Unlocking Wealth: How One Investor Turned Debt into Six Figures in 7 Years

Stephen Schmidt (00:03.867)
Welcome to the show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs It’s your host Stephen Schmidt and I’m back out at like a bad habit and I got a special treat for you guys here in the studio Somebody that literally started with technically less than nothing and has made something of himself I’ve got norm Campbell in the studio and norm reigns from the state of Michigan He’s an experienced real estate investor agent and entrepreneur came into the business with debt and seven years later has a

high net worth and a very great income on a yearly basis and he navigates the entire real estate landscape as an agent and an investor himself coming from nothing to something. So we’re going to get into a great conversation today. But before we do that, just remember here at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers and real estate entrepreneurs, two to five X their businesses so they can build the businesses they’ve always wanted in order to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. That being said, Norm, welcome to the show today.

Norm (01:01.932)
Thanks to you and I appreciate it.

Stephen Schmidt (01:03.961)
You bet my friend. So let me ask you this. What, for our listeners sake, what got you started in the real estate business? How’d you get into it? And then what has evolved over the last seven years? How have you gotten to where you’re at now today?

Norm (01:18.113)
Yeah, so I got into the business because I needed to make more money, right? That was flat out. So I started in mortgages and then transitioned over to the selling side. And the past five years I’ve been working real estate, investing myself, but I’ve had a great team around me, the Monzo Group, I don’t know if you can see them up there. But I worked with…

you know, our broker Eric and his brothers and really just working towards setting myself up for success. You know, and having them invest in me so that I can invest in myself. So over the past seven years, you know, I started with negative 30 grand in the bank from student loans and cars and all that fun stuff. To today, you know, I’m near a six figure net worth and making six figures year in, year out. And yeah, it’s just been an incredible.

Stephen Schmidt (02:13.807)
That’s awesome, man. So what made you decide back then? You’re like, you work in retail at the time. I know we got that from the pre-show conversation, but what made you decide to just go all in on real estate? Was there like a defining moment you also had in the beginning where you’re like, man, like I’m in the right place compared to the mortgage side.

Norm (02:29.175)
Yeah.

Yeah, so it was COVID. COVID was what galvanized everything. I didn’t want to work in retail anymore because it was tough navigating that problem while it was going on. so that’s really what triggered the switch. I got laid off as a retail worker and said can’t just collect checks. I need to do something. So that’s when I got into the mortgage side. And then another light bulb went off.

Stephen Schmidt (02:34.085)
Ha ha.

Yeah.

Norm (02:58.828)
because I got to see all those closing packages and all the numbers that these brokers and agents, you you made how much on a $200,000 sale? Okay, yeah, I need to get into that. That’s, you know, I’m not doing the right side of this transaction. So that’s really what got me going. And then, you know, I had a kid and I was making $20 an hour. It just wasn’t gonna work. So I needed to take a little bit of a risk, a gamble, but it’s paid off so far.

Stephen Schmidt (03:28.731)
That’s awesome, man. What do you what do you like most about the retail side of the business?

Norm (03:34.492)
retail side of the business. I look, I like helping people. So I tell this to any potential client, know, my goal is, you know, at the beginning, yeah, I was looking at those paychecks. Now, you know, the paycheck doesn’t matter. What matters is helping people to the best of my ability, no matter what situation it is, you know, and sometimes that’s not selling a house. That’s trying to keep the house and giving options to people. Sometimes that’s getting somebody a cash offer. Sometimes that’s helping them.

Stephen Schmidt (03:38.265)
Hmm.

Stephen Schmidt (04:00.443)
Hmm.

Norm (04:04.106)
remodel their house and managing that project with them so that they can get it to the market and get top dollars. So, you know, that’s the biggest thing for me right now is I like helping people. I like making sure that my clients, the people who trust me are taking care.

Stephen Schmidt (04:19.328)
One really interesting thing about you too, Norm, is most people are either or, right? You’re either an investor or you’re a realtor. And it’s really genuinely, out of all the people I talk to, probably 10 % or less do both things. And I find it really interesting. think on the investment side, there’s kind of a…

an energy where I think investors are like, if realtors knew what investors know, they wouldn’t be realtors. They’d just be investors. But there are benefits to having both sides of things. But what made you decide, at what point did you start actually investing in real estate yourself, and how has that journey gone for you?

Norm (04:59.977)
Yeah, so I started investing my third year, about halfway through my second year into real estate. So what I found is being an agent, and more specifically being with the team that I’m on, is I have more access to inventory than I ever could as just an investor. So I don’t know how familiar you are with us, but that’s okay if you’re not.

We’re number one in the country in sold homes. So what we do is we help investors acquire and liquidate individual properties, multi-families, packages of properties. And it really affords not only myself, but my other investor clients a unique opportunity to look at houses that nobody else can see. You know, when my investor pulls the house on the MLS and say, yeah, that’s a great deal until every other investor and their mother sees that same deal. And all of a sudden it’s 30, $40,000 more expensive.

I can give people things that are not on the market yet or maybe never will go to the market. So it gives me a unique perspective as an agent where I can go and check these properties out before they hit the market, before there’s a high demand for them and make a win-win deal, right? Where the seller wins, my buyer wins or whether I’m the buyer or not, right? And we make it all work and make it happen.

In fact, we have actually developed a beta website called insidersinventory.com where you can go and check out off-market properties available at any time. And this is open to investors, residential buyers. There’s a lot of different properties that are up there. So I encourage anybody who is interested in the metrotrademarket to check that out. Or obviously, reach out to me. I can get you some great…

Stephen Schmidt (06:27.502)
you

Norm (06:53.715)
great investment deals that nobody else really can.

Stephen Schmidt (06:57.53)
100 % man. So now with the investment side of stuff, what do you personally invest in? Single family? Do you do small commercial, multi-family? What’s your strategy there?

Norm (07:08.842)
So I got my start actually with condos and it’s crazy. So I was upside down on my house and this I bought before getting into real estate. So I sold my house and I moved my family into a one bedroom, one bathroom, 600 square foot condo with my daughter, my pregnant wife and myself. And ever since then we have bought single family slash condos. We move in, we fix them up, we move out.

to the next property, right? And that’s how we’ve been transitioning through things. So right now we have several rental properties. I don’t really do a ton of fix and flips. I’ve done a handful of them, but my main goal is long-term stability, right? So I wanna get into single-family rentals that I can build equity in and tap into for either my next investment or whatever it might be.

Stephen Schmidt (07:54.255)
Mm.

Stephen Schmidt (08:06.062)
Yeah, 100%. So now, what made you decide to land on that niche specifically?

Norm (08:14.164)
Yeah, I mean, it’s hard to say. Really, I got into real estate with the mindset of I wanted to build long-term wealth originally. And, you know, I see the TikToks, I see the YouTube videos of, this is how you become a millionaire and this and that. So I really kind of had that mindset from the get-go. To get into that specific niche, it was really more so opportunity, right? The opportunity presented itself and I was ready. So I went ahead and I pulled that trigger.

And it’s worked out really well. That being said, if an opportunity comes for an apartment building and I’m ready to pull the trigger, I’ll do that too. And I think that’s something all investors should have the mindset of is, hey, if the opportunity is there, seize it. It may not be your forte, but if you have competent agents, you have a competent team, you always fall forward. If you make a mistake, that’s okay. You learn from it.

Stephen Schmidt (08:52.154)
Sure.

Norm (09:10.825)
But I tell my investors if it’s an opportunity and we think it’s gonna Do a great job for us in terms of cash flow or profit. You got to be ready to pull the trigger So I always present multiple deals to people and just you know, some people like it some people don’t But I you know, I’ve tailored the searches to what they’re needing But if I think it’s an opportunity, I’m gonna present it to them either way to see what their thoughts are

Stephen Schmidt (09:37.316)
Totally. So now on that note, how do you decide what opportunities are actually worth pursuing?

Norm (09:45.107)
So my main objective is cash flow. And that is slowly changing, but because the inflated market prices over the past couple of years, it’s really hard to find that fix and flip deal that’s gonna work out. we do it and it can be done, but more often than not, we’re finding rentable properties. And I focus on, okay, if I’m gonna buy this cash and then refinance it, what is the cash flow?

So my strategy is to cash flow between two to $500 per property after they’ve been leveraged. Once they’ve been leveraged, I use those funds, you know, similar to BRRR a little bit, but I reuse those funds to go into the next property or the next investment.

Stephen Schmidt (10:28.506)
Mm-hmm.

Stephen Schmidt (10:34.266)
Okay. So yeah, I mean you’re repeating the cycle, right?

Norm (10:38.926)
Exactly, as I’ve started acquiring more properties and building my net worth, that has become easier and easier for me to get access to those funds that I need.

Stephen Schmidt (10:52.41)
Totally. With kind of the secret blend of herbs and spices that you have going on with your kind of dual industry insights, what are you seeing in the market right now that others might be missing?

Norm (11:07.078)
Yeah, well, the big thing is houses are specifically in the metro to trade area. If it is not priced properly, the houses will not sell. You you buy a deal on the worst case scenario, not on the best case scenario. So if you’re buying something with pie in the sky expectations of, I’m going to set neighborhood records and I’m going to get, you know, comps here and this and that, that’s not how I recommend we buy. I buy off of worst case scenario. Okay.

Stephen Schmidt (11:22.404)
Sure.

Norm (11:34.45)
What if we had to sell it for this? Would the numbers still work? Would we still be happy with that? So that’s really, when we’re taking a look at secret sauce in the market, it’s just, know, everything changes year to year and month to month. It’s all about being fluid and being able to identify those deals as they come. And again, I don’t try to predict the market. I don’t have a crystal ball. And anything can change at any given moment.

So I look at the now, I look at the worst case scenario and can we still cash flow? Can my investors still make money or if it’s myself, can I still make money if things don’t go the way I’m planning on them to? So that’s really, I don’t like the word secret sauce, I like the word hard work. There’s no secret to what I’m doing. It’s not some magic code or anything like that. You just show up and you put in the work.

Sometimes that’s the hardest part, right? But I work anywhere from 40 to 70 hours a week between being an agent and being an investor and managing my own properties. But that’s the sacrifice I know I have to make to put things together for my long-term success.

Stephen Schmidt (12:50.328)
And what does that look like for you? Like, what’s the long-term that you’re looking to pursue? What’s the end game?

Norm (12:57.563)
Yeah, so I am looking to build, right now looking to build my portfolio. And I think you can ask any real estate agent, or really any investor, I want to be able to not have to work if I don’t want to. That’s the goal, right? Retiring. So I want to build my portfolio to be strong and be able to give me passive income and still stay in the six figure range. And once I do that, you know, I…

Stephen Schmidt (13:11.46)
Totally.

Norm (13:26.883)
I can maybe take my foot off the gas. I’d like to think I would, but I’m not sure that that actually would happen. Yeah, I mean, that’s my long-term goal is that I’d like to build portfolios and then diversify my money a little bit into, you know, stock market, things like that. 401k Roth IRAs, land contracts, things like this. I’d like to diversify a little bit into that. And again, just with the focus of that passive income.

Stephen Schmidt (13:34.17)
sure.

Norm (13:54.369)
By the time I hit 50, I can enjoy doing whatever I’d like to do without having to worry about work.

Stephen Schmidt (14:01.817)
Yeah, 100%. You know, I think a lot of times, and really, any time somebody gets into the real estate investing space, mean, the whole eventual goal is the financial freedom, the ability to work when you want to on your terms, right? And it’s so elusive for many people as well. They end up finding that they end up just creating a job. So one of the big separators is systems and processes that people put in place to systematize their efforts. What are some of the things that you’re doing

in your own business to kind of buy back your time, if you will.

Norm (14:35.898)
Yeah, so like I said, I work with the largest team in closed home transactions in the country. So we have a phenomenal administrative staff that helps me with my offers, sometimes market analysis, but really whatever I need, marketing, all these things. So I have a full-time dedicated staff to help me with that, not just myself, but all of our agents here. But taking it a little step further, I have CRM management systems that send…

AI, auto tax, I also have systems in place for tracking my rent and my expense on my properties. And then my wonderful wife jumps in a lot on that and helps on the back end when I’m crazy and I need a little assist.

Stephen Schmidt (15:23.449)
Yeah, totally man. I’d be lost without my wife too, brother. So I completely understand where you’re coming from. My life would just be an absolute mess. So I get that. Do you plan to stay in Michigan forever or do you see yourself expanding outside of that market too at some point?

Norm (15:27.622)
Yeah, absolutely.

Norm (15:33.22)
Haha

Norm (15:43.27)
I mean, there’s enough food on the table here in Michigan for everybody to So I don’t have any plans of moving to a different market. The way I see it is Detroit and Metro Detroit is one of the most investable markets in the country. Yeah, mean, prices are low and, you know, the city is slowly but surely coming up. You know, we’ve had great massive improvements, you know, in our downtown, midtown area.

Stephen Schmidt (15:46.937)
Hmm.

Stephen Schmidt (15:56.215)
Really?

Stephen Schmidt (16:05.753)
Mm.

Norm (16:11.033)
that it kind of expanded out into Cork town and the train station, increasing values. There’s city rehabilitation projects going on block by block, right? Making the city, the values go up. And I think now is a great time to start looking at things if we’re doing long-term plays, because over time, I do think we’re gonna see an exponential rise in values in these homes. And you can look at…

even Little Pockets, right? East English Village is a phenomenal area in Detroit. Love it, big, beautiful homes, architecture. But now it’s starting to spill over into the neighboring areas and helping those neighbors get more for their home. And again, know, there’s, it’s Pockets right now, but it’s slowly expanding and values are slowly going up across the city. But you can still get into this market. You know, you can still invest in a property for under, you know,

100,000, sometimes even less than 50,000 and make great returns on it. And I think there’s a ton of opportunity inside the city. And of course, you know, in the surrounding areas, you know, we get into Metro Detroit, it’s a great market and affordable market. And that’s for investors, first time home buyers, wherever it is. You know, I encourage you to take a look at Michigan. If you can handle a little bit of cold, it’s a great place to be.

Stephen Schmidt (17:08.76)
Hmm.

Norm (17:33.845)
And there’s a lot of wealth to be built here. And like I said, love the city, love what they’re doing, love the other municipalities in the area. And as they are starting to grow and understand what investing is, right? A lot of these cities are catching up to that in making sure that these properties and these landlords are being held accountable. Not every investor likes to hear that, but I really don’t like working with people who are not trying to invest.

Stephen Schmidt (17:47.161)
you

Norm (18:03.076)
improve home values and try to help people, whether it’s through renting or fixing, that’s the goal, right? We’re not trying to be, you know, slumlords out here taking people’s money. We’re trying to set people up for success, find them great spaces to live, safe places to live, and these cities are doing a great job so far of keeping on top of that. So like I said, I think Michigan is one of the most investable markets right now in terms of long-term holds, and there’s a lot of opportunities for fix and flips in the city as well if you know what

Stephen Schmidt (18:32.153)
You got man. Yeah, it’s about being able to look and know where to find the opportunities, right? 100 % and that’s why you got to work with a good person on it as well. So on that note, like where can people connect with you for more info? Norm, see what you’re working on and all of the above.

Norm (18:37.078)
Absolutely.

Norm (18:48.835)
Yeah, well you can feel free to visit any of my social media pages, Norm, Top 1 % Realtor. You can always feel free to give me a call, 248-805-2706 or an email if you have questions, if you’re looking to sell your house, if you’re looking to start your investment journey or transition into the Michigan market. Feel free to call me. You can also call the Monzo Group main line, our ladies up there.

are amazing by admins and they can get you redirected either to me or to an agent that might specialize in what you’re looking to do. So we’ve got multiple offices. We’ve got the only major brokerage office in Detroit in our Guardian building, big, building. And we’re right there in the city. And then we got a couple other offices a little further north, just kind of.

Continuing to expand it and grow. So if you guys want some help, know, we’ve got a hundred agents here. We have networks here. You know, we’d love to be able to connect and see what we could do to make it happen.

Stephen Schmidt (19:51.203)
You bet folks, we’ll go show them some love from the real estate pros and Investor Fuel. We appreciate Norm hopping on here and dropping some nuggets for us today. Thanks for being here, Norm, and we’ll see y’all in the next episode.

Norm (20:01.571)
Appreciate it, Stephen. Thank you.