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Show Summary
In this conversation, Keith Pinder discusses his extensive experience in the financial markets and real estate investment. He emphasizes the importance of understanding real estate as an investment tool and the need for a holistic approach to client needs. Keith shares insights on navigating the complexities of the real estate market, the significance of fiduciary responsibility, and his journey from hedge funds to managing capital for qualified investors. He also highlights the misconceptions surrounding real estate and the importance of context in investment decisions.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Keith Pinder (00:00)
I would tell any investor, you know, look at where you are now. Create a realistic plan. How much money I’m gonna make.And most people will tell you, and I’ve heard this all the time, right? People say, I wanna make 15 to 20,000, I got 100,000, right? And I say, fair
Why don’t you go into a real estate investment trust? Learn, because what happens is with a real estate investment trust, most people look at the markets, you know, most…
People look at the markets and they say, I don’t want to buy security. Don’t they rip you off? Well, it’s the best way really to understand the market. So I tell them, say, okay, first of all, a real estate investment trust is structured as a fund, okay, is going to pay out a yield. If you get a really cost effective real estate investment trust, you can get it at a low cost.
Quentin (02:34)
Hello everyone. Welcome the Real Estate Pros podcast. I am your host Q Edmonds. And yes, I am excited. I’m going tell you right now, you about to get a wealth of knowledge. You are about to get nuggets on top of nuggets. And so I am so happy to have with us today, Mr. Keith Pinder. This gentleman, listen, he’s going to help you talk. He’s going to talk about maximizing and leveraging your investments, right?have a holistic approach to the way that they do things they love to educate. And so, again, I’m excited for you guys to hear from Mr. Keith Pinder. Mr. Pinder, how are you doing today,
Keith Pinder (03:13)
I’m good, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it, thank you very much for that intro. ⁓ I couldn’t do that better myself, thank you.Quentin (03:20)
That’s good to hear, because man, I’m already impressed with you and what you do. I’m sure our viewers are going to be impressed. And so I kind of want to scale back my voice and I kind of want to give you the floor. So if you don’t mind, take us through maybe a little bit how you got started, maybe a little bit why you got started. Like take us into your world. What do you mainly focus on these days? ⁓Keith Pinder (03:46)
Right, so it’s funny, like the word you use is a holistic approach, right? And so a lot of times when we look at real estate investing, ⁓ we forget the second word to that is investing, right? And I think that ⁓ for us, what we focus on specifically is value, how to leverage value. So I’m gonna get into that real quick. ⁓ I’m trying to…I’ll give you a 50,000 foot overview of where I came from and what brought me to this. I’ll try to condition the best way I can. Started in the investment world about 2003. Started at a hedge fund, smiling and dialing. Most people know what that is if you’re over 40. And basically, talked to a lot of wealthy people and soliciting them the stocks in the wild cowboy days. And we made a lot of money. so I had someone, part of the firm,
come to say, hey, let’s start taking these companies, these small cap companies public abroad. You talk about China, Israel, Germany, things of that nature. And since we started doing that, and when we started doing that, we started, that’s more of a investment banking dynamic, right? So there’s reverse mergers, blank check deals, direct listings and things of that nature. And we started doing that and was
very, very lucrative. And what I saw it was that
there was a bridge between companies that could sustain the proper capital to increase their value, right? In the small cap, micro cap space. So I created a company to help them do that, which was Landing Capital. And then that’s in the IR capacity. And what we do with Landing Capital is that we help these companies, these small micro cap companies increase their market capitalization by bringing more investors to
that company. So the company comes to us, we put a holistic approach around them, sell side, buy side, non-deal road show, and the whole nine. And we help the company create a larger sense of credibility to the investment public. Again, we’re talking about value, we’re accentuating value. And so when the investor sees that, they say, okay, they have a real company, they have a real investment thesis.
They have a real approach to a need. I like it. Let me invest in it. And so we’ve been very blessed with Land & Capital to increase. 85 % of the companies we’ve represented over the last eight years have increased over 100%. And so, and these companies are, we’re agnostic when it comes to companies we represent. So when you look at that,
We’ve had a lot of clients or investors from these companies come to us and say, hey, we got money. got, you know, what else do you have? We want you to help us manage. Well, you know what you’re doing. You know your way around the market. You’ve been very, very, ⁓ you know, ⁓ pivotal in helping us, you know, sustain growth. How can we give you some money? And so, you know, I was reluctant.
Quentin (07:31)
YeahKeith Pinder (07:50)
for years to say, okay, let me create a retail firm. And what I mean by retail is like, an institution to consumer from an investment standpoint. I was reluctant until my wife came to me and she said, look, I’m liquidating this stock. What do I do with it? I love real estate. How can I leverage it? I like this properties and we live in Atlanta.So, you know, obviously, you know, my office is in Atlanta and New York, and I’m looking at the property value in New York decreasing in the city, in Manhattan. I’m looking at Atlanta is increasing. I’m looking at the influx of traffic between, you know, in the South. And I’m like, there’s a lot of meat here, and people keep coming to me. So, a year ago, we started Thomas and Thomas Investment Group, right? And so,
Thomas and Thomas Investment Group, and now we’re getting to the meat and potatoes of it. Thomas and Thomas Investment Group, our focus and our advisors’ focus is to, again, ⁓ I state this, is to put a holistic approach around investing. And what I’ve seen, and it’s a little interesting that in the market I’ve seen people say, okay, well, go in commercial and go in retail and…
⁓ Your rent houses, Airbnb and all these things and you see a group of people rush to it. But what you also see is the kickback responses of the videos and the horror stories of people saying, hey, I leased to this person and they flooded my building or, you know, I don’t in certain states, New Jersey and New York, they’re more tenant friendly. And, you know, it took me eight years or three years to get this person out of here and I’ve been losing money. And so
You’ve seen the horror stories of people destroying properties and Airbnb’s have cutting back. And so, you know, there’s not a one size fit all for real estate investing. so again,
I say this, you know, we go back to value. know, money is a byproduct of what value is. And so when we bring our clients in, you know, our investors,
Quentin (10:37)
Yeah.Keith Pinder (10:47)
excuse me. Our advisors are geared towards understanding what is the investor profile, right? You know, let’s say hypothetically speaking, you have a mom is a teacher. The dad is a plumber. Collectively, they’re bringing in 200,000 a year. Okay. Now we would say that’s a lot of money, but in hindsight, it depends on what mark you live in. Let’s say they live in Washington, DC, right?And we all know Washington DC is really expensive to live in. And we’re saying, and we’re advising them on, hey, what’s the best approach? And let’s say they don’t know, they’re currently renting a very high rent apartment or townhome. And we’re advising them and saying, you know, look, they come to us and say, hey, we want to know about investing.
How can we learn about investing and we wanna invest in the market? Well, my first approach to them is, hey, okay, what’s your time horizon? What are you looking to make? How much are you looking to make? Because you have to extract the information to be able to put a plan in place. So that’s the first thing.
I would tell any investor, you know, look at where you are now. Create a realistic plan. How much money I’m gonna make.
And most people will tell you, and I’ve heard this all the time, right? People say, I wanna make 15 to 20,000, I got 100,000, right? And I say, fair enough. Why don’t you go into a real estate investment trust? Learn, because what happens is with a real estate investment trust, most people look at the markets, you know, most…
People look at the markets and they say, I don’t want to buy security. Don’t they rip you off? Well, it’s the best way really to understand the market. So I tell them, say, okay, first of all, a real estate investment trust is structured as a fund, okay, is going to pay out a yield. If you get a really cost effective real estate investment trust, you can get it at a low cost.
There’s a thing called a discount to the NAV. That’s a net.
Asset value so you want to find a fund that has a discount to the net asset value Okay, that is very important so if you find a real estate investment trust that has a discount to the net asset value And you say okay great is also gonna come also come with a yield You want to find those with a high yield? Okay, so then you got two things you’re looking for we’re looking for for this this couple hypothetically
Quentin (13:38)
youKeith Pinder (13:38)
a fundwith a relatively net asset value and a high yield. Let’s say this couple was giving you $100,000 and they say, I wanna make 20,000 a year, 15 to 20,000. Well, if you find a real estate investment trust is gonna pay you out a 15 % yield, annualize, you’re instantly making money without even moving money. Now here’s the beautiful thing about that.
Quentin (13:42)
ThankKeith Pinder (14:08)
Right? What most people don’t understand. So the first thing I’m gonna do is I’m gonna say, why am I gonna invest in a real estate investment trust in the market is the first thing I’m gonna do to let my clients understand what real estate is about. Well, because you earn while you learn.and you can leverage that investment. What do I mean? Once you take and you put that 100,000 into that brokerage account, you’re earning a 15 % right yield. So you’re earning annualized 15 % on 100,000. So you’re making money. What in that asset value, the discounts in that asset value gonna help you because if let’s say if that that REIT is at $15, it’s gonna increase in value.
because you’re discounted that asset value. So, I mean, that’s undervalued. That’s an undervalued equity. So, as it continue to trade, it’s gonna increase in value, not decrease, okay?
So, now you’re saying that. So, you’re gonna get money off the increase of the price. You’re gonna get money on the actual yield, and guess what else? You may say, Keith, you know what? I don’t have any free cash. You don’t need free cash, because now,
you can borrow off that equity. So now you can borrow off that equity. So hypothetically speaking, you can borrow 50 % off the equity. So now your investment doesn’t move. You’re not moving it to get taxed. Now you’re borrowing it. So that’s a cost. Now I’m not a tax attorney, but you can actually associate it with a cost on your next, you know.
⁓ Tax year, right? And so now you’re taking that money you just borrowed off an asset now. Now you can take that money and put it down for your new place or that new build, right? Now, I’ll stop right there, right? What did this couple learn? Hypothetically, this hypothetical couple, what did they learn? They learned about a real estate investment trust. They learned about what they do.
how they do it, they learned a little bit more about the market, they watched their money grow, they did not have any barrier to entry. There was no growing pains, right? They didn’t have to pay much, they just took their money and set it somewhere, okay? Why is that good? Because most people will go and buy a piece of property and they have to, you know, cost, right?
You have the permits, you have the builders, you have material, you have all these things. So we advise our clients to stay away from that stuff from your first go around. We want you to make money. We want you to be happy, right? Because doing something from a standpoint of power is better than doing it from a standpoint of desperation, right? So now, so you can go to, you can go to, now you have the power of borrowing, right?
Quentin (17:50)
Yeah.Keith Pinder (18:00)
The banks know the money is there. It’s not going anywhere. Now, we go forward. How would I advise that person, and we’ve done this before, how would I advise that couple now to buy in the market? Let’s say hypothetically speaking, they ⁓ live in DC. Well, what should we buy, Keith? Emerging growth markets. I like Orlando. No one’s talking about it. I like Orlando. I like downtown Orlando.I like the outskirts of downtown Orlando. I like Atlanta. And what no one’s talking about, everyone’s talking about the city of Atlanta. Well, guess what? There’s a new stadium that the Braves did called Truist, I think it’s called Truist Park, but it’s in Cobb County. In that county, there’s a lot of, and that’s understanding different demographics, right? You have to do your research. And I’ll always implore,
Quentin (18:56)
Thank you.Keith Pinder (18:58)
people in real estate to do your research in different emerging growth markets. ⁓ I like San Francisco at this point. I like LA. I don’t like the taxes, but I like San Francisco. ⁓ I love starving markets. I love New York right now. ⁓ Manhattan is a great, is a golden era right now when you talk about geopolitical issues also brings ⁓ value there. So we’ll talk about that. So I’ll go into Atlanta.What happens is, and people are talking about it, but you gotta understand how to leverage it. So we talk about tax write-off, right? The tax ⁓ properties, right? You know, I tell people, there’s currently a mall in Kennesaw, Georgia, that’s just sitting there. It’s about to go on auction. I’m telling you, as we speak, there’s a mall in Kennesaw, Georgia, it’s about to go on auction. There’s a ⁓ company in New York that owns it.
that can get a five acres lance with pennies in the dollar.
They’re gonna auction off for a million dollars. ⁓ The reality of it is you can get a property like that at ⁓ retail costs about $16, $17 million. What you could do with that is basically go and get a tax property. can go to the auction. Cobb County is one of those counties. You can go to the courthouse. You can find out where they have sanctions on these properties, commercial properties, and where these properties own a crap.
to the taxes. You can essentially, very simple, not nothing complicated, and we advise our clients to do this. Scrub the property, find the owner, and say, hey, look, you owe this in taxes, I could actually pay it, I wanna get this property from you, would you actually lease it? The person’s gonna be free and clear. They ain’t gonna pay taxes. You’re gonna pay it for them, you want them to sign over the property.
Quentin (20:49)
Thank you.Keith Pinder (21:00)
Nine times out of 10, if you do a property, I’ve seen it done a lot of times, they’re gonna do it. You take that property, what are you gonna do? You’re gonna then take a loan, that property has value. You can leverage that property. Now you’ve earned money off that property and the money you probably didn’t even pay. In some instances, when a property is valued at, let’s say 500,000.people taking a loan off that property, they didn’t pay the 500,000, right? So you automatically earn income. You can take that, put that back in the market. You know, I’ll stop there, but that is one way that the average family can make a lot of money
Quentin (21:45)
like I said, I thank you so much, man, for taking us into your world. I thank you for the nuggets that you drop. Listen, if someone wanted to reach out to you or connect with you, what’s the best way for them to reach out to you,Keith Pinder (21:57)
Yeah, so you know it is very easy. can go to you can email me at kpinder at thomasthomas.investments. ⁓ know we’re also Thomas and Thomas has a presence on LinkedIn so you can go to thomasthomas.investments. can go to the website. ⁓ Our our our emails there. ⁓ You know again we have the series 65 advisors. License advisors. ⁓equipped to handle you. But yeah, that’s the best way. But again, I thank you for your time. I know we talked a lot about how we can leverage simple assets, but there’s a lot more to that. But I think I appreciate you taking the time, listening. Alternative ways of retail ⁓ investors can really take a simple approach to understanding
⁓ The investment market, you know, I want to say this real quick, you know the Dow Jones diversified reads ⁓ Just like the Dow Jones, right? The ticker is DJ us Dt so I say that again DJ us Dt has consistently gone up since You know, you know Three years if you look at a three-year ⁓
chart is gone up. know, rates, interest rates gone down, know, interest rates has gone down 25 basis points. I predicted interest rates would go down again before December or by December, another 25 basis points. You know, the mortgage industry, the housing industry is on a 31 year low. Okay. When we talk about where we are right now, materials at an all time high.
Right now is a great time to buy. Okay. as a great time to buy, whether you’re buying an open market or you buying, ⁓ you know, hard, if you’re buying a hard asset or you’re buying liquidity, ⁓ it’s a great time to buy. I will tell you this, you know, there’s so many opportunities out there in the market for you to earn real money. My last thought is for anyone who investing in the market, always negotiate.
Everything is negotiable, right? And I will negotiate to the highest letter. So that’s just my two cents.
Quentin (24:37)
Awesome, Mr. Pinder, thank you so much, man. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your story. Thank you for the nuggets that you’ve dropped and added value to this platform. We really, really appreciate you being here. Thank you so much.Keith Pinder (24:50)
Man, thank you very much. You guys enjoy the rest of your day.Quentin (24:54)
Absolutely.And to everyone else, thank you so much for joining. You know what you gotta do if you have not done it already. Please make sure you are subscribed. You do not want to miss out on these amazing conversations. So Mr. Pinder, thank you again. And to everyone else, we’ll see you on the next time.
