Short-Term Rental Investing Strategies to Stand Out in 2025

Leslie Sonnier (00:00)
But it’s a, well at the time, 250,000 if you can believe it. Oh my goodness gracious, I wish we would have bought 100 of them back then, right?

And what’s your guess? Which one did better? Get it inside, Badass Backyard.

Erika (00:10)
I’m going to guess the backyard, but there might be a little bias there.

Leslie Sonnier (00:13)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously. And when you think about it, right, it’s like we’re catering to the traveler, right? If we were catering to long-term tenants, probably the house that was more renovated and everything would be more of a draw, right? But when we decked it out and made it really fun and we’re catering to the traveler, the house with the decked out backyard spending half the amount of did about 15 % returns higher.

the following year and that many more bookings. The other did increase but only about 5%. So it was those kinds of things that, well, and obviously things have changed now. Now you have to have a pool and a hot tub and a, a, and a, and a, And that at home is now that has a four market countertops finally upgraded just last year. But gosh darn it, that stinking house didn’t do a hundred grand a year back in the day, even with four market countertops. So go figure, right? ⁓

Erika (01:06)
Yeah,

Leslie Sonnier (01:07)
Thank you.

Erika (01:08)
yeah, and you know, the market has become so competitive now. So all these observations that you are making and all the ways that you are modifying and improving these properties, I’m sure are helping you stand out. What other kind of advice would you give to someone when it comes to being competitive in the market?

Leslie Sonnier (01:28)
If you look at the houses that are for sale right now that are obviously short-term rentals, the thing that I noticed the most is that for the most part, I’m not saying all of them, but for the most part, my guess why they’re selling is that they did not spend the money to design to the experience.

Erika (03:17)
Hey everyone, welcome to the Real Estate Pro Show. I’m your host, Erika, and today I’m thrilled to be joined by Leslie Sonnier. She’s shaken things up in the short-term rental space with her innovative approach to hospitality. Leslie, it’s so awesome to have you on the show.

Leslie Sonnier (03:34)
Thank you, Erika, appreciate it.

Erika (03:36)
Yeah, I’m really excited for what you have to share. So let’s just jump on in. Can you tell us more about your journey? How did you get into real estate?

Leslie Sonnier (03:46)
Yeah, so I’ve been in the hospitality space since after college, traveling for a year and got the travel bug. And so that’s the hospitality piece of the real estate business, I guess you can say. And then I happened into the short-term rental space with my own personal home. Early 2014, I was at, I took a sabbatical for two months to go travel with good friends of mine from Austin and…

said, oh I’m renting out my condo on this newer site called Airbnb. Have you ever heard of it before? And I was like, oh isn’t that the Air Mattress Company? And I was like, oh that’s a little bit different, but you can have Air Mattresses I guess if you want to. And yeah, that started my house, my personal house was the 20th listing on Airbnb in the Scottsdale area ever. And to put things in perspective, there’s now over 6,000 of them.

I just kind of happened to get in on the ground up by accident and that’s kind how it started the journey a long time ago.

Erika (04:46)
That’s such a cool origin story and bad. It’s just hard to think of a time that there were so few Airbnb Airbnb listings, you know?

Leslie Sonnier (04:55)
Yes, it still kind of blows my mind because that was only 11 years ago. It wasn’t that long ago. ⁓

Erika (05:02)
Yeah, things

have really changed since then. What was the moment for you that got you hooked, that you knew this was your lane?

Leslie Sonnier (05:11)
It took a, it was a period of time, about two years honestly, that I still had my full-time job and I was doing this kind of like for fun. But my family, my family and I did some really fun tests with a couple of houses that they purchased. And we, and I was able to keep some really cool stats really early on.

⁓ of like, well if we decided a hot tub to this property, this four bedroom and not to this four bedroom, what happens to returns? How do we, how long does it take to pay this back? What if we added a putting green to this one and not to this one, what happens? And with one of them, the most interesting one is we had two four bedroom houses, One, my house, my investment property, I gutted the inside, okay?

And raised the ceiling took away walls opened it up all new All new appliances all new everything. Okay? Kept the pool it had a pool in a hot tub in the backyard, but that was it Okay, the other house my parents don’t really right around the corner. That was a four-bedroom to that house We kept the Formica countertops. Okay kept the kitchen as is Didn’t move any walls. It was very choppy. Okay, but in the backyard

spent 25 grand decking it out, putting a gigantic barn grill and a fire pit and some designs that I found in the backyard and backyards on Houzz. Remember that app? I don’t even know if they’re around anymore. We’re like, how do we make this look like one of those $10 million houses? But it’s a, well at the time, 250,000 if you can believe it. Oh my goodness gracious, I wish we would have bought 100 of them back then, right?

And what’s your guess? Which one did better? Get it inside, Badass Backyard.

Erika (06:52)
I’m going to guess the backyard, but there might be a little bias there.

Leslie Sonnier (06:56)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously. And when you think about it, right, it’s like we’re catering to the traveler, right? If we were catering to long-term tenants, probably the house that was more renovated and everything would be more of a draw, right? But when we decked it out and made it really fun and we’re catering to the traveler, the house with the decked out backyard spending half the amount of did about 15 % returns higher.

the following year and that many more bookings. The other did increase but only about 5%. So it was those kinds of things that, well, and obviously things have changed now. Now you have to have a pool and a hot tub and a, a, and a, and a, And that at home is now that has a four market countertops finally upgraded just last year. But gosh darn it, that stinking house didn’t do a hundred grand a year back in the day, even with four market countertops. So go figure, right? ⁓

Erika (07:48)
Yeah,

Leslie Sonnier (07:49)
Thank you.

Erika (07:50)
yeah, and you know, the market has become so competitive now. So all these observations that you are making and all the ways that you are modifying and improving these properties, I’m sure are helping you stand out. What other kind of advice would you give to someone when it comes to being competitive in the market?

Leslie Sonnier (08:58)
If you look at the houses that are for sale right now that are obviously short-term rentals, the thing that I noticed the most is that for the most part, I’m not saying all of them, but for the most part, my guess why they’re selling is that they did not spend the money to design to the experience. They have grandma’s furniture in it still. They don’t have the…

the Instagram-worthy walls. It clearly was not professionally designed. And so when people are making choices about their vacations, one, by the photos and the appealing of the eye, or they have crappy photos. I mean, just something as simple as that can make all the difference in the world for our space when that’s how people are really choosing where they’re going to stay before they start looking at descriptions and things like that. So number one is

⁓ is designing to the experience is the number one. I believe also in one of the things that in the second time around, now that I’m recreating the business, we’re gonna be creating experiences while people are actually at the home that they get for free. So as an example, I have a seven year old and he would love to play at all times. And so we’re gonna have a series of homes that have

that have a treasure hunt in them. So when families book my homes, they get the treasure hunt for free. And they get all those fun pictures and things like that. there’s some other interesting ideas that we’re rolling out to test out and stuff. But man, if I can make the homes not just a home that they’re renting, but an experience, that’s what I’m really looking forward to.

Erika (10:28)
Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense how it could be such a game changer. you know, for someone who’s new to this, how do you decide what type of design choices that add the experiences to put in a home? What is that process like?

Leslie Sonnier (10:42)
frankly, hire professional. There’s plenty of short-term rental professionals, and there’s some good ones, there’s some not good ones, but you can tell by their photos and by how they operate their business and what their pricing and stuff looks like. The one key I would say is there’s the questions that you need to ask the design team are, do I get your wholesale pricing or do you upcharge the wholesale pricing?

That’s the number one key because most design companies, they go to trade shows and get wholesale items. But if they’re charging a design fee plus they’re charging an upcharge, then they’re making a lot more money. You’re not getting as good of a value or bang for your buck with our design team.

Yes, there’s a design fee, but the design fee almost pays for itself because we’re giving you our wholesale discounts. So we’re, a pillow top mattress is an example. Those cost 1500 to 3000 bucks. We’re getting them for 350 bucks. We’re giving you our cost for those. So that we can spend the money on the really cool design features like a custom mural is to come and do a really cool mural on the backyard fence that has the pool in front of it. So the picture of the pool is not just a picture of a block.

It’s a picture of a pool with a space that you want to take your family photos with the background as an example. So where do we save money on cost but not quality so that we can spend money on the things that people tend to book?

Erika (12:08)
Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Earlier when you were when we were chatting before we hit record, you had talked about, ⁓ you know, bringing vitality back to hospitality for you. How do you define generosity in the short term rental space?

Leslie Sonnier (12:09)
higher professional.

you

So I believe that the heart of hospitality is generosity. And like I said, that looks like doing something above and beyond what others are not. Even in the very beginning, the one thing I identified right away, because I was in the resort space, is man, all these short-term, the 20 that were existing at the time, right, which obviously grew pretty fast, but none of them offered full service concierge. And I’m like, well, yeah, you have a home.

can be less expensive or a better value for your vacation stays, you’re getting so many bedrooms, but they weren’t doing a full service concierge. So I was one of the early adopters of that just because that’s what I was used to, right? So when bachelorette parties came to town as an example, we would get them front row into getting into bars and restaurants and the connections that I just had in Scottsdale being.

honestly young and in my 20s, I 28 when I started the business, so different stage than I am at this point in life. But I’m like, well, why don’t I give them those really cool benefits, right? And that’s just the concierge services that we offer just grew and grew and over the years. But yeah, part of hospitality is generosity and having the phones working 24 seven, doesn’t have to be, generosity can be in your time.

or your staff’s time, your team’s time. It doesn’t necessarily have to be, we’re gonna go cook breakfast for you. It can be just like, hey, you don’t want your vacation to mess up. if a toilet clogs at three in the morning, you want somebody to be out there fixing it, not having to wait until 10 a.m., which a lot of companies, a lot of individuals who do co-hosting, they don’t have 24-hour customer service. We do. That’s the heart of generosity to me.

Erika (14:38)
Yeah, yeah, wow. Would you say with, you know, are there any specific moments that, you know, guests have told you about or given you feedback that validated your focus on generosity?

Leslie Sonnier (14:49)
I mean all the time. I think that our return client base was the key indicator that showed that, and I still get calls to this day. Even though I sold the original business two and a half years ago, I still get calls and texts all the time of people who are like, who would you stay with? If you’re not in it, boo, you’re not in it anymore. So I’m excited that when I get that next text to say, yeah, I’m back and better than ever.

So yeah, I think the return client base is the proof in the pudding, if you will.

Erika (15:21)
of that for our new investors who want to get into short term rentals. What’s one misconception that you find?

Leslie Sonnier (15:29)
this is a fun one ready for this. So I hear this all the time and I actually looked up stats recently. And when people say, short term rentals, they’re just so hard on the property and it’s just gotta be a cleaning nightmare and like all centered around cleaning. Okay. Fun fact, fun stat in America. I’m not just saying like if you have an investment property and I’m just comparing right now.

having a long-term tenant, one-year tenant or a two-year tenant versus having short-term less than 30 days. So that’s my basis of comparison here. Did you know that only 10 % of Americans have a professional housekeeper? 10%. And I don’t know the stats for renters versus owners, but I’m just going to surmise. Ooh, what a good word, surmise.

I’m just going to surmise that a lesser portion of that 10 % are renters. Just an idea, just a thought, okay? Where our houses are professionally cleaned three to five times a month. And then we have another team that goes in after to make sure the cleaners did a good job. Right? So from a cleaning perspective, okay? And guess…

are very educated about this cleaning perspective because the number one thing is that gosh darn it, there’s a hair in the bathroom, we’re gonna hear about it. So our cleaning standards are so top notch that in general, okay, in general now is there gonna be wear and tear, of course. You’re gonna have to repaint the baseboards every two years, right? But you’d have to do that if you had a long-term tenant also. But the cleaning piece is the biggest misconception of long-term tenants to short-term tenants in my opinion. Anyway, I that was kind of a fun fact.

you

Erika (17:09)
Yeah,

yeah, that’s really interesting. And, know, Leslie, I’m sure with all the properties that you’ve worked on and changed and have done these short-term rentals that you’ve seen something maybe where things didn’t go as planned or a property didn’t perform how you wanted to, would you mind sharing one of those moments and how did you navigate that?

Leslie Sonnier (17:31)
Yes, one of the things that

I think sometimes I’m a little bit too nice when it comes to the confidence of knowing what I know a property can do if we have complete control over the experience, starting with design. And one of the things that happened a couple of times, for the most part, we really attracted people who were like, I trust you, just make me the most money. And yes, we’d like to use it when we’re there and we’ll like whatever you put in there, right?

But sometimes people are like, well I really love the color navy blue and I would really like my home to be lots of navy blue. And navy blue, for instance, when your entire house is that way, when you get to the third picture, your eyes go naturally, go like, I’m not interested, okay? So when we allowed homeowners to have a big say in design, okay, we have a big say in design like this is the theme that I really want.

We found that our returns were not as great. So again, I’m kind of hedging back on the same conversation of let us design it, let us furnish it, let us do what we know how to do, because gosh darn it, I have so many stats that are going to get me nowhere else except for this industry. I know what it needs to look like in order to get the most bookings. You trust me and the world will change. So I think that’s the biggest thing if I look at overall all of the experiences.

Erika (18:55)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, it comes down to, you know, people making connections and actually making use of those connections. And in this instance, you and Leslie, for you and your time in real estate, how has networking helped your business? Do you have any advice for our listeners who are new to real estate?

Leslie Sonnier (19:16)
There’s so many really cool networking groups and you’ll find that some are better than others. And depending on what your vision is, right? So I think the first is figuring out what’s your vision? Do you want to be the real estate professional or do you want to be the real estate investor? Those are two different conversations. And there’s nothing wrong with one versus the other. Frankly, back in 2014, I wish I had the Leslie investor hat on more often because I would not be restarting the business. I would be fully retired if I had bought.

10 houses for 250 grand. Well, one could argue that 10 years from now, I would be having the same conversation and saying, man, I really wish that I would have bought 10 houses at 850 grand in Scottsdale, because those are now worth $2 million, right? So it’s, you, this is Leslie Investor Hat, if that’s okay, okay? Because I can do the property management hat, I can do the investor hat, okay? So this is Leslie Investor Hat, okay? Is I am back on a path.

I had to sell all my properties because of ⁓ divorce. So I’m starting all over again myself. But, and one of the things that has been my personal conundrum over the last even two years is, okay, so what if I just wait for the right time? I got myself in the, let’s just wait for the right time mode that I think people really can get caught up on. But if you think about it and shift your perspective to…

If you buy one house every year over the next 10 years, okay, you’re gonna buy at the peak and you’re gonna buy at the bottom. Right? It’s statistically over 10 years, you’re gonna buy at the peak and you’re gonna buy at the bottom. Okay? But the cool thing about America is once you have a mortgage, right, and you get the right kind of mortgage where it’s a set mortgage, if it’s cash flowing at that point in time, it’s probably gonna continue the cash flow.

So even if you bought at the top, right, and it’s cash-lender, as least it’s paying for your mortgage, right? If somebody else is paying for your mortgage, woohoo, skippity-doo, right? But if the house is not cash-lending when you purchase, don’t purchase it. And this is if you’re getting a long-term tenner or a short-term, by the way, okay? So that’s my, and this is something that, again, this is my own personal vision on the side of.

of doing this for other people is searching out and finding the ones for myself. So I don’t know if that helps answer the question. I went a little bit on tangent.

Erika (22:14)
Yeah, no, that was great, Leslie. And Leslie, what is the next big move that you have, whether it’s with your short-term rentals or I know there was some news that you were pretty excited about that you wanted to share?

Leslie Sonnier (22:27)
Yes, so in the space of I’m starting from zero and at the peak of my property management business, I was managing 137 properties at a time, which obviously there’s turnover. So I’ve managed hundreds of them over the nine years that I had the business, right? So when you’re used to managing in the hundreds and I’m starting with zero and starting all over,

I am like, oh my gosh, I want to hire a bunch of people that I really love and appreciate and can take things off my plate. But I need to be at that critical mass of 20 in order to do so. So I am running a really cool promotion where I am personally investing, okay, I’m personally investing five to $10,000 of my own money into the right home.

I’m not saying I’m gonna do it for everyone, okay? And to the right home that I know that I can make a difference in the revenue because of the last five to $10,000 that I personally invest, okay? So it could look like you have a home, you’re with another property manager, and you’re like, ah, I’m kind of iffy about this relationship, or oh, they kind of weren’t doing that great as they said, or oh, they don’t answer the phone, right? Give me a shot, give me a chance, okay?

Because I know with that five to ten thousand dollar investment like a ten thousand dollar investment I can convert a garage into a game room and bedroom that is going to exponentially increase revenue. I know with five thousand dollars I can do a mural on the backyard fence right next to the pool and people are going to book users drive through the roof right there. Okay. So I’m looking for relate people who are looking for a long longer term relationship.

Let me invest in you. Let me invest in your property. Let me invest in this relationship and so far what I’ve heard some Fairly known in the industry. I haven’t heard anybody else doing this as a promotion to start your business So I’m pretty stoked about it because it leads with generosity it leads with inspiration leads from the heart of who I am, right and and again, I’m pretty excited about the being able to for people to follow those stats

seeing the before and after photos, seeing the before and after revenue that you’ll be able to follow and see over the next year, two year, three years of what this promotion is able to produce. Because I’m confident in myself and all of the, like I said, useless information is going to get me nowhere else except for this industry. So might as well share that with others.

Erika (24:49)
Yeah, yeah, that’s really, really exciting. And, you know, you have more than one exciting thing going on because you were talking to me about accessibility. Can you ⁓ talk more about that too?

Leslie Sonnier (25:01)
Yes, yes, yes. one of my visions is how do I do something different this time around that can make an impact? And yesterday I had a very incredible conversation with a man named Barry who was out to transform the entire real estate industry. He wasn’t even talking about short-term rentals, but obviously that’s how my brain thinks, right?

And one of the things that’s lacking with the MLS is across the nation, except for in the state of Washington, okay, is for homes that are clearly designated when they hit the MLS, are they accessible or are they not? I learned yesterday as an example, there’s like eight types of accessibility, but in general people want to steer clear of it because they don’t want to get in trouble. Well, he has created a platform and a class.

that was just approved yesterday, yesterday, by the National MLS Services, that people from all states, if you’re a real estate professional, can take a class on a course. It’s not even very much money, but man, if you want to set yourself apart, if you want to set yourself apart in real estate, and again, forget short-term rentals, okay, and you take this class, it’s a 10-hour class, you can get a continuing education credit for it, then…

You will be above and beyond because if you think about it, okay, just the easy stats The largest group of Americans to retire. Okay are retiring right now as we speak. Okay, they’re not downsizing They’re side sizing. Okay, if they have a two-bedroom house, they’re buying another house that has all one floor as an example accessibility, okay, accessibility is gonna be really important as

Walkers are involved in wheelchairs and things like that. So to be able to understand how a home can be either retrofit, okay, and understand how to cater to this gigantic set of population. I believe in the real estate market. Man, if you’re hearing this and you want to be ahead of the ball game, when things are a lot competitive, more competitive now than they were five years ago, this is your in. So.

I’ll have to send a link to you guys to advertise that too, by the way. And this is just helping your friend. I don’t make anything out of this, by the way. This is just a side note, okay? One thing that I found out yesterday in this conversation, okay, is that the short-term rental space has not caught up either. Probably again, because it can be complicated and you don’t want to say the wrong thing and everything else.

But what he was sharing is that there’s a property that he stayed in on the Oregon Coast border that they designed the entire house or they created the entire house for full accessibility. That place is two years booked out. Two years booked out. And the community is small. The community of accessibility is small. Where my heart is is multi-generational family reunions.

Erika (27:45)
you

Leslie Sonnier (27:55)
So if grandma and grandpa need need spaces where they’re not going to trip on a transition or something like that, some of the things he was talking about are not that difficult to retrofit. So I’m going to be in a big learning process right now for that. Another is there’s a whole bunch of kids, the kiddos out there that again is my heart as a mom and that right now are forced to stay in hotels because houses in general aren’t ⁓ aren’t

accommodating to accessibility. So it’s a journey that I’m actually going to be on. And again, this is a brand new conversation. First to hear it, y’all. As of yesterday. So, but yeah, if you’re interested in that course, then I’m happy to share that with you guys. Follow me on Instagram and I’ll be sharing how to take that class and be ahead of the ball game.

Erika (28:43)
Yeah, wow, there’s a lot of exciting things going on. I just love it. Leslie, this has been such an insightful conversation. If someone wants to connect with you, learn more about short term rentals, or maybe, you know, they need help with the Airbnb projects that they have, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Leslie Sonnier (29:03)
Yeah, so I’ve, my personality is quirky, try to make it little bit funny and fun. I’m operating right now just in the state of Arizona, so obviously if you have a home here or you’d like a second home or other people are paying for your mortgage, ⁓ obviously follow me on Instagram, reach out to me, at Cortiva Collection, C-O-R-T-I-V-A Collection, at Cortiva Collection and…

You’ll see lots of videos and posts of inspirational quotes that I really like and some design features and ideas. If you are a professional in other states, even our state, don’t care, there’s professional property managers are needed and I don’t see anybody as competition to be honest with you. I think we can all excel and win and learn from each other. So I’ll have some really cool design tips and ideas and like, hey, here’s what I buy from Amazon when I…

shop for these houses, right? So I’ll be giving a lot of free tips that anybody can use to drive bookings and drive revenues. So yeah, at Quartiva Collection is how to find me the easiest. And laugh a little bit.

Erika (30:05)
I love how you’re bringing generosity back into the real estate space. It’s inspiring and it’s clearly working. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Leslie Sonnier (30:13)
Thank

you Erika, you’re wonderful. Have a lovely day.

Erika (30:17)
You too. And for everyone listening, if you got value from this episode, make sure that you’re subscribed to the Real Estate Pro Show. We’ve got more conversations with operators like Leslie, who are building incredible real estate businesses. We’ll see you on the next episode. Bye.