Unlocking VA Loans: Insights from a Military Officer Turned Mortgage Expert

Stephen Schmidt (00:02.894)
Welcome back to the show where we interview the nation’s leading man. I’m already tongue-tied. It’s only my second show of the day. Good grief. Welcome back to the show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs. It’s your host Stephen Schmidt and I got an absolute treat for you today. We’re going to be talking with Patton Gade. He’s in the studio. Pat and has a very colorful background. He graduated from West Point in 1994 and then had a

great military career, got out of that. He’s been in the mortgage space since 2014. And now his big passion is really helping people to secure a VA loan, other service members. And he is an absolute rock star in terms of helping people getting started in their real estate investing portfolios for people that have that background. So we’re going to go all over the place today. We’re going have a great conversation and we’re going to talk about his expertise, what he’s passionate about, some of the lessons that he’s been able to pick up in his

over five decades of living on this planet and some of the things maybe he would have liked to have done a little earlier on. So just before we get into it, remember at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers and real estate entrepreneurs, two to five X their businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted in order to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. That being said, Pat and welcome to the show.

Patton Gade (01:01.102)
Ha ha ha ha.

Patton Gade (01:19.91)
Thanks. Pleasure to be here. I look forward to it. Should be a lot of fun.

Stephen Schmidt (01:22.478)
You bet man. I agree. We had a great pre-show conversation. He’s one of the only guests that’s actually asked about my background, which made our conversation lasted a little longer than it usually does, but I appreciate that a ton. just for our listeners sake, Patton, can you give us a little bit of a background as to what got you started, where you’re at today, and go as far back as you need to, and what’s got you to where you’re at?

Patton Gade (01:50.182)
Yeah, you know, out of high school, I went straight to West Point and spent four years there, graduated in 1994, like you said earlier.

went to flight school, learned how to fly helicopters, which is, I always tell people, there’s a great way to spend your 20s. So I flew helicopters for eight and a half years, got out of the army in 2002 and went on and went into medical sales, learned how to sell and spent 12 years doing that. And then at some point I just kind of fell into mortgages. I met a guy that, or a guy that I knew a long time ago and he was like, dude, come work for me. And I was like, what do you do anyway? And he said,

I do mortgages and I’m like, well, I’ve been in sales now for 12 years. I’m a math geek and know, numbers sing to me. And so mortgages might work. And so I took a look at it and next, next thing you know, here I was slinging mortgages at a, in a call center, actually headphones, headset on 200 dials a day, you know, cold calling. It was a, it was an interesting start to the mortgage career, but

Stephen Schmidt (02:46.666)
No kidding.

Patton Gade (02:53.606)
Learned a lot from that. You get lot of at bats. You get to talk to a lot of people and see a lot of different situations. A lot of different financial situations. lot of different dreams and aspirations of what people are trying to do with their lives and using their house to set things up for the future.

Stephen Schmidt (03:13.822)
So when you first got started, was it? That seems like kind of a drinking out of the fire hose way to get started in a sales career and mortgages. You were in sales previous to that though?

Patton Gade (03:19.11)
100%.

Yeah, I’ve been in medical sales for 12 years. So sales wasn’t new to me. So talking to people wasn’t new to me. And for me it was interesting because when we’d get a lead in in the mortgage side, it would be…

Stephen Schmidt (03:27.341)
Yeah.

Patton Gade (03:35.494)
you know, it gives you a little bit of information. Maybe somebody was trying to purchase a home or maybe they were trying to refinance or whatever. But there was a box that had a little checkmark that would say veteran or VA loan. And I pretty quickly realized that, you know, veterans, like each other. Typically, we like to hang out with each other. We like to go have a beer together, stuff like that. Right. I always tell, you know, if if we have a neighborhood like barbecue or something like that, there are six or eight veterans in my neighborhood. And when everybody gets together, it’s funny. You look over the side.

and all the veterans are hanging out on one side of the backyard, having a beer together, telling stories about the old days or something like that. so the veteran to veteran connection is generally super tight. So when I saw somebody that said that they were a veteran on the lead, I would just be like, hey, so what service were you in? And they’d say, oh, I was in the Navy. And I’d say, oh, I was in the Army. And hey, we’re going to fight or what? And they’d laugh and I’d laugh. And that 30 second conversation would become a two minute conversation.

which would become a five minute conversation. Maybe we’re talking about the past and living our, we, things we did when we were young. And then 30 minutes in, we’re like, I’m like, dude, you wanted to talk about a refinance, let’s talk about what your options are. by that, now we’re friends, you know? And so then we’d go into the mortgage conversation. so over time that…

It started to build on itself and people started referring me to their friends and family and that’s kind how my mortgage business grew.

Stephen Schmidt (05:07.512)
Now, so coming from medical sales, that’s a very different place to come from too. My dad’s actually been in medical sales for over 40 years, so I’m very accustomed to that business growing up, hearing all the stories from that. it’s obviously way more B2B, right, versus B2C. So what made you look for a change at that point? Like, obviously you had that connection.

Patton Gade (05:29.126)
So I wasn’t really looking for a change. funny thing, I was working for a biotech company and things weren’t, so I first started off, I worked for Johnson & Johnson for gosh, eight years. Great company and we did a lot of good stuff and then I went to a spine company and so was in surgery for 10, 12, 14 hours in a day, watching people get their whole back reconstructed from pelvis to neck. And…

That wasn’t great, know, standing in the OR for 12 hours. That’s a long day. But then I went to this biotech company and…

things were not quite right, like my spidey sense was going off, like, hey, you know, there’s something not quite right at this company, and I called my wife and I said, hey, you what should I do? And she’s like, call that guy we had dinner with like six months ago, and that was the buddy of mine that was in mortgages. I didn’t know what he did, but I called him up and I go, hey, you know, you said come work for you, what do you do anyway? And he said, I do mortgages.

I go, OK, well, I think I can do that. So I ended up checking into it. And sure enough, that turned out to be something I like. But my spidey sense was right, because like six months after I left that company, I think our director of sales got arrested by the FBI for what was it?

Medicare fraud and bribery and all sorts of stuff. So was glad I got out of there when I did. I don’t know if anybody else went down over some stuff that was going on. I didn’t know anything that was going on. I just knew that something didn’t quite feel right. You talk to somebody and you can tell when they’re kind of weaseling around. something wasn’t quite right. I just, I took a shot at mortgages and turns out I’m pretty decent at it and have a lot of fun doing it.

Stephen Schmidt (07:01.454)
Yeah.

Stephen Schmidt (07:10.21)
Now, so you’ve been in that business for 11 years. How long did you work with your friend at that time before you decided to venture off onto your own? now it sounds like you’ve got your own team and such.

Patton Gade (07:18.65)
So probably, gosh, I worked with him from 2014 until 2021. So like seven years, we spent working at the same place. It was two different places, but spent seven years doing that basic thing. then at that point, I didn’t really need to do the consumer direct stuff anymore. didn’t have to, because my business had gotten to the tipping point to where I had so many past clients and so many people that I’d done a good job for that they were referring me, their friends and family. And so my business just kind of

organically grew that way. It wasn’t through anything genius that I did or anything like that. It was just kind of an organic, just a natural flow of things.

Stephen Schmidt (07:58.894)
Now, so when did you go out on your own?

Patton Gade (08:02.694)
I’m not technically on my own. mean, I still work for a pretty big company, yeah, we have, you know, I’ve got a team of about 15 people that I’ve grown within our organization. And so it’s… Go ahead.

Stephen Schmidt (08:18.67)
Would you consider who you were working with, would you consider them really your first mentor in the business? Or was it more just like they just brought you on and gave you a job?

Patton Gade (08:25.264)
For sure. Well, he was president of the bank, so I don’t know that necessarily it was a direct mentorship. Like we’ve had a of mentorship talks over the years. But you know, when I first got into the business, was really my branch manager that I spent, you know, every time you’d hang up the phone and have a conversation with somebody, was something new, something I’d never heard before, because I’d never been in the mortgage business. Heck, I did a VA loan.

you know, 25 years ago the first house I ever bought was with a VA loan and I didn’t even know it was a VA loan. I didn’t know what type of loan it was. So I’ve done two or three or four mortgages in my life.

before I got into mortgages and had no idea what I did or how I did it. And it kind of goes to show like I’m a pretty smart guy, but, but I had no idea what was going on in the mortgage space. And so there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of trust that people are putting in their mortgage in their loan officer. Right. And so you got to be an expert at stuff. You got to know what you’re doing. You got to really understand your client super well to be able to put them in the best position to meet their, their goals longterm. And you know, that’s a big part of what

we do every day is, mean, sometimes it’s counseling, right? Hey, you gotta do something a little bit better with your finances to get to where you wanna go. Here’s things you can do. But yeah, he was a mentor in some respects, but my first branch manager and I spent a lot of time talking about mortgages.

Stephen Schmidt (09:53.016)
What was the biggest risk you took early on?

Patton Gade (09:56.474)
Well, mortgages is purely, it’s purely commission. Like there’s no salary, so 100 % commission sales job. And, know, I had a wife, I had kids.

You know, had a mortgage payment, had car payments, all that stuff and getting into a business that has absolutely, I mean, it really isn’t a safety net, so to speak. You eat what you kill and you know, if you close zero loans, you’re going to get paid zero dollars. So there’s, there was, I didn’t really have a big safety net at the time. I’ve gone through some stuff personally that had impacted my financial situation pretty drastically. And

So yeah, there’s a lot of risk there.

Stephen Schmidt (10:42.114)
Yeah, I mean, you’ve already heard my story too. And that’s what I’m always curious on is for people that end up in those situations, because I went from having a pretty decent salary plus commissions to, you don’t have a job anymore and you’re moving to a place you don’t know anybody, right? So on top of that, I didn’t know anybody where I was moving. And so I was able to turn that into a pretty successful marketing operation, not…

Patton Gade (10:45.733)
Yeah.

Stephen Schmidt (11:09.83)
Wildly I’m not one of those guys driving a Lambo around in the ads going hey, here’s my you know thousand dollar course you can buy and I’ll show you how to drive a Lambo through marketing and I actually did the work for people but When you when you did that

Patton Gade (11:22.512)
Yeah.

Stephen Schmidt (11:26.374)
and we don’t have to get into the specifics necessarily of like the finances and whatnot, but how long was it, how long did it take for you to really get your stride for somebody that’s maybe looking at getting into mortgages, but doesn’t have seven months to wait until it starts to get good.

Patton Gade (11:42.426)
Yeah, you know, that’s a really good question and it’s something I spend a lot of time talking with people that want to get into mortgages is you’ve got to have a little bit of wiggle room. You’ve got to have a little bit of…

a little bit of a safety net typically. know, somebody that’s maybe retired from the military or something like that, that has, you military retirement coming in and can meet their basic needs without having too much pressure on them. Cause I think the mistake that, you if I talk to somebody and they’ve got three young kids and their spouse doesn’t work or something like that, and they’re like, hey, I want to get into mortgages. And I go, how much savings do you have? And they go, I got…

you five grand in the bank. you know, that’s a, that’s a little bit different conversation. Like this, this may not be the business for you because I mean, frankly, you know, if today was my first day in the business, I talked to you and you decided you were buying a house and you were using me, I’d get you pre-qualified and now you’re shopping for a house and you find a house, let’s say this weekend, it’s not going to close for 30 days and then you don’t get a paycheck till, you know, two weeks after that. So it’s going to be minimum 45 to 60 days. And that’s if you’re successful right away.

getting a deal. So you have to be able to weather a little bit of a storm, know, a number of months. If you can carry yourself through a few months, it can be a great career, especially if you have a big network of people that you know that already like you and trust you. A lot of that like and trust translates into the mortgage business really nicely.

Stephen Schmidt (13:13.23)
Right. And so how long was it for you before you like really hit a stride in the business? Because it’s similar to like roofing where I come from. It takes 90 days really for a claim to pay out and that’s when most people make money but most people don’t realize you’ve got to be able to eat for three months, four months before you start making any real money.

Patton Gade (13:18.918)
I mean it was…

Patton Gade (13:27.834)
That’s right.

Yeah, I don’t know that I really, mean it took, there’s a lot of different ways to do this business. I mean, there’s people that work primarily with.

you maybe some realtors or things like that. So if you knew, you know, 10 realtors that were going to give you their business, maybe you’re going to ramp up pretty quickly. If you’re going to go to, you know, a call center type environment, which, which is a great place to learn this business because you get, you get 20, 30, 40, 50 at bats every single day. And so you’re able to learn, you know, see a lot of different things, hear a of different things and, and maybe accelerate your learning curve quite a bit. And so if you’re able to do that, then maybe it’s only takes a couple of months before you

you’re starting to close deals and starting to generate some income. If you’re starting from completely scratch and it’s going to be a completely self-sourced deal where you’re not getting a bunch of leads from your employer or something like that, it might take you six months before you really start closing enough deals to where you’re able to live off of it. And so that’s the key thing is you got to able to weather that storm initially, but it can be pretty lucrative on the other side if you get good at it.

Stephen Schmidt (14:40.814)
Which ultimately, I think Alex Hormozzi, if you’re familiar with him, he talks about it in the sense of until you put a thousand hours into anything that you’re doing, you won’t understand how much it’s actually going to require of you for you to have success in it and how much work it’ll actually take. But you’ll also get to that point where you also have some comfort in knowing how much that actually is.

Patton Gade (14:56.006)
Right.

Patton Gade (15:04.006)
That’s right. Yeah.

Stephen Schmidt (15:05.166)
100%. So, what’s your, I know we’ve touched on this a little bit, but tell us a little bit more about your specialty and your niche within the real estate world and specifically on the mortgage side.

Patton Gade (15:13.07)
Yeah, so my niche is VA loans and you know, there are a lot of

there are a lot of people that just don’t understand VA loans. that was one of the things I realized early on. And there’s a lot of misconceptions and really small wives tales out there in the real estate world around VA loans. I could give you whole list of them if you want them. there’s some bad information out there. And so I realized that in general, a VA client is maybe somewhat disadvantaged in a lot of markets to be able to go and use the benefit that they earned.

There’s maybe don’t have to put a down payment down, but there’s real skin in the game. People losing limbs with that are now eligible for VA loans, right? There’s definitely skin in the game.

You know, they’re just disadvantaged because the realtors may have never seen a VA loan offer or they’ve never, you know, as a buyer agent, maybe they’ve never handled a VA loan at all if they’re not near a military base or where there’s a lot of retirees or whatnot. And so, so they just don’t know what they don’t know. And so that’s what I realized pretty early. And so I, I’m like, man, I got to get good at this because I care about these people a lot. These are all my friends. These are all my family.

are all the people I’ve spent most of my adult life around and they need to be taken care of in appropriate way. that’s why I started focusing on VA loans.

Stephen Schmidt (16:45.966)
And so what do you do that differentiates yourself from other people that have this in their portfolio to offer but you really specifically focus on the nitty-gritty of it?

Patton Gade (16:57.734)
Well, at the end of the day, pretty much any loan officer is capable of doing a VA loan.

Right? If you talk to a loan officer at such and such a bank, they’re probably technically capable of doing a VA loan. But there some nuances to a VA loan that are completely different than any other type of loan. There’s a whole other set of guidelines and a lot of nuance that… The VA is very gray in the way they explain some of the guidelines in the VA pamphlet that gives all the rules.

And because of those gray areas, get nervous about them. There’s not necessarily a cut and dried answer. So a lot of it’s experience. The average, I want to say, 95 % of loan officers do fewer than two VA loans a year. I think that’s what the number was. So if you’re doing 50 loans and you only do two of them as a VA loan, it’s kind of like if you’re a golfer and you only golf one time a year, you probably suck.

You know, you’re going to be hitting the ball all over the place. But if you golf two times a week, you’re going be gripping the ball down the fairway. It’s the same way with really anything you do, right? Repetition breeds excellence. once you’ve done a lot of it, you know, there’s really nothing you haven’t seen in that niche. the other part of it is, is I speak the language of the veteran.

Right? We, I’ve walked in those boots. know exactly what it’s like to PCS across the country from one place to another and potentially someplace you’ve never been before in your life. you don’t know anyone potentially. You don’t know, you don’t know the neighborhoods. You don’t know the schools. You don’t know, you don’t know anything that your family is going to face when they get there. And, you know, so I’ve, I’ve lived that life to where I’m literally, you know, moving from Korea to Fort Hood, Texas. It’s never been to Fort Hood, Texas in my life, you know, and here.

Patton Gade (18:54.312)
I am showing up, needing to find a place to live, finding my new unit, all those sorts of things. So I’ve been through that. And so being able to be there and walk alongside somebody that’s going through those same things and then take a lot of the weight off there, a lot of the pressure off of them by giving them the advice that they need or linking them up with a realtor that you know is highly qualified to take care of a VA client. Those are the things that I can do for people that probably, people that don’t do a lot of VA loans or have never been in the military, they’re going to have a hard

much harder time connecting with that client.

Stephen Schmidt (19:27.278)
Are there any misconceptions about VA loans that bother you or that come up every now and then that you’re able to put to bed?

Patton Gade (19:34.726)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, the biggest one is people go, well, you don’t have, you’re not putting a down payment down. You must, you must be a financially weak buyer. And that’s just not true. mean, I’ve done, I’ve done $4 million VA loans. I promise you that that buyer was not a financially weak buyer, even though they were putting down $0 on a $4 million purchase, right? You still got to be able to afford that $25 or $30,000 monthly payment.

So zero down does not equal financially weak. There are people that complain about like the VA appraisal process, but you know, I think the VA appraisal process is the strongest process in the mortgage industry because the VA actually gives you as a realtor, it actually gives you two opportunities to affect the value. So there’s one thing that the VA allow or the appraiser, if they think the appraisal might come in low,

they have to do what they call a tidewater notice and that’s essentially like, realtors, I need some cops to support this sales price.

So that’s that’s chance number one for realtors to affect the appraised value before the appraised value even comes out. You don’t get that any other type of loan. And then if the appraised value still comes in low, you actually get a second opportunity where you can the veteran can go to the VA and say, hey, you know, the appraisal came in low. I’d like to do a reconsideration of value. And that actually goes over the appraiser’s head straight to the VA and the VA will review that and potentially adjust the value if they see fit based on the circumstances.

So it gives you two opportunities to do it. So the VA appraisal, I think, is the best in the business. And frankly, I see a ton of them actually come in above value. And that’s something realtors are like, man, appraisals come in low. No, they don’t. That’s an old wives tale. VA appraisals come in at or above purchase price more often than conventional or FHA loans.

Stephen Schmidt (21:24.397)
Mm.

Stephen Schmidt (21:31.936)
Wow. Now, so, when did you, at what point in your business did you go from solopreneur to having a team?

Patton Gade (21:33.146)
So.

Patton Gade (21:41.958)
you know, early on I was actually promoted to be a branch manager and you know, that was, that was, it was early in my mortgage career because I had a lot of leadership and,

management experience. So, you know, obviously been in the military for as an officer for eight plus years in West Point and, you know, 12 years in uniform. And then, and then in my, in my medical sales career, I was a, I was a manager. So I managed, you know, 10 people across the Western United States. And so I had a lot of management experience. So they promoted me to be like sales manager in my office pretty quickly.

probably before I was ready because I had the leadership and management skills but not necessarily the mortgage skills to match it up. And so that I, it was probably a mistake on my part to let them do that because I…

You don’t make nearly as much money managing people as you do actually doing it yourself in a lot of instances. And it’s certainly true in the mortgage industry. So, you know, I spent a ton of time teaching and training people and not making very much money off of what they were doing. And it took time away from me actually generating my own business. And so that probably sent me back a little bit. So, so later on, I went back to kind of being a solo guy. And then after when

hit, I got so flippin busy because rates dropped super low, you know, and my business started to really, really explode. And I was like, man, I’m working 22 hours a day. I mean, literally the first few days of COVID when interest rates dropped for like a 10 day period. And I was working from like 4.35 in the morning until midnight or one in the morning. And I’d come to bed and my wife would be like,

Patton Gade (23:33.926)
Did you have a good day? And I’m like, I had a good month today. it was so, you it was so, you laugh, it was seriously like a good month at that point might be, you know, $4 million of loans. And I, know, the first day I did like $7 million of loans. And I’m like,

Stephen Schmidt (23:37.366)
Yeah

Right.

Patton Gade (23:54.136)
I can’t keep doing this. And so then I had to start going, okay, I need to find some people that can help handle some of this volume. And so that’s when my team started to grow. But the thing with me was I was looking for good people. It was more important for me to find somebody that was a good person, a good human being, not necessarily somebody that…

had 20 years of mortgage experience. I just wanted good people that could come in and treat my customer the way I felt like they needed to be treated.

Stephen Schmidt (24:27.414)
sense. So let me ask you this kind of as a closing question. If you were able to go back to when you first got started but you could take all of the experience and what you’ve learned and what you know today back with you, what would you do different and what would you do the same?

Patton Gade (24:43.194)
So what would I do different? You know, think one of the things that drives me, Stephen, is that, you know, the VA loan’s a super, super powerful tool. And a lot of people know about it, but honestly, I think out of the eligible veterans in the United States, something like less than 15 % of them have ever used their VA loan.

And I think that’s a trap, Steve, especially because I know how powerful it can be in building long-term wealth through the real estate channel, right? And so I go back and I think about myself as a 21-year-old lieutenant at Fort Hood or 22 or 23 or whatever it was when I got there. And I saw people around me buying houses and I was like, man, you must be rich, you’re buying a house. And I was 24 years old, not knowing that I had a VA loan benefit. Didn’t even know it existed.

And, you know, when I was in flight school, the guy that owned, there was probably a dozen quadplexes on my street and he was an old retired officer and he owned every single one of them. He had like 40 doors on this one street and he was renting them to a bunch of flight school people and he had constant, constant churn. Somebody move out, somebody move in two days later kind of thing. Like there was never any vacancy on this street.

And it never keyed to me. Something didn’t click in my mind as a 21, 22, 23, 24-year-old. And now I go, man, had I gotten into real estate back then, maybe I’d be sitting here with 30 or 40 or 50 doors. I would have been prepared to use the tools that I had at my disposal at that point in time in order to start the journey earlier in my life.

You know, and, and so, you know, when I talk to these young guys that are, know, 18, 19, 20, 23 years old, um, and helping them start to use the VA loan to do some really awesome stuff and to get started in this journey. Like I’ve got, I’ve got one couple that I’ve helped, you know, I’ve met them in 20, probably early, late 2018, maybe young, young soldier and helped them buy their second house with a VA loan after they’d been told no three times by their banks that didn’t know what

Patton Gade (26:53.704)
they were doing with VA loans. Got him into their second house, he got out of the Army and they bought their third house. And then they refinanced their other two houses. And then they just recently moved out of that third house and bought a fourth house. Well, he’s out of the Army. He’s got some VA disability and stuff. He’s got residual income coming in from three other houses. And he and his young family, young kids, live on a little hobby farm in Alabama. they got those little miniature cows that are like,

yay big or something, you know what I’m talking about? You see those little men, they got some of those, they ride their ATVs and they got their tractor and they got 10 acres or whatever and the kids are having the time of their lives, they got mom and dad involved in their life every day because mom and dad don’t have to go work, trade their time for money at a job because they’ve done it right with real estate. so being able to help people like that and really change their lives and get a note from them at the end of the day, then they go, thank you.

Stephen Schmidt (27:24.714)
Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Schmidt (27:45.998)
Mm.

Patton Gade (27:53.496)
you so much for helping us create this life. You know, and that’s a powerful thing and those are the kind of things I wish I could go back. you know, so the one thing different would be that, you know. One thing that’s the same, man, wish I would have learned mortgages a long time ago.

Stephen Schmidt (28:16.962)
Really?

Patton Gade (28:16.966)
Because it’s a, I love the interaction. I love talking to people. I love hearing their stories. I love hearing their hopes and dreams. I love being able to take a step back. You know, when you’re in your own mess, maybe financially and emotionally and whatever, you can’t really see the forest for the trees sometimes. And so I can take a look at it, at their whole situation from a 30,000 foot view and kind of go, okay, you want to get over here, but here’s where you are today.

Here’s how you can start to change things and structure things to get to where you want to go. Help them create that life for themselves. Like that’s a lot of fun. I don’t know if I answered your question or not, but yeah.

Stephen Schmidt (28:56.27)
You’ve got hard to see the picture when you’re in the frame. No, that did for sure. So if people want to connect with you for more or learn more about you, Pat, and where should they go for that?

Patton Gade (29:07.268)
Well, you can Google me. I Google pretty well. If you Google, I think I’m one of the few patents around there. But my cell phone is easily accessible there. My email is easily accessible there. I’ll give you my personal email, though. It’s just my first name, not last name. So patton gade at gmail.com. You could reach out to me there at any time. I’d be happy to chat with anybody that needed some advice.

Stephen Schmidt (29:11.873)
I can imagine.

Stephen Schmidt (29:17.869)
Sure.

Stephen Schmidt (29:38.06)
Awesome. Well, folks, hope you enjoyed today’s show. We’ll see you in the next episode. Thanks again for being here, Patton.

Patton Gade (29:44.048)
Thanks, appreciate you.

Stephen Schmidt (29:45.592)
You got it.