
Show Summary
In this conversation, John Blackburn shares his journey in real estate, discussing the transition from being a real estate agent to focusing on property investing, particularly turnkey rental properties. He emphasizes the importance of mentorship, accountability, and the need for a solid business model in the real estate market. Blackburn also discusses the challenges of investing in virtual markets, branding strategies, and current trends in real estate, providing valuable insights for aspiring investors.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
John Harcar (00:01.312)
All right. Hey guys, welcome back to our show. Iโm your host, John Harcar, and Iโm here today with John Blackburn. And what weโre going to talk a little bit today is about turnkey rental properties. Hey guys, remember at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers, I mean all real estate entrepreneurs, two to five X your business by providing tools and resources to grow the business you want to grow, which helps live the life that youโve always dreamed of. John, welcome to the show.
John Blackburn (00:19.118)
you
John Blackburn (00:28.472)
Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. Excited for our conversation today and see where this goes.
John Harcar (00:33.328)
Yeah, me too. I know I have a couple of rentals and I know that a lot of other folks are, even that even in the real estate space have thought about getting rentals because we know that real estate can build the wealth. But before we get into all that, do me a favor and tell our audience a little bit about you, kind of your background, how you got into real estate and kind of what got you here.
John Blackburn (00:53.934)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, back in 2005, 2006, we all remember those amazing years in real estate. One of my good friends from home was a real estate agent and I was in college and he convinced me to get my real estate license and any real estate agent could sell a house at that point in time. So I had immense success right out of the gates. then 2008, 2009 hit and life got a little bit ugly. I focused, I knew real estate was the game after I graduated college, but
John Harcar (01:00.464)
Mm.
John Harcar (01:12.634)
Sure.
John Blackburn (01:23.888)
being an agent wasnโt working any longer. So thatโs where my focus turned to investing. just like everyone else, right? You start wholesaling, you do your first fix and flip, you see if you have the metal to handle the stress and you just grow up from there. over the years, Iโve been really lucky to create a lot of really amazing relationships, which has ultimately helped me expand and focus on rental properties.
John Harcar (01:40.996)
Mmm.
John Blackburn (01:53.76)
property investing, is really my core business for the most part.
John Harcar (01:59.652)
Got it, okay, so youโre listing properties back in, know, before the crash, the crash comes, you had to pivot, right? So what type of mindset did you have to have in that change? And then what kind of challenges did you come across as far as, you know, now getting into wholesaling?
John Blackburn (02:04.461)
Mm-hmm.
John Blackburn (02:17.741)
Yeah, I you know, I was a real estate agent. was 20, 21, 22 years old around those times, you know, and, and, you know, youโre, youโre broke, right? You barely have any credits, right? know, you get that first commission check for six grand and you think itโs the most amazing thing in the world. So, you know, by the time the market swung, you know, I didnโt know anything about economics. Iโm just like, Oh, why canโt we get financing for houses anymore? Right? Like that was my mindset back then. And, you know, so youโre like, what are the other ways to do that? And, and, know, itโs like,
what everybody else does, right? You start Googling, you start looking for people that have done it already. And, you know, I was lucky enough to meet my mentors, Dan Merrill and Paul Sajan, who at one point owned Fortune Builders. They had moved to San Diego about the same time I did. And thatโs what kick started me into the wholesaling and rehabbing game was meeting them, you know, meeting their team, learning their education and their process. And ultimately I, you know, went to work with them for a while.
John Harcar (03:00.528)
Mm-hmm.
John Blackburn (03:17.615)
for about eight or nine years but at the same time build a real estate investing business too.
John Harcar (03:23.748)
Did you seek out, Than and the other gentlemen, did you seek out a mentor or why was it important for you to find that piece versus, I mean, heck, YouTube you or any other information thatโs out there on the internet.
John Blackburn (03:37.71)
Yeah, want to, Iโll give you the short but insider story, if you will. So yes, I was searching for a mentor. That was happening and I knew of Fortune Builders, I knew of Thane, I also knew of who was the guy in Texas, Montelongo I think in Texas and some other people in that industry at that point in time. And guess who moves into the condo across from me when I moved to California? Fortune Builders.
John Harcar (03:45.498)
Please.
John Harcar (03:56.931)
Mm-hmm.
John Blackburn (04:07.863)
CMO and at one point she turned into my wife. So she introduced, yeah thereโs a backstory, she introduced me to you know.
John Harcar (04:13.449)
Whoa, okay, okay, okay. So thereโs a little backstory there.
John Blackburn (04:21.459)
and I was like, my God, I was just looking at these guys on Google and now Iโm at a barbecue with these guys. So thatโs pretty awesome. You know, unfortunately, you know, that marriage didnโt work out, but you know, it changed the course of my life and the trajectory of investing. So I was actively looking and then the world conspired to put me in the right place.
John Harcar (04:42.32)
about to say, know, that thatโs kind of the epitome of right place, right time, I guess, in a sense, and on all aspects, not just the ability to find these mentors, but a wife as well. So you start wholesaling, right? At what point did you kind of start thinking like, you I want to start stepping the game up, maybe doing some flips, maybe holding properties. I mean, what, where did that kind of process lead you or guide you?
John Blackburn (04:46.014)
Yeah, yeah.
John Blackburn (04:50.157)
Right now, right? Yeah.
John Blackburn (05:04.427)
Yeah, a few things. First was, you know, I startedโฆ
I started flipping houses very early on. I maybe wholesale a couple properties and I was like, all right, I need to get in this flipping game because itโs more consistent. I think personally itโs less work than wholesaling properties. So I jumped into that super quickly just because I wanted to find more consistency. I was really into it. Everybody wants to have their own HGTV show. that was the mindset, was like, like, you know.
John Harcar (05:13.69)
Okay.
John Harcar (05:23.632)
Mmm.
John Harcar (05:32.784)
Especially then.
John Blackburn (05:38.478)
I felt like wholesaling was kind of your entry level point. I wanted to move through that entry level point as quickly as possible. So thatโs really how I went into the game. then after I started that, Than and Paul, at that point in time, they had flipped hundreds of homes. This was probably 15, 20 years ago at this point. Than had said something to me. was like, man, the biggest regret that I had, and this is someone whoโs now worth $100 million, so how many regrets could
John Harcar (05:56.921)
Yeah.
John Blackburn (06:08.471)
somebody have at that point. But he goes, the biggest regret that I had man that I didnโt hold more properties that I purchased, right? Itโs like if I could go back and make do anything different my real estate career that would be it. I took that to heart. I was like, shit, okay, I should probably listen to this guy. And thatโs where my mind shift, mindset shift came of like I need to not only fix and flip and grow this business, but I also need to really pay attention to holding properties as well too.
John Harcar (06:10.052)
bright.
John Harcar (06:33.776)
Got it, okay. So when youโre flipping these properties, how many properties did you start buying? Did you keep every other one? Did you keep ones that just kind of fit your specific buy box or what you want to hold or?
John Blackburn (06:47.679)
Yeah, so I took a little bit different approach. So I was investing, like I was doing fix and flips and I still am today in Connecticut. And if anybody knows anything about Connecticut, itโs brutally expensive. Itโs like Southern California, but with snow. So it doesnโt make sense to, donโt know why people would live there, right? High taxes, high property costs, so on and so forth. Itโs not a really good rental market. So what I did was I basically said, hey, if I can stand on the gas on my flipping business,
I can get these big checks coming in and then Iโm just gonna translate, instead of keeping every second property or keeping every third property, every third property I sell, I use those proceeds to go buy a rental in a good market. So that was the process that I took and thatโs how I kinda got into the turnkey game because I was like, Iโm focused on growing a business, a lot of my clients are focused on their W-2 job, but we still wanna invest in real estate, so thatโs theโฆ
direction that I went with it.
John Harcar (07:49.744)
What were the challenges of flipping on the other side of the country?
John Blackburn (07:55.513)
Um, I donโtโฆ Yeah, you know what the funny thing is? I donโt know the difference, man. Like, Iโve never flipped a house where I could drive to it and just see it, right? So itโs like, everyoneโs like, what were the challenges? I was like, I donโt know what the challenges would be different from doing it your backyard.
John Harcar (07:55.952)
Because a virtual flip is not easy, I canโt imagine.
John Harcar (08:01.68)
Really?
John Harcar (08:06.266)
Hmm, okay. Okay, right?
John Blackburn (08:15.573)
I had my project manager, I had a really, really good relationship with him. And that, I think that solved a lot of problems that you normally otherwise would have. I just had a really awesome project manager. I have a second project manager now thatโs just as equally as amazing. they handled 99 % of it from a boots on the ground standpoint. Theyโre my eyes and ears. I trust them fully. And that allows me to just focus on acquisitions and business strategy.
John Harcar (08:44.236)
Okay. So your project manager is the one that would bring all the trades guys. Theyโd bring all the contractors and all that kind of stuff. So youโre just kind of like hands off and once you get a property, turn it over to them and, kind of, you know, I guess manage it from a 30,000 foot view, right? In a sense.
John Blackburn (08:49.995)
Yep. Yep.
John Blackburn (08:59.457)
Yeah, I mean, have SOPs in place, right? You know, our project managers put together all of the scopes of work. I sit down and review the scope of work and approve it with them. And then we have weekly meetings. We have one meeting every single week where we review each property, you know, budget, timeline, you know, any issues, change orders, things of that nature. And yeah, so thatโs, we review pictures and obviously, and all of those things. But other than that, they manage everything in the day to day.
John Harcar (09:27.652)
Very cool. So what does your business look like now?
John Blackburn (09:30.958)
Yeah, so we fix and flip and still wholesale properties on a monthly basis, right? For me, direct mail is my bread and butter forโฆ
Leads in New Haven and Hartford County. We spent you know, 20 30,000 direct mail pieces every month We do some PPL we do that and thatโs thatโs how we get the leads and we just crank and then on the other side of it so I have a second business where you know, I was Working with fortune builders, you know educating myself learning how to build a rental property portfolio like I just I saw this need like you know, weโre
or hoodwinked or undereducated in terms of how to invest in real estate or really invest at all period, whether it comes to stock market, crypto, whatever, you name it, we donโt know it, right? And real estateโs my bag. So we created this company called Turnkey Property Pros where we sit down with someone who wants to buy rental properties, build out an entire financial investing strategy for them, surrounded by rental properties, and then help them find and acquire those properties.
Itโs kind the next evolution of what weโve been doing the last couple years.
John Harcar (10:46.028)
it. And then, so Iโm curious because, you know, I talked to a lot of folks and, you know, a lot of them do do some mail. What kind of response rates are you getting in mail? you know, have you seen those tick up? You know, have you seen them go down?
John Blackburn (11:01.237)
Yeah, I mean, weโre always tested measuring everything, right? You know, I think industry average right now is half a percent for direct mail. For us, we try to keep it at just above a percent, right? You know, if we fall behind that percentage, that usually means that, you know, either that list or that mail piece is getting fatigued. And depending on how long each oneโs been running, weโll adjust one or the other to kind of see. yeah, I mean, you know, direct mail.
Direct mail is obviously not the highest response rate, but what Iโve always found is direct mail is consistent as heck. If you put mail on the street, you will get phone calls and you will get deals. Like if I say, if Iโm gonna do 30,000 mailers, Iโm gonna walk away this month with six deals. We just do that and thatโs how it works.
John Harcar (11:38.554)
Mmm.
John Harcar (11:51.17)
Okay. Okay. And I donโt think I asked this before. Why specifically did you choose Connecticut or how did you choose that as a virtual market?
John Blackburn (12:01.043)
Yeah, well, we had talked about earlier, you know, I had met at that time my wife and thatโs where she was from. She was from Connecticut, actually. So thatโs, I was from Pennsylvania, she was from Connecticut. You know, she had family in Connecticut. So I started to still just invest there because it was easy. And yeah, and you know.
John Harcar (12:10.156)
okay.
John Blackburn (12:24.905)
Even a marriage later, Iโm still investing there. I still love the market. Itโs a super popular market. Itโs still really a sellerโs market at this point in time. So we love investing there.
John Harcar (12:35.118)
Right. What do you think are important things for folks to look at when theyโre gauging or looking at a virtual market? Because, know, a lot of folks maybe want to think about the big markets, you know, the markets in Texas and Florida and maybe Vegas, but, know, some of these smaller markets, what are the key things to look for?
John Blackburn (12:46.273)
Mm-hmm.
John Blackburn (12:53.781)
Yeah, for me, Iโm always gonna look at cost, right? What isโฆ
What is my price point? What is my buy-in? So I always like to mitigate my risk. I always like to invest and flip properties where my ARV is within 20 % of the median home value. Because our median home value is where our biggest buyer pull is. Thatโs always gonna be where most people, the majority of new buyers are gonna be able to afford. So I wanna look at that. Like in San Diego, our median home buyer price point is like $750,000 $850,000.
John Harcar (13:28.688)
Iโll say a million bucks.
John Blackburn (13:30.51)
Yeah, itโs like insane, right? And youโre like, I have to spend that much money to do this property, right? Where in Connecticut, that median is like 350, right? And youโre like, okay, I can get in at two, I can do a renovation and be out at 350. So that helps to keep my risk down, right, number one. And then number two, if you really wanna dig deep, then you can start looking at the economics of a city, right? Population growth, you know.
John Harcar (13:31.824)
Right
John Blackburn (13:55.522)
what type of socioeconomic anchors jobs are in those areas, right? Whatโs driving that economy, whether itโs in decline or increasing. So thereโs several things, but first I would always start with price, and then from there, you can move on to the economics of the city themselves.
John Harcar (14:12.336)
And with these smaller markets, right? Itโs probably maybe a more case of you you might be known, you know, people might talk. Itโs a smaller market, right? So how did you go in and brand yourself in there? Obviously not being in Connecticut. How did you brand yourself into that virtual market?
John Blackburn (14:29.389)
Yeah, you know, one thing thatโฆ
you do over years of investing. When you start out branding yourself, for me, I never worried about branding myself. I never worried about having my face on a billboard. I was like, just need my first deal. Letโs go get our first deal and thatโs all that matters. And what happens is over time, you start to see a correlation. You and I were talking about before the call, data. So the same list you mailed to is the same list that youโre cold calling is the same list that you text.
messaging, theyโre the same type of people that youโre doing TV commercials to, which weโve done all of this over the years, right? So, you you just you show up in front of these people in nine different ways and then that creates the brand, especially with sellers. And for me, I donโt really care, you know, what my brand is to other real estate agents or whatever. I just want sellers to know my name, right? And by, you know, one, giving yourself time and two, exercising different marketing avenues, you know, youโre ultimately, even though itโs not 100 %
John Harcar (15:24.016)
Yep. Yep.
John Blackburn (15:34.144)
perfect, but nine out of ten times youโre gonna be marketing to the same person through multiple different channels, right? Just because, you know, if you look at all of how AI pulls the stress data on each person, youโre just gonna wind up there, right? So, you know, thatโs how you create your brand and name and then produce a good product at the end of the day. You know, I had, I was probably a year or two into the business and
John Harcar (15:48.624)
Mm-hmm.
John Blackburn (16:03.509)
I had a property inspector.
for one of my buyers that was coming in to buy a flip, property inspector called me after he did the inspection. He goes, hey man, you know, I normally donโt do this, but I just wanted to give you a call and let you know that you produce the best product in Connecticut out of any of the flippers that Iโve done inspections on. And I just want to say that I appreciate that for you. And I was like, man, I really, thank you. And heโs like, I tell all my buyers or all my clients that get an inspection from me for one of your properties that thatโs the best.
John Harcar (16:24.464)
Wow.
John Harcar (16:29.231)
awesome.
John Blackburn (16:36.911)
renovated property in Connecticut and I was like couldnโt ask for more than that you know so produce a good product the word will get out
John Harcar (16:42.384)
Yeah, Yeah, let your results speak for themselves. Thatโs awesome. Inorganic branding is the best branding of all, right? When youโre not going out and forcing it on people, just from the fruits of your labor, per se, right? So letโs talk about your turnkey rental business, OK? So you created this. Why? Why did you see the need to have a turnkey rental business? Or why did you feel the need to create one?
John Blackburn (16:54.763)
Yep, exactly.
John Blackburn (17:04.022)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you know, why does anybody else, you know, create a business? Because usually the individual thatโs creating the business had the need to begin with and then saw that more people had it, right? And I was in the same position, right? You knowโฆ
Iโve been in the turnkey space now for probably 11 or 12, 13 years. Iโve seen the good, the bad, the ugly. Iโve seen that if you jump online and Google, I wanna buy turnkey real estate, right? There is no governing body on what is good turnkey real estate and what is bad turnkey real estate, right? And the word turnkey is the most bastardized term in real estate at this point in time, right? For me,
John Harcar (17:40.772)
Mm-hmm.
John Harcar (17:45.898)
I am 90%.
John Blackburn (17:50.24)
definition of turnkey is fully integrated, like linearly, right? The same company that finds the house is the same company that buys it, that renovates it, that tenants it, thatโs managed it. Thereโs a straight line of accountability across the board, right? But turnkeys use, oh, you know, I found it and then somebody else renovated it and somebody else is gonna manage it and you know, thatโs when you get into this mess of likeโฆ
non-performance from the property. you know, one, I wanted to have the opportunity to provide a product to someone that was really good, right? That when you said you were getting a 12 % return, you actually got a 12 % return. And, you know, thereโs so many people out there on a day-to-day basis that want to invest in real estate, but truly donโt have the time or really the desire to learn the ins and outs of it. But theyโre like, Iโd love to own real estate, but I donโt want to learn how to rehab a house, which I totally get. So, you know, that was, that was the base.
John Harcar (18:24.101)
Right?
John Blackburn (18:41.865)
premise for it is provide an amazing product and a service that I think is really wanted by investors across the United States.
John Harcar (18:48.248)
And how are you finding these clients that want to invest but donโt want to do any of this hammer swinging and all that type of stuff?
John Blackburn (18:54.263)
Yeah, we do all kinds of things. One, I come on podcasts like this. Two is we do direct paid marketing to consumers throughโฆ
you know, Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff. I do a lot of educating and talks with self-directed retirement companies. So Iโll go on and educate their students on, their clients on how they can use their self-directed retirement account to invest in.
rental properties. And lastly, we work with a couple of larger education companies, right? Like fix and flip education companies and educate their students on how they can invest. those are like the four or five main ways that we bring in clients to help service and help invest. Yep.
John Harcar (19:33.53)
Mm-hmm.
John Harcar (19:43.376)
Very cool. What kind of trends are you seeing in real estate here? You know now coming up the pipe etc
John Blackburn (19:51.074)
Yeah, I mean, you know, none of us have a crystal poll, but you know, I donโt seeโฆ
I donโt see real estate changing a whole lot in probably the course of the next 12 months. that, you know, weโll see what happens after this 90 day tariff stay, you know, surpasses, you know, that could definitely adjust things, but, you know, the only thing that I think could arguably adjust real estate at the moment is if rates are drastically lowered and, you know, the Fed and our current administration are not seeing eye eye on that. So I donโt think anythingโs going to happen anytime soon. So.
I think weโre just gonna hang out. Some markets are still sellerโs markets, some markets are buyerโs markets, if you look at Florida and Texas. I think itโs just gonna kinda be the status quo for a while.
You know, I always say this, thereโs never, perspective gives us the opportunity to learn, right? And the best learning that Iโve come at from starting in 2006, To being 20, 25 right now is always say, if you bought a house in 20, 20, 10, or sorry, if you bought a house in 20, 2006, in 2010, you were really, really, really pissed off. You bought that house in 2006, right?
But in 2025, youโre really, really, really pissed off you didnโt buy as many houses as you could in 2006, right? So thatโs perspective, right? Like just buy real estate. Like thatโs the end. I donโt care what the rate is, just buy it. Thatโs the end of story.
John Harcar (21:16.032)
then yeah.
John Harcar (21:24.804)
Yeah, and a lot of people say, hey, Iโm going to wait till things get better, know, maybe till rates lower. Well, what happens when rates lower? Prices go up. So, you know, itโs like. Exactly.
John Blackburn (21:32.045)
Itโs called, you marry your purchase price and you date your rate, right? Because you can always change your interest rate, you can never change your purchase price. Who cares what interest rates are? Make sure the purchase price. Yeah.
John Harcar (21:42.032)
Thatโs 100%. I think thatโs one of the better nuggets, better nuggets Iโve gotten on one of these podcasts lately. So what advice would you give to somebody that maybe wants to start getting into whether itโs turnkey, whether itโs flipping, investing as a whole? What advice would you say that has been a key to your success?
John Blackburn (22:01.599)
I I hear all these people talk about mentors, right? mentor, I donโt think is the right term or the right type of person that you need to support you, right? What I would call is someone that is going to hold you accountable. Because I can go on YouTube and learn everything.
John Harcar (22:23.034)
ability.
John Blackburn (22:27.883)
Right? You know, I can go and, you know, get onโฆ
you know, all these forums or, you know, go pay, you know, $99 a month to have a membership somewhere and get the education I need. But what happens is people, you know, they tell themselves that information gathering is action and itโs not, itโs just information gathering. And, you know, I would rather have someone that knows nothing about real estate, but itโs willing to shove their foot up my butt every week and tell me like, go do this. You spent all this time, go do this, right? So find someone that will hold you accountable. If they know, if theyโre a master at what youโve already
John Harcar (22:56.762)
Yes.
John Blackburn (23:02.763)
done awesome right but you know instead of going and looking for a mentor go and look for someone thatโs gonna hold you accountable right friend family partner you know or someone who is in the real estate profession like thatโs thatโs the biggest thing because if youโre not held accountable youโre not gonna youโre not gonna get things accomplished
John Harcar (23:20.612)
Youโre not going to do anything. Youโll be stuck in that analysis paralysis. No action equals equals no reward. So, well, man, any other last words of advice youโd like to give our audience? Or plug a plug for for I know for your website, your turnkey business.
John Blackburn (23:24.077)
100%.
Yep.
John Blackburn (23:32.939)
Yeah, I mean it just goes back.
John Blackburn (23:39.128)
Yeah, well first and foremost, know, guys, the best time to invest in real estate was yesterday, right? Whether, you know, you and I work together or, you know, the only reason youโd probably be watching this is because you are in that mindset of you want to buy real estate, right?
The art of investing in real estate is very simple, right? The difficult part is taking action, right? And thatโs what you just need to be really good at. Not really good at investing in real estate, but really good at taking action. And for our team, everything we do is 100 % complimentary, right? We get paid if you buy a house. So itโs our job to make sure youโre educated and excited and know how to buy real estate. if you want, if youโre interested in investing in rental properties, turnkey property,
pros is plural.com so turnkeypropertypros.com. You can jump in and set up a time to chat with me or someone on my team and we can kind of figure out what your goals are for rental property investing and go from there.
John Harcar (24:41.358)
Awesome. Great information. John, thank you for coming on here and sharing all that. Guys, I hope that when youโre listening to these, youโre taking some good notes because he dropped some great nuggets. Really, think that accountability piece is huge to take action. John, thank you again for coming on, folks. I hope you guys had a good show. I know I did. And weโll see you on the next one. Cheers.
John Blackburn (25:03.143)
Absolutely, I see it.