The Power of Networking: Insights from A Mortgage Influencer

Stephen Schmidt (00:02.707)
Welcome back to the show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs. your host, Stephen Schmidt. And I have a living icon in the studio here today. I’ve got perhaps the biggest personality in mortgages. He’s got over a million followers on Instagram. He’s the founder and CEO of e-mortgage capital, which is a nationally recognized mortgage brokerage, one of the largest in the country, if not the largest, which I’ll let him clarify on. But we’re going to get into an incredible conversation here today with Joseph Shalaby about his rise to massive success and how he’s doing multiple different things and doing more in 24 hours than most people get done in three months. So we’ll get right into it. But before we do just remember at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers and real estate entrepreneurs, two to five X their businesses so they can build the businesses they’ve always wanted in order to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. That being said, Joe, welcome to the show.Joe (00:56.172)
Hey, thanks so much for having me, Steven.

Stephen Schmidt (00:58.067)
Glad you’re here, my friend. Glad we somehow got you through the grapevine to come on the show. so I know we’re going to have a really great conversation today. Had a little bit of chance to chat before we hopped on here. But can you give us a little bit of background? I mean, you don’t go from zero to a hundred overnight. And obviously you’ve got a colorful background and color story. Can you tell us how you got started into doing what you’re doing, how you became CEO, business owner, entrepreneur, investor, personality and

and how you got to where you’re at today.

Joe (01:30.53)
I mean, so I was a theater minor in college and I think it kind of all spun off from, you know, just being a performer just to where I’m at now. But I’m, you know, I’m the founder CEO of e-mortgage capital. We got about 900 independent loan officers, probably a couple hundred branches nationwide. And I started in the mortgage industry fresh out of college, you know, and it kind of happened as a result of…

A friend of mine who introduced me to the space and basically told me that I was gonna chase academia. I was gonna seek getting a doctorate in sociology and just kinda hang out. was in Santa Barbara. I went to UCSB and just wanted to hang out and surf and go to the beach all day long. And he’s like, you know what? You’re gonna be dead broke making 80,000 bucks a year. You’re never gonna be able to live in Newport Beach. And I was forced to leave Santa Barbara and go to grad school because I wanted to get my PhD in Santa Barbara. So in that time when I was getting my master’s in sociology,

I kind of just reconnected with my history here in Newport Beach and I realized quickly that academia wasn’t going to keep me in Newport Beach. So I entered the space that at the time, this was pre-crash 2008, all the people making tons of money were in the mortgage space. So I decided and I elected to basically go into the mortgage space and my journey into entrepreneurship started as a result of misfortune where the person that I’d worked for

basically took my commissions in multiple occasions and I was just kind of sick and tired of getting taken advantage of. So I said, you know what, I’m just gonna start my own company. I’m sick of all these people, you know, taking advantage of my hard work, my labor, and I’m over here just grinding all the time and every time I think I’m gonna make a big payday, they just play with my commissions. So as a result, I was kind of forced into starting my own mortgage company, my own brand, and…

And I was, I’ve been an entrepreneur effectively since I was like 14, so it was kind of in my bones. The difference with a mortgage company is that you had to have the proper licensing incorporated, et cetera. So I never did like in a legitimate company as a youth, but I was ready for it because, know, in those times of tribulation, you’re kind of forced into a position where you got to step up. So after I was taking advantage of one last time I was about 21 years old,

Joe (03:55.598)
I said, forget it. I’m going to get my broker’s license. Got my broker’s license. Started my first mortgage company in 2005. And sadly, the industry crashed in 2008. But I was crushing it. I was able to buy my first house at 25 years old in Newport Beach. Sadly, the industry crashed, so I lost it at like 29, 28. But the journey of entrepreneurship has been one of, you know,

a lot of triumph and a lot of struggle. being in the mortgage industry, we’re in a very cyclical market. as a result of my struggles in the past, I realized I’m not going to have… I have no mortgages now. I own every one of my properties cash. So I don’t have to worry about foreclosure or…

you know, interest rate, volatility or anything like that. And I position myself like that way by design because as a third world immigrant, you know, coming from poverty, you never want to be in a position where you’re going to face that again. So, you know, I started real young in the mortgage space. Started at 21 and here I am. I’m 43 years old. So all I know basically is the mortgage industry. Last 22 years, been in this space.

And I continue to kind of scale and grow and teach other people. And now the whole purpose of our business is just to serve our loan officers, get them to a position where they can grow and multiply and just dominate.

Stephen Schmidt (05:35.385)
What was the difference do you think between you and so many other loan officers in 08 when that happened? mean, it sounds like you lost tons and yet so many others just completely quit the business, got into a different field, new career, whatever. What made you decide to stick with it?

Joe (05:54.034)
well, I stayed in the mortgage space space after the crash, but I, I pivoted from lending to loss mitigation, was for effectively foreclosure defense. And it taught me a whole nother side of the business. taught me, you know, how, how much risk there is with mortgages and open my eyes up to, you know, the

The real detriment that America faced as a result of the mortgage crisis of 08, I mean, we were the reason for the great collapse, the mortgage industry. And being on the other side and helping Americans navigate their potential home loss was really an eye-opening experience for me. And I came back to the mortgage industry, I mean, on the lending side, I came back 10 times stronger because I’d seen so much adversity.

Matter of fact my loss mitigation company took off. We were doing tons of business I opened a big floor. We’re one of the biggest in the country So I was you know, that’s when I started at that time. I’d you know, I really never went through a true crash because I was able to Start a whole new business outside of you know, the six-month window where where you know, I went through my own mortgage Collapse with my business then I was able to position and start a whole new company

and that exploded. But I think what set me apart is this, I’m just relentless when it comes to my work ethic and I’m a very good networker. So I was able to start a whole new company because of my contacts. I was well positioned with all of my network and I was able to immediately pivot because I had a roadmap.

And that just shows you the power of having a powerful network because when things are bleak and you know there’s opportunity somewhere else and you see that there’s opportunity somewhere else and you have a friend that say, hey, this is the roadmap. This is what you got to do. You can pivot, but if you don’t have a solid network with successful entrepreneurs, how are you going to figure out what’s your next move? got to like just what, you know, I guess chat, GPT nowadays.

Stephen Schmidt (08:16.756)
Yeah, I guess there’s some truth in that. But what is your secret to building long-term relationships with other entrepreneurs? What did you have to do?

Joe (08:28.64)
What I’ve noticed is a trend with big entrepreneurs is none of them are self-seeking. They’re always of service. one of, I’ll give you an example, one of my favorite people that have been helpful for me is a gentleman by the name of Dan Fleischman. The moment I met him is he just immediately started serving me, putting me in touch with as many people as he knew that could fill a void in my business.

So he just puts me on threads with people all day long till this very day for like, it’s been like two years and he’s just like, Hey, meet this guy, meet that guy. So it’s like, you just seek to serve. And that’s really, you know, a godly thing to do effectively anyway. But when you look at it in a place where I run in circles where everyone’s a founder and CEO, everyone’s a bestselling author, everyone’s a podcast or everyone’s a, you know, a motivational speaker, entrepreneur. It’s like,

These people don’t need money. They’re not self-seeking. They want to be of service. They want to do good for mankind. And that’s the mindset you have to have. You can’t be self-seeking. God doesn’t want you to be self-seeking. And the people who I like to associate with are not self-seeking. They’re just go-givers. They’re not people that just want to just take and get from other people. They want to give.

So the biggest thing for me was like I immediately just wanted to be of service. And I keep that mindset. I don’t ever look at money as my driver. I never did and I still don’t. I learned from a spiritual mentor of mine years ago that you do God’s work, He always does your work. Period. Like just do God’s work first and then He’ll do your work.

And I live that mentality in everything I do. I’m just like, hey, I’m just going to wake up, do God’s work today. Whatever happens, happens. know, like I’m going to be faced with a bunch of adversity. I’m going be faced with a bunch of struggles, but I’m here just to serve. I’m here to lift up other people. I’m here to like connect other people. I’m here to preach God’s word. And whatever happens from there, happens from there. And guess what? God always does my work. He allows me to continue to grow, multiply, thrive.

Joe (10:54.57)
and just crush everything I’m doing.

Stephen Schmidt (10:57.812)
What was the biggest risk you took early on?

Joe (11:02.894)
So the biggest risk I feel I took was just starting my own mortgage company when I was young because I had to take several months off and make no money and study for the broker’s exam. And then from there I had to go through the whole process of setting up a company and getting it licensed. So there was a period there where I literally made zero dollars for like six months. And I’m talking like, here I am, of what I felt was like a distinguished man.

at like 20, I don’t know, I was in my early 20s and I was making no money living at my parents’ You know, like this really was a big swing. You know, like I could have continued on just kind of positioning myself to just kind of get by and not live with my parents. But I’m like, you know what, I’m gonna go all in. I studied really, really hard, passed the exam first time and just went all in on starting my own mortgage company. And that was, you know, that was a big risk for me because

You know, I was broke. had zero money. You know, I was like living like a teenager again.

Stephen Schmidt (12:06.1)
you

At what point did you start making the content and what you do a big priority in your business? At what stage did you start doing that?

Joe (12:20.014)
I became a social media influencer not by design actually I can’t attribute it to a need other than basketball and I’ll let me tell you the story. Our number one basketball player on my I was a CEO of a big company and we were killing it we’ve done billions and billions but I didn’t become a social media influencer because I wanted to be a social media influencer. I became a social media influencer because

Stephen Schmidt (12:33.662)
Okay.

Joe (12:49.07)
Our number one player on our basketball team was the number one mortgage influencer at the time in 2024. He was the number one mortgage influencer period. And he was on our basketball team. He happened to be very good. Like I’m talking like he carried our team. He would drop 30 points a game. He took us, you like I’m on a men’s league, right? And basketball, like, come on, you’re in your forties, you’re playing basketball. Like, come on, how serious could it be? It means a lot to me. mean, everyone on the team is pretty serious about it. This is like…

We go, we like it, we practice, we’re serious. But our number one player left us and went to my competitor and I offered him the moon. And he still didn’t take the moon. So he left us, went to our competitor, said, I’m not gonna take your offer, which was smoking. I’m gonna go to your competitor, which was a derivative of you anyways. So our competitor came from us. They happen to be almost as big as us now.

And it upset me so bad, it stung so bad that I said, you know what, can’t beat you at basketball, but I’m gonna destroy you on social media. So from there I’m like, I hired people to kind of help me go viral, figure out my content strategy, because I was like, I’m 40 years old, how do you go 40, how do you go viral over 40? Like, that’s tough. So I had a friend, thank God, at the time, and these are kids I’m taking instruction with, who introduced me to another guy.

named the viral genius and that’s all he does he just basically helps companies go viral and and he just basically gave me all these ideas to start implementing on on my social media strategy but they made me get out of my comfort zone and it allowed me to tap into the talent that I had in college which was improv I was an imp I was a I was a improv performer so it allowed me to basically go back to my roots as an improvisational actor

And I was like, cool, I’m a trained improv actor anyway. Like I could do this, you know, like if this guy were to go to tell any of my competitors, any other CEO to do the stuff he wants, cause you can’t just go viral doing normal stuff. Like you can’t just like get in front of a screen and talk con mortgage. You can’t get in front of screen and just do a relatable content piece. You got to do something extreme. You got to do stuff that basically makes people stop on your content and stop scrolling.

Joe (15:18.008)
You know, like, so I was able to create content that drove millions of people to my page and encouraged them to follow me. So, I was 42 years old. It’s only been a year and a half I started really pushing content. So my podcast and my viral content strategy, my growth strategy, a year and a half ago, and I went from zero followers to 1.35 million followers in a year and a half. All organic, no paid people.

Only people I paid were the people who gave me the strategies and helped me do like the only people I pay are video editors and directors, right? So everything else is like it’s all me and it it’s like it takes guts to do what I do because what I do Is crazy, you know, like I mean like it’s just it’s crazy I I’m an entertainer like I’m I just face that is the facts like I’m not if you watch my content nothing is about mortgage nothing is like

Stephen Schmidt (15:59.99)
you

Joe (16:16.718)
You would think you had you would have no clue what I do for a living unless you read my bio But I am purely an entertainer I and you will watch my content you will love it if you follow me I can guarantee you’ll laugh it’ll it’ll it’ll you’ll be shocked It’ll take you to a whole like you won’t believe what you’re watching. You know I do things like I created a whole new content bucket that’s It’s pretty crazy

But I basically go up to people on the beach, know, I walk up to, you know, beautiful young, beautiful girls or cool looking people and, and, and, and feed them a tarantula dehydrated for a hundred bucks.

Stephen Schmidt (17:03.989)
That’s so out of pocket. I love it.

Joe (17:05.998)
Like for a hundred bucks, you know, like or or something, you know, But yeah, you’ll watch my content and there’s you know, I feed and by the way in my defense a dehydrated dehydrated tarantula it is boiled so the poisons out and And it is dehydrated. So it’s and they’re actually considered delicacies somewhere in the world. I bought them on Amazon. So can’t be that bad

Stephen Schmidt (17:32.566)
I just you know get my Amazon tarantulas and go feed them to people on the beach. That’s great. my god. Do you What do you think is the real secret behind obviously you’ve got a great case study with What you’ve done with your content. What do you think the real secret is behind what you’ve done that go? That like makes something go viral

Joe (17:39.244)
Yeah, go feed him to.

Stephen Schmidt (17:55.654)
Obviously nobody’s like if you’re life insurance you’re talking about life insurance. No one’s gonna watch your videos if you’re in mortgages You’re talking about mortgages. No one’s watching your shit

Joe (18:00.278)
No, no, that’s exactly right. Nobody’s watching what you- nobody cares about mortgage Joe. Nobody. No one- there is- the guy who was the number one influencer at the time for mortgage, he hit 400,000 followers and he stopped. Cause he started doing it like in 2017 when people- the algorithm was allowing you to grow off boring mortgage content somehow some way. But he literally has stopped growing.

Stephen Schmidt (18:25.727)
Sure.

Joe (18:28.908)
I’m four times his, three times his size, but I keep growing. I keep growing. Like, so the algorithm doesn’t feed, no one wants to go on social media for one, they only want entertainment. So you think about how do you go viral on social media? Entertain people. What does entertainment look like to you? Then it probably looks like that to a lot of other people. So nobody cares about mortgage though, Joe. They care about Joe. Be me, like, so.

As a result, it’s allowed me to have like my, I’m creator, you know, I’m an actor. So it allows me to have my creative expression. If you wanna go on viral on social media, you just gotta be creative. And no one wants you, they don’t want mortgage you, they want you. They want like Stephen as in his like true state, his authentic self. So whatever that means, that means that’s different for everybody. So.

You know, if it’s tattoos, it’s tattoos. There’s motorcycles, there’s motorcycles. it’s, you know, wild antics, it’s wild antics. If it’s pranks, it’s pranks. But it’s gotta be entertainment. So like I told you, Steven, earlier in our discussion, like my channel produces 15 to 30 million views a month. The average TV channel produces 2 million. So you think of, but, and I said this on my speaking engagement last week in New York.

Television is just views. Social media is interactions. So you think about the difference in engagement. When people watch my content, they engage with it. They don’t just view it. They like it. They comment on it. They share it. They save it. Yada yada. So actually my 20 million views are much more effective than a cable channel’s 2 million views. Because they just watch it on TV, but you don’t even know if they’re watching it.

Cause you’re doing something, no one’s watching TV. And in two years from now, we’re going to be talking about TV like in past tense. Like I was almost going to start talking about TV in past tense now, you know, because that’s how, like I never, the only thing I watch on TV are, are the finals, you know, are like sports games, know, like who watches TV, you know, like Netflix, right? Like TV is very, very, is going to be archaic for the next generation. It’s, it’s becoming more and more archaic by the day. But you know,

Stephen Schmidt (20:46.623)
Sure.

Joe (20:56.974)
So I treat my social media the same way as a television company. I got my entertainment channel. You come, you watch my channel. And then if you click on my stories, my stories get 10,000 15,000 views and climbing a story. I could post, I market on my stories. I put out my daily market updates on my stories so you know I’m doing mortgage. You know that I’m a thought leader. You know that I’m talking about interest rates and the Fed and da da da da.

and you’re forced to watch my boring story about the interest rates in the markets and the housing issues that we’re facing and yada yada and where the market is going. And if you’re interested, you watch it. And if you’re not interested, you swipe past it. I don’t wanna force you to watch a boring reel. If you wanna know about, if you’re an active buyer, watch my stories. If you wanna know about economics, follow me.

You know, and that’s where I’ll talk about my books and that’s where I’ll talk about my webinar to join the company. The whole purpose of me blanket marketing is to grow the company. So I get millions of eyeballs consumers that are, you know, that are working with other loan officers at, the mortgage company follow me. So, you know, I’m branding, I have massive brand authority. Our company has millions of followers as well. So we’re always just pumping, pumping content specific.

for, you know, like on our stories specific for, you know, our target demographic and then the rest we entertain. And I did this presentation again, the biggest 2025 trend on social media right now is companies have pivoted from whatever they do, whatever they’re selling to entertainment. That is the biggest trend for any company right now in 2025.

And that’s something I started in 2024. And the other biggest trend in 2025 is the CEO or president is the face of the brand. So if you’re not, if you’re a founder CEO listening to this podcast and you’re not out there entertaining and you’re not the face of your brand, you think like you’re going to hire a social media department to do it. I’m going to eat your lunch.

Stephen Schmidt (23:17.174)
If you had to go back to the beginning when you started but you could take all of the knowledge that you’ve gained over the past several decades What would you do different and what would you do the same?

Joe (23:31.554)
What I would do different is I wish I started this in like 2015. my god. If I started social media and growing on social media in 2015. Because I tried social media in 2018, 2019 and I’d be like, the federal reserve, the boring mortgage, mortgage. And I threw in the towel all the time. Because I’m like, this isn’t working. Nobody’s listening. Nobody’s watching. No. You know, like.

And it was discouraging. Okay, wait a couple months, try again. Same thing. Nobody’s listening. Nobody’s watching. And it’s, it’s like disheartening. And I, it didn’t dawn on me until this kid tells me that’s not what people are on social media for. Like people are there for entertainment, for release. Like then I’m like, well, you don’t get it until you get out of your comfort zone. So two things. One, I would have started

I would have started building a personal brand sooner. I started building my personal brand a year and a half ago I’m the biggest personal brand in the mortgage industry globally now. I would have started sooner I would have been like Grant Cardone. I would have been like Gary Vee But no I had to start late, so I’m a late comer to this game and I would have just Been uncomfortable. I should have got more uncomfortable sooner You know like you got to get uncomfortable because if you’re comfortable

You’re not winning. So I didn’t get uncomfortable until I was forced because of basketball, because I was upset that our number one player left us. And why did it, why did that moment matter so much? It’s like, if I had not played basketball and on the team, I would have never started. I would have never started. And now personal brand is so important that if you don’t have a personal brand in the mortgage industry or the real estate industry, you’re going to be extinct in two years because I just did a talk on this.

There’s something now, it’s new, it’s called AI indexing, and it’s the new SEO. The new SEO. Now if ChatGPT doesn’t know who you are, you’re done. ChatGPT could write a better three sentence bio than any writer I can hire on me. It could write a novel about me because I have so much content out there. Now AI indexes everything now.

Joe (26:01.31)
And it’s the new SEO. And if you cannot be identified by ChatGPT and your competitor can, guess what? They’re going with your competition. You’re not gonna win. Because people are now going to ChatGPT and AI for all their decisions. Like every decision now will be ran through ChatGPT. Like why wouldn’t you get ChatGPT’s opinion? It’s free and it’s more effective than your opinion. And it’s happening now.

in so many businesses like, chatty people like, should I work with this guy or should I work with that guy? No, definitely work with that guy because he’s got a brand. We know him. I could find him all over. He’s done this, this is his bio. Like this other guy, who the hell is this guy? You know, like, no, we don’t know him. Well, he’s offered me a better rate. Nope. No validity there.

Stephen Schmidt (26:54.358)
Yeah, 100%. What’s out of all the podcasts you’ve done, and everything, what’s a question that no one’s ever asked you that you want to answer?

Joe (27:06.67)
My closing question for my podcast. When you’re in front of the pearly gates, what’s God gonna tell you? I ask that question on every podcast. And then that is my closing question. And then my opening question is like, what’s your morning routine, which people have asked me. So I have like a, I take people on like a physiological journey, I like to call it on my podcast.

Stephen Schmidt (27:09.598)
And what’s that?

Stephen Schmidt (27:18.006)
Mmm.

Stephen Schmidt (27:36.392)
blah blah. So, I mean, with that being said, when you’re standing at the pearly gates, what’s one thing that God’s going to say to you?

Joe (27:47.758)
You know

Joe (27:51.638)
You no one’s asked me that before, so that’s my question. But you’ve done good, you’ve served, you put in, you do your best. You try to do my work all the time, you fail frequently, but you get back up, you keep falling, and you keep getting back up, and I appreciate that. You have relentless drive to keep serving me. So I’m gonna give you a pass, I’m let you in.

You

Stephen Schmidt (28:18.902)
The casual contingent hopefully and got me man well Joe well tell these people where they can connect with you for more where they can go follow you and and join the Join the Joseph Chalabi TV show. Where can they go connect with you?

Joe (28:22.734)
You

Joe (28:34.38)
Yeah, yeah. Find me on all channels, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, X, Joseph Shalaby, follow J-O-S-E-P-H-S-H-A-L-A-B-Y. Buy my book, Rising From the Sand. It’s a story of struggles, a story of triumph, it’s a story of leadership, adversity, sales. Basically, you know, I threw the kitchen sink at everything I’ve done and the success, and it’s an immigrant story from dirt.

I’m from a third world. I’m from the cheap the poorest part of a third world from the third world of the third world I’m from a sixth world so and And then watch my show coffees for closers. You could find it anywhere. It’s just coffees with a Z You don’t have to look just look up coffee spelled with a Z. It’ll pop up everywhere on every platform And that’s it Joseph shall be and then if you follow Joseph Shelby You’ll be able to find my my podcast and e mortgage capital my company

Stephen Schmidt (29:33.217)
There you go folks. Go show them some love from the real estate pros and Investor Fuel. Appreciate you being here, Joe. And we’ll see you guys in the next episode.

Joe (29:38.7)
Hey, thanks Stephen, thanks for having me.