We didn’t call people in to fix anything. We had to go out and fix it ourselves. And if our family wanted to build a house, well, we went out and we all built houses after work or on the weekends. From the time I can remember, I was with the family doing some type of construction. Went into the army.
And after Operation Desert Storm, I figured out there’s got to be a better way to make a living than getting shot at. So I went back to my old roots and started fixing up houses in the neighborhood around Fort Riley, Kansas, bought my first investment property in, actually it’s going to be my first flipper in Junction City, Kansas. And I wrote out an eight and a half by 11 on notebook paper.
of a business plan, took it to the bank and said, hey, this is my plan, this is what I’m going to do, I own a house, will you lend me the money? Well, they lend me the money and four months later, I was done with the house and I sold it. And I turned around and did it again and was still in the Army as an instructor the last two years I was in the Army. And one thing led to another as I got out of the Army and semi-retired in Georgia and…
was doing construction of flipping houses there and we decided that small town Georgia wasn’t for us. So we came back home to ⁓ Florida and started flipping houses again. And there’s another story for that too.
Kristen (04:09)
Well that’s amazing. mean it seemed like this was just kind of in your blood and to get back to it felt really natural. I want to touch on something you said which is you had your business plan on a sheet of paper. What kind of things did you put in that plan and what do you suggest for people starting out the things that they should be prepared for before they really jump into it?Terry Martin-Back (04:32)
If you’re going to be, you’re going to have to do your skills, whether you have financial skills or you have the physical skills to go in and do the work. You’re going to have to have your finances squared away and have at least a decent credit score. Put everything in line, all your assets when you’re going down. This is what I own. This is how much money I have. This is what I have in my house. ⁓ But put it all out there. Let them knowwhat your value is financially and also physically.
Also, you’re going to need to explain to them, if you don’t have the physical capabilities of going there and do the work, how are you going to do it? Do you already have subcontractors in line or handymen? And again, it’s letting them know that you know your numbers going in. If they don’t have the confidence in you that you don’t know what you’re doing, they’re not going to lend you any money. Whether you are going to an angel investor or you’re going to a lending institution, you’ve got to know your numbers.
and you got to know your physical capabilities.
Kristen (06:22)
Absolutely, and when you were kind of figuring that out, how did you even figure out what numbers you needed and how did you, you know, start that part?Terry Martin-Back (06:31)
Well, my wife is a very bright person and knows the accounting. So we sat down and we went over, what can we afford? Because if they’re gonna lend us the money, we still have to have money for a down payment. And we have to have the money to do the repairs on these homes. So obviously we had money in the bank account. We also have credit cards. We showed everybody how we can afford to do this. And we put together, I mean, this wasn’t all me.Kristen (06:36)
Mm.Terry Martin-Back (07:01)
This is a team effort, still a team effort.Kristen (07:04)
Yeah, I mean it’s good advice. If you’re stuck, ask your wife. It’s a good lesson to have. So tell us about, so then you started flipping again after you moved. Tell us more about that.Terry Martin-Back (07:16)
⁓ getting, you know, when Kansas, I was a contractor. I did work for the city of Junction City. In Georgia, I was doing a lot of remodeling. I was a contractor in Georgia. And into Columbus and going to Atlanta area, did some superintendent for a commercial project for a while. ⁓ We bought a house in Greenville, Georgia, a post southern Victorian southern home that my kids come down and help me work on that. And we worked on that seven days a week for six months.and I was flipping houses. Like I said, I got tired of small town Georgia. It just wasn’t, didn’t fit for us. So we came back to Gainesville, Florida and ⁓ bought a home and I started flipping houses again. And what happened is I didn’t need a lot of real licensing in these other States, but in Florida you have to have a contractor’s license. And I was on one of my project flips.
and I had already re-roofed the house myself. I changed the windows, I painted it, and now I’m working on the inside. I’m redoing the kitchen, taking all the kitchen cabinets out and setting them up by the street so somebody wanted to salvage them. And all of a sudden there was a knock on the door and it was a building inspector. And he comes up and he goes, do you own this house? I’m like, yeah. He says, do you live here? And I go, no.
Kristen (08:32)
no.Terry Martin-Back (08:42)
He says, what are you gonna do with it? You gonna sell it? Yeah. He says, do you have a contractor’s license? No. He says, you know, you need to be a contractor in order to do this. I said, okay, I’ll go get my license. And he laughed at me. Most people don’t know that in Florida, it’s the second most difficult state to get your license, only second to California. I had to take weekend courses to learn how to take the test.Kristen (09:05)
no.Wow.
Terry Martin-Back (09:11)
Soanyway, over the course of about four months, I studied and applied for my license and took the took the test, a two day, eight hour open book test to get my contractor’s license. And I passed. And the funny thing was is that, you know, I pulled a permit on one of my flippers and who should be the inspector to come by?
Kristen (09:25)
Wow. That’s incredible.Same guy.
Terry Martin-Back (09:39)
Youdon’t laugh at me because if you laugh, I’m gonna do exactly what you think I can’t do.
Kristen (09:44)
Yeah, wow, that’s a good story. So were you able to work on the house in that four month period?Terry Martin-Back (09:52)
I was done on the outside. Everything on the outside was already done. All I had to do was, because here in Florida,you can go in and you can do all the improvements. I can change interior doors. I can paint. I put cabinets, know, and fixtures in. So, but what was funny is I had already done all the stuff on the outside that needed to be permitted. He didn’t say anything. like, missed that bullet.
Kristen (10:47)
Yeah.Have you ever had that happen again where someone asks you if you have the contracting license?
Terry Martin-Back (10:55)
After you’re in the building industry, people become aware of what you’re doing and they know, made friends with a lotlocal building inspectors and they knew when they come on my site, it was, they’d pull up and they’d go, I knew this was you. And a lot of times it was just conversation. We’re walking around, they’re looking, taking a look at what my subs have done or what I’ve done. And it was an easy transition once I developed relationships with some of these building inspectors.
Kristen (11:24)
And what drew you to the fix and flips rather than maybe long-term, short-term rentals?Terry Martin-Back (11:32)
Yeah, building, building homes, I always wanted to, but it was so much easier. I could walk into a POS, a profit oriented speculative property, and I could look at it and I could see what it could become. And it was always going to be a fast, fast project. think, you know, when I first started flipping houses, everything was all hand nails, the little miter box with your saws. And suddenly after I’m doing that, IIncreased it with power tools and you know pneumatic nailers and I could turn these houses so much faster and it was just when you get in there you’re working every day and you can just see the results of your work and you can step back at the end of the day and go I did that it’s so rewarding.
Kristen (12:18)
Right.Yeah, it’s that tangible thing that you can work towards. That’s awesome. And then you have since, I mean, you’re doing property management and Brokers Associate. Tell us how you kind of expanded into all that.
Terry Martin-Back (12:33)
Well, for a while after I was growing my business, kind of bought into another small real estate company who was doing the community association management and property management and sales. ⁓ I had my contractor’s license. I had a small crew and we were doing a lot of repairs and I was still flipping houses at the same time. And I had an agent inside our office that I gave all the business to.And anyway, I come in and I would flip a house and he would basically do the closings, but he wasn’t there for the inspections because I was always there. And I come in one day and I go, hey, listen, we got to negotiate these contracts. You know, commission’s too high. And he goes, ⁓ no, Terry, I don’t negotiate commissions. OK, so I got my real estate license. So I guess no commission is better than a negotiated commission.
Kristen (13:29)
Yeah. ⁓Terry Martin-Back (13:30)
So I wasdoing all the listing and all that. And then later on, ⁓ this is when the height of the real estate ⁓ market was growing. And they took on a broker to manage all these agents. And I’d just done a couple flips and he come in on a Monday and he goes, I need to talk to you. I’m like, okay. He goes in, shuts the door and he goes, you know what? I don’t care what you do with your money. You’re not gonna mess with mine. This no commission isn’t gonna work for me anymore. And I’m like, okay.
So my wife and I got our broker’s license and started our independent ⁓ real estate company. Basically, I mean, we were doing sales, we had a couple agents, but it was property management. That was the key. It was steady income. We had customers that had been, that my wife had been working for several years. And then we had the opportunity to merge our company into exit realty. And then right at the time that the
bottom of the market fell out. And the broker at that time was having some issues and she was about to lose the franchise. And we took over the exit realty franchise at the height of the recession. And if we hadn’t had property management, we wouldn’t have made it. It was that tight. I wasn’t building anything. There was no remodels. I was ⁓ doing some clean outs for banks and getting
doing whatever I could to bring cash in to keep the business going. But as it grew, things slowed down, the short sales come through, ⁓ property management started picking up. That’s when I started training people on how to invest in the properties and the buy and hold. That’s why I encourage people to do buy and hold. Flipping’s fast money, but it’s gonna be fast taxes at the end of the year too. So it was the educational and property management.
Kristen (16:05)
Yeah.Terry Martin-Back (16:10)
And the next thing you know, people from associations called my wife and say, are you interested in managing our association? And we took over a couple of associations where the cam had actually stole the money from them and got caught. she got to spend some time in Florida’s correctional system. She was a guest to the state for a few years. And from that…Another company here, another association here, we have people refer us because they know our reputation in business and one thing leads to another and business grows.
Kristen (16:47)
Yeah, that’s amazing and it’s awesome that you’re able to kind of transition into a coaching teaching role where you get to help other people. That must be very fulfilling.Terry Martin-Back (16:58)
Well, it’s a lot of the people, have the idea. They’ve watched the videos on YouTube and all these other, and some of these other coaching programs where it was all working on the Get Rich Quick. they’re spending thousands of dollars on this coaching. And we had one person that come in and he had attended coaching and he had spent over $10,000 on wholesale marketing and he has yet to make a deal. I didn’t know what to say.But bring them in there. It’s taking people and educate them on the value of knowing your numbers, know what to look at, what is the price, and keep updating your numbers because as we know over the last, since COVID, prices have gone out of sight. And if you don’t keep up with those and you go into a house, condo, and flip it, you may walk away when you go to the closing table and taking your checkbook with you.
So that’s the biggest thing that I feared and teaching them how to avoid doing that.
Kristen (18:00)
Right, and probably just keeping an eye on the market and understanding the shifts. I’m sure you’ve seen the ups and downs over the years. In general, what are you seeing with the market now? Like, how do you advise people?Terry Martin-Back (18:14)
Well, the market’s stabilizing. It’s getting back to where it should be. Instead of putting a sign in the yard and 10 minutes later, you have 15 offers. If it’s priced right and it’s in the right location in good condition, you can get an offer within 30 days. But price, condition, location means everything in the world. We tried to tell people just because you need a lot of money doesn’t increase the value of the home orJust because you put bright, bright and shiny ⁓ plumbing fixtures in there doesn’t increase the price of the home. It’s price, condition, location. ⁓ Prices are stabilizing. Again, people are, I think they’re a little leery of the interest rates. They’re a little scary. I know we just had a quarter percent drop here this ⁓ past week, but in some cases, some of the mortgage lending, the interest rate went up, even though the margins dropped down. ⁓
Right now, we’re in the time where the government shut down, so we’re not getting the FHA, the VA, USDA. So those who are waiting for those, it’s not a good time for them. But other than that, some of the rural properties are selling well. I call that low end, the low end properties, know, under 200,000, low end 200,000 scares me.
But if you’ve got a price right now, if you’ve got a home that’s under 250 and it’s in good shape, gone. Just like that.
Kristen (19:49)
Wow, yeah, there’s a lot of unpredictability and kind of some unknown variables going on right now for sure. ⁓ Yeah, to shift gears just a little bit, you know, we have about five minutes left. I would love for you to talk about you have such a full life outside of ⁓ just your business life. And I would love to talk about that and how kind of having passions outside of work helps you be more efficient and effective when you work.Terry Martin-Back (20:17)
Mm Go ahead.Kristen (20:19)
Tell me a little bit more aboutthat. mean, you’re a cyclist, is really, I mean, he has cycled from San Diego to Florida, which is so impressive. So yeah, just talk a little bit about how those passions have
you through even your business.
Terry Martin-Back (20:36)
Well, I went to my physical at the VA. I was 62 years old. And I got to see the, when you first check in, they go through and they mark me down as obese. And I was going to be the average typical male out there, settling into senior life. And it hit me. And like, how did I let this happen to me? So I started, I weighed almost 240 pounds and started walking andThen I was doing intervals, walking, running. Then I started running. And I found a bike in one of the properties that we were managing. People just left this nice Bianchi bike and it was, I couldn’t believe it. You just walk away from an expensive bicycle like that. And I spent over $300 to get that bike in riding condition, not knowing that I could have probably gone down to the bike shop and bought it for 150 bucks.
Kristen (21:33)
Yeah.Terry Martin-Back (21:34)
started started riding the first time. I hadn’t ridden a bike in 40 years and rode around our neighborhood about two and a half miles and stopped at the end of the driveway and thank God I had the bike to hold me up. My legs were shaking so bad I couldn’t handle it. Then met with some other folks who rode and they encouraged me and they I did I started out at two and went to six and then I did a 22 mile ride and then three months after I started ridingSome friends and I rode 85 miles from Gainesville to Crescent Beach and that about killed me. And then turned around, took us eight hours to do that. And then turned around four months later and did it in six hours. And I just keep riding and change bikes and change bikes. And then I go from just riding to competing in duathlons. I do senior games time trials.
Kristen (22:11)
Yeah.Terry Martin-Back (22:34)
Again, I rode from San Diego to Florida, seven and a half weeks to get across country. And this New Year’s, my wife and I, we’re gonna be riding from the East Coast of Florida to the West Coast of Florida, 50 miles a day, 200 miles. And we got friends that are joining us. So it’s a great atmosphere when you’re around healthy people.It gives you, it keeps you motivated. And it’s like I said, I’d never thought about doing half marathons. I did my first half marathon at 65 and have done several of those. And it’s just competition. You just gotta have something to wake up in the morning saying, okay, I’ve gotta get in my trainer, on my bike trainer. I’ve gotta get on the treadmill, excuse me, treadmill and do my time there. And it’s just one thing. You gotta have a goal. You gotta keep shooting for that goal.
Kristen (23:04)
Totally.Terry Martin-Back (23:30)
next competition, the next ride. And that just keeps me motivated. And my other passion is writing. I’ve got books on Amazon. ⁓ Some of the self-help books for properties, but my passion is writing thrillers and horror. That’s so much fun. And they’re short stories. And it’s just using my imagination and right now I’m AI and assisting that and editing. And it’s just fun.Kristen (23:35)
Hopefully.Yeah, I mean it’s so great because I do feel like if you really pigeonhole yourself just into work you kind of you can start to resent it and allowing yourself to have outside passions and outside goals and competition I think it just helps you in general not burn out.
Terry Martin-Back (24:18)
Wow, andif all you do is go to work, come home, turn on the tube, have a few drinks, eat some unhealthy food, I tell people you’re in God’s waiting room. You’re just waiting to go. And that’s not us. We eat well, we live well, we play hard, and we have the opportunities that we take the opportunity to travel and do business and be with other healthy people out there.
doing what we’re even at our senior age.
Kristen (24:52)
Yeah, amazing. Well, I think that’s such a good note to end on. Thank you so much. You have great insight to share from your really impressive career. So tell everybody where to find you and how to work with you.Terry Martin-Back (25:05)
⁓ You can find us at exitrealtyproducers.com. If you’re interested to see about my rides across country, it’s terrymartinback.com. And you can find any of my books at Terry Martin Back at Amazon. My editor’s page is Terry Martin Back. Terry Martin Back editor’s page on Amazon. And I look forward to scanning through my books, whether on Kindle or their paperback. ⁓And if you want some more information about how to assist soldiers, my passion is helping soldiers get over PTSD and stop then, you know, reduce veteran suicide. That’s deep in my heart. Those are my brothers and sisters who served and it’s scary out there.
Kristen (25:48)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that’s such a wonderful cause to pay attention to. So thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it, Terry.Terry Martin-Back (25:58)
Been apleasure. Thank you for asking me.
Kristen (26:01)
And thank you everybody for listening. Hope you got some inspiration for your own business. Learned a lot and we will see you back next time. Bye.
