The Power of Triple Net Leases: Maximize Your Investment Returns

Brett McCollum (00:00.87)
All right, guys, welcome back to the show. I am your host, Brett McCollum, and I am here today with Irwin Boris. And today we’re going to talk about triple net leases. Excited for this one, Before we do, at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers and real estate entrepreneurs to 2 to 5X their businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted and allow them to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. Without further ado, Irwin, how are you?

Irwin Boris (00:25.847)
great, thanks for having me today Brett.

Brett McCollum (00:27.418)
Man, thanks for being here, man. I’m excited for this one. We’re gonna talk, like I said, we’re talking about triple net leases and it’s not a topic that we do a lot of. So I’m genuinely excited to get into it. But before we do, kind of let’s back up, rewind a lot maybe and catch us up to speed. Who’s Erwin? How’d you get into real estate? All the things.

Irwin Boris (00:47.758)
Sure. When the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I went to college, I have an undergraduate degree in accounting. I’ve taken the CPA exam. I practiced accounting for five years out of school. So I had a lot of real estate clients at the firm. so I got to expect where I sort of, I guess, I cut the bug. I liked that, you know, it was a tangible asset. You could always reach out and touch it. And although at that point in my life, it was all about

Brett McCollum (01:12.538)
Mm-hmm.

Irwin Boris (01:16.046)
numbers on old fashioned manual spreadsheets before pre computer day. I like that as an asset class. It was something I could touch. wasn’t, you know, financial where it disappear. And even now today, it’s like, you know, you talk to some people that work for investment firms, like what kind of investments you make, it’s like binary. I’m like, it’s a binary because when you get something, end up with a bunch of bagels, meaning zeros.

So I guess when I left accounting, I got a chance to work for a large owner operators on the Forbes list. They taught me the property management side of the business. And yeah, it was nice except I got to learn all the games that tenants can play and how they can live rent free for a long period of time. How they can manipulate the cost system, the courts if they know the games and you know, dealing with federal and state agencies and the nuances there to make sure you can collect rent if you have subsidized tenants. And so I progressed, you know,

Brett McCollum (01:50.227)
nice.

Irwin Boris (02:11.221)
over the years either working for owners as an asset management capacity or helping do acquisitions, building syndication platforms. And then I also have about 20 years mixed in there where we’re working for three different lenders, underwriting commercial loans on apartment building, shopping centers, industrial centers, raising equity for people to where I am today.

And so I’ve been in all the asset classes. I’d like to think that I’ve heard all the stories that people could tell you. And I guess over time it helped that and being an investor in between my own account and making some money and losing some money. I got to figure out what asset classes I like and why. And that’s why I like, you know, TripleNet.

Brett McCollum (03:00.198)
That’s awesome. Man, I wanna, let’s kind of rewind back a little bit if we can, because I think it’s, I love the evolution of how things come to be, right? And if you allow me, think let’s, I’d love to try to go on a little journey here and explore that a little bit. All right, so accounting. You’re back in college, you rewind back to, like you said, when the dinosaurs, I’m kidding. You rewind back.

Irwin Boris (03:17.271)
My pleasure.

Brett McCollum (03:28.224)
What was it that you always like, numbers driven, like financially minded like that, or is that something that was late in life? Like how did you decide accounting? What, where did that come from?

Irwin Boris (03:40.706)
Well, I was always good with numbers and I wasn’t really sure what to major in. had friends that, you know, either in business or in marketing or business management. And I remember having a discussion with my father one day and he said, he’s like, that’s all BS, BS degrees because they’re so, what was the word like, siloed, you know, either you’re going to make it or you’re not going to make it. says, at least if you understand accounting and you can read spreadsheets.

You could do anything. And I figured out that that was a good advice later in life when my first job working for a savings bank where even though I was on the commercial side, had one borrower of mine that was buying a large home at auction, a very wealthy woman, and we were going to do a loan for her. And they call me from the single family underwriting area and they said, we can’t lend her any money. She doesn’t have any income. I said, what do you mean she doesn’t have any income?

I said, do you know how to read the tax return? She goes, yeah, there’s no taxable income. I said, fellas, that doesn’t mean she has no income. I said, she’s in commercial real estate. All her income is sheltered by depreciation. Well, what’s that? I said, it’s a non-cash charge. What does that mean? I said, the government allows you to depreciate and amortize certain items to offset your taxable income. Now, like, is that legal? I’m like, of course it’s legal. You have the tax returns.

So I said, you see these two numbers, the deductions, add those two numbers back. Oh, she makes a lot of money a year. I’m like, right, she has no taxable income. So it came into handy when I could actually walk them through the process and teach them how to read somebody’s personal tax return and explain to them why I thought they were a good credit risk. And that’s why I guess I have a degree in accounting. And also, as far as real estate,

Brett McCollum (05:20.774)
That’s cool.

Irwin Boris (05:33.506)
You always have to find elective courses to take as an undergraduate. And they happen to offer the, this was in New York, I went to school. Back then, it was 45 hour salesperson’s course and the 45 hour brokerage business law class. So I got to least take both of those and be qualified to sit for the New York state sales persons or brokerage exams to be licensed, which I have a license for being a broker.

Brett McCollum (05:37.625)
Hmm

Brett McCollum (05:50.299)
Wow.

Brett McCollum (05:57.947)
Mm-hmm.

Irwin Boris (06:02.574)
taught you a lot about investments, about some of the legal terms, the amnesia and how things are calculated. And I guess once I got a chance to put those two pieces together, it really synced.

Brett McCollum (06:14.18)
Yeah, that’s incredible. Yeah, and it’s funny how that comes to be, right? I know. So we don’t talk a lot about ever like our, you know, on my side of things, but I came out of the insurance world. I was an adjuster and settling these injury claims. But if you don’t understand the insurance side of it, they’re really just trying to keep their costs down and their exposure low. Right. And so how do you, know, urban breaks his arm in a car accident, those are in shorts fall and you have an attorney on one side and I’m over here on this side.

trying to negotiate and settle this thing and learning how to negotiate at a high level to get something at a discount. That’s really what the insurance thing is doing. Do the parallel and what that taught me on how to negotiate buying real estate at a discount, right? Ideally though, if you have any kind of ethics around yourself, when you’re settling with that person that broke their arm, that it’s an advantageous, hey, this was fair and reasonable, but it still made sense for the other side too, right?

Irwin Boris (06:51.16)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (07:13.316)
So learning how to do that, man, it’s funny though, like, because I never thought as I mean, it took me a while as in the real estate business got into real estate, it never clicked on me in my head of that taught me what I know now. You know, and you having that same, you know, thing with the accounting and like, man, that’s a really very advantageous like you said, you use the word advantageous, very advantageous for you, you know, to have gone through that. So you did that? What did you tell me five years? Is that how long you practice?

Irwin Boris (07:43.31)
Yeah, it was about four and a half, five years I practiced accounting as a regular accountant. But all my other jobs, know, asset management, I was a controller for one real estate firm. everything is numbers related. Even now, I’m in the weeds on all the numbers because I like to look at the financial statements firsthand when we get them in from perspective seller. Someone wants to sell me something because sometimes you can tell you have a feeling about an asset by looking at the form in which they’re presented.

Brett McCollum (08:04.496)
Mm-hmm.

Irwin Boris (08:13.134)
you know, mom and pop versus a very sophisticated owner where you might, you know, have trouble tracing some of the back stories, of the, you know, for the diligence where those numbers come from. So I’m sensitive to how the numbers are presented and how I think I can diligence them. Because, you know, once you own it, it’s yours. And, you know, the first rule and the second rule and the third rule is no lose money.

Brett McCollum (08:13.285)
Hmm.

Brett McCollum (08:39.024)
Yeah, but hey, have you ever lost we’ve all lost money, right? Yeah

Irwin Boris (08:44.01)
I have. I invested in some apartment buildings and unfortunately, everything looks great on paper. They’re in the great area, but you don’t know until you own them how difficult it is to collect rent sometime. The sheriff who normally was charged with doing the evictions was running for election that year. So they were too busy campaigning. They wouldn’t

hire any, you know, even part-time deputies to serve warrants of eviction. you people were there for nine months, a year without paying rent in some of them. Some cases we had some, I never thought about pressure testing underground supply lines for water. That’s a broken lines cost, you know, a lot of money has had to dig up concrete slab to replace water lines. You things that you really never think about that you take for granted.

Brett McCollum (09:35.62)
Yeah, truly.

Irwin Boris (09:38.274)
Yeah, then there are some deals I made a lot of money on, but still the ones that you remember most are the ones that you lost the money on. And I also don’t like the fact that like I’m in one deal now, one legacy apartment deal, and it’s a great deal, but you know, when insurance for apartment buildings tripled in the last couple of years, that comes out of your pocket. So I don’t want to be exposed to operating expenses either.

Brett McCollum (10:03.344)
Yeah, I think it’s back pre show we were kind of talking about this a minute ago is the the lessons are learned sometimes by doing and we were like the analogy the simple one right like don’t put your hand on the so why because it’s high but you know when finally when you did touch it you’re like that was I won’t do that again you know

Irwin Boris (10:16.526)
Mm-hmm.

Irwin Boris (10:21.23)
Well, we all do that because even if our parents tell us something, we don’t listen to our parents, we’ve to figure it out for ourselves and make the same mistakes.

Brett McCollum (10:27.32)
unfortunate about human nature, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s. But I mean, I think it does still show a lot of resilience that, you’re able to, you know, you do that you do make the mistake, but you’re able to, okay, I learned that one. Let’s keep moving on, you know, and not make not repeat our mistakes. Ideally, right? I’ll be honest, though, sometimes I’m a little bit thick. And I don’t learn the lesson the first time and I have to repeat the lesson and

Irwin Boris (10:29.399)
It is.

Brett McCollum (10:55.398)
You know, have to to learn it twice sometimes, you know, but but I think that’s the nature of the entrepreneur mind of like, know, we’re going to keep going anyway.

Irwin Boris (11:06.092)
No, we do. Sometimes you think, that was a one-time event, it’s not going to happen again, and then lightning strikes a second time. Yeah, I understand.

Brett McCollum (11:12.772)
Yup, been there man. But yeah, so fast forward us a bit. now you’re doing all, you you come through, you’re in the accounting space, you’re working with, you know, property management side of things. At what point do you start getting into things like more or less on your own or did, or it has always been with other people? What’s that look like for you?

Irwin Boris (11:31.97)
No, it’s always been joining other people. I guess the way I analyze things and my transparency, I was invited to work with people who needed someone in their office to help with acquisitions, needed someone that could crank through the numbers. And having a residential or multifamily background, they taught me the commercial side. They were doing office buildings and industrial. Actually, they were one of my borrowers.

just about 28 years ago when I worked for GMAC Commercial Mortgage, which fast forward, the legacy part is now known as Bracadia. So they taught me the other side of the business and we’ve had a great relationship and over time I got to invest with them on the principal side. again, everybody likes apartments, but they told me that here’s why we don’t like apartments because you don’t have to worry about the operating expenses.

I’d like to think that over the years I’ve heard all the stories as a lender or as an owner, what people say they’re to tell a lender to convince them of some position they want to take. And so I’d like to think that I’m not the smartest guy in the room, but I’d to think I know enough to be dangerous and I know enough to protect myself and protect those I work with so we don’t lose money.

Brett McCollum (12:59.11)
Perfect, yeah, that’s great. I mean, it’s a wealth and I’m trying to, I really wanna highlight some, know, the fact that like the deep understanding of numbers and value that underwriting brings to the table. So, I mean, obviously for the operators out there and you guys that are that are, you’re driven by the deal, driven by the deal. This is great effort and like having somebody that can analyze and underwrite it at a high level, I mean,

I think you’d agree. It’s probably the most important thing.

Irwin Boris (13:32.428)
No, I was taught long ago about these acquisitions. Everyone builds these massive spreadsheets and they all complicate things. That if you really could do it on a cocktail napkin or a three by five card, at least to get a basic feel if you like the deal, don’t buy it. And these guys that I went to work for, were my borrowers. They had sold, they had one of their big deals in contract and they needed to do a tax free exchange and they said,

Brett McCollum (13:47.878)
Mmm.

Irwin Boris (14:00.59)
What do do with the money? I said, well, your grandfather made the money in apartments. Let’s go find some apartments. So one of the principals takes me to a meeting and he says, I never bought an apartment building before. I’m not really sure how we’re to do this. I said, it’s real simple, old fashioned formula. I said, we’re going to take the rent roll times 12 is your annual income. Let’s take a 5 % vacancy in collection. We’ll assume expenses are 45%. Here’s our net operating income. We’re going to cap it at 7%. Here’s the purchase price.

And he looked at me, I’m literally like a cocktail napkin-sized piece of paper. And he goes, you don’t need to get computer to build a spreadsheet and get a, I’m like, no. I said, look, you’re going to buy on seven, you’re going to finance at three and a half. Could you live the three and a half percent margin at 75 % leverage? He goes, yeah, we’re going to get 10 or 11 % on our money. I said, that’s before we renovate the apartments and move the rents. He goes, that’s a great deal. So, and we bought them. We bought three buildings in Raleigh when people.

Brett McCollum (14:51.6)
Yeah. Yeah.

Irwin Boris (14:56.61)
Thought of Raleigh, North Carolina as a flyover city.

Brett McCollum (14:59.446)
Mmm. No, that’s great. Yeah, there’s a lot of lot of traffic moving in Raleigh Durham right now that

Irwin Boris (15:04.098)
Yeah, yeah. This is like 10, 11 years ago when it was a tertiary market. And we bought a lot of apartments together just on that old fashioned formula that if you were happy with the leverage cash flow the first day, then it would only get better.

Brett McCollum (15:20.666)
Yeah, that’s incredible. So let’s kind of catch up to on the triple net side of things. Obviously, you kind of let off that like I until you discovered what you love, right? And that’s true. Talk about that. Why? What’s the love? Why the love all the things, you know, just kind of high level that and we’ll talk, you know, I’m promised you I’m gonna have some questions. So

Irwin Boris (15:42.488)
No, I’m sure. I’m sure. No, I guess over the years of either underwriting apartments and personally investing in apartments. So one thing I did notice is operating expenses were never really predictable. Yeah, you can like to figure out what your payroll cost is, know, renovate repairs and maintenance within a certain reason. But sometimes major things happened in the buildings where people had a fire or electrical line went out or insurance. If it’s a year with a lot of storms.

Insurance triples. All right, it goes down after three or four years, but if someone that’s investing my own money and I like the cash flow, to have none all of a sudden in some years, or be negative because of some of these unforeseen things, it was very awakening. And as everybody jumped on this renovation bandwagon for these value ads,

you the price of renovations went up from 10,000 to apartment to 20,000 per apartment. You couldn’t get contractors. They would take on too many jobs. They would delay you. And so you thought you’d renovate, you know, so many apartments a year, you were doing a third of that because they never finished. So I guess it’s sort of the perfect storm that that turned me off to to multifamily more, you know, mostly for the operating expense fluctuations that I like predictability being an accountant.

Brett McCollum (16:43.536)
Right.

Irwin Boris (17:07.31)
And so one of the firms I got to work with did a lot of industrial and shallow bay flex. Some of the assets they’ve owned for 40 years and they just keep refinancing them. They said, look, it throws off great cash flow. We don’t care if it’s You know, and back then, you know, 10, 15 years ago, everybody thought of industrial as ugly, dirty stuff. And some of it was, but shallow bay flex is in everybody’s backyard and you just drive by it and you take it for granted.

Brett McCollum (17:13.958)
Mm-hmm.

Irwin Boris (17:36.531)
These are built things that are occupied.

Brett McCollum (17:37.126)
Yeah, what is shallow bay flex? I’m curious.

Irwin Boris (17:40.674)
They’re typically your local businesses, whether it’s an appliance repair shop, the plumber, the electrician, the carpenter. They have a small office presence. They have a place for all their equipment and tools. Maybe they drive some of their vans or trucks in the back. So their truck doors in the back. And they run their businesses out of these things. You know, in some cases I’ve seen people, know, a horticulturist, they start plants from seedlings. They grow coral. They breed fish.

Brett McCollum (17:55.782)
Okay.

Irwin Boris (18:09.676)
You know, all these businesses have to be in a building somewhere. And so I’m sure if we all drive around our neighborhoods, we’re going to find some of these shallow bay buildings. You just drive by them and you don’t even think about them.

Brett McCollum (18:12.432)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (18:22.512)
Yeah, incredible. Yeah, was just, when you said that, I was like, what does he mean? Like, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, they’re everywhere.

Irwin Boris (18:28.942)
They are everywhere. so, you know, for, know, so you start off with a small one, you might have three tenants and 20,000 feet or 30,000 feet, but you know, we like stuff that’s bigger because, know, if you had, you know, 150,000 square feet with 20 or 25 tenants, that’s sort of what you call credit by diversity. And it’s sort of like the multifamily of the industrial world. So you have a lot of units.

Brett McCollum (18:53.52)
Mm-hmm.

Irwin Boris (18:55.214)
So you don’t have to worry if one or two move out, the other two move in, just like turnover in an apartment building.

Brett McCollum (19:00.454)
That’s right. That makes total sense. Yeah. So.

Irwin Boris (19:03.278)
But the best thing about them is the tenants pay the operating expenses. they, you whatever the real estate tax bill or the landlord’s insurance bill that gets allocated based on how many square feet you occupy. So the tenants pay that. So as real estate taxes go up, their, their what you call CAM or common area maintenance reimbursement goes up. So you know what your rent is and what your income if your leases grew up two and a half or three percent of the year, you’re pretty much assured that you’re

Brett McCollum (19:08.569)
I

Brett McCollum (19:17.978)
Wow.

Irwin Boris (19:31.596)
Net operating income is going up the same amount.

Brett McCollum (19:33.99)
Yeah, it’s a question I was thinking about and I told you I’d have questions for you. On the industrial side like that, as compared to like residential multifamily, Is there any marketable differences that come to mind for like, I don’t know, like example, like a tax benefit, is there anything different as it pertains to industrial versus like residential?

Irwin Boris (19:58.35)
Sure, well I guess what we call the traditional industrial with the higher ceiling heights and bigger tenants, you probably don’t have as much depreciation as you do in an apartment building because there’s less components. You don’t have 800 toilets and 500 kitchens and things like that. But in the small bay or shallow bay, you get a lot more depreciation because of the office component. There’s typically a lot more finish inside, or least half of it.

Brett McCollum (20:14.566)
Yeah.

Irwin Boris (20:26.862)
But still, it’s… But then some of it is also offset against the predictability of the cash flow. You know, it’s great to have cash write-off, but at the end of the day, that’s temporary. When you sell, you have recapture. So how much depreciation do you really want? Most people don’t think of that.

Brett McCollum (20:32.816)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (20:42.17)
Right, makes total sense. No, no, that’s true. Everybody wants to scream depreciation, but nobody ever screams recapture. You’re absolutely right. Yeah, because well, depreciation sells and recapture does not sell. yeah, yeah. Man, that’s incredible. all right. So today, catch me up to speed. What is business like today? What are you guys doing?

Irwin Boris (20:51.288)
Correct.

Irwin Boris (20:56.142)
Correct. But it’s a fact.

Irwin Boris (21:06.542)
We’re buying as much as possible. The fact that interest rates have stayed higher for longer is finally getting a lot of sellers to come to the realization they should have sold three years ago or four years ago. And, you know, a lot of them still make money. They’ll just make less. so we’re trying to buy as many deals as we can in the next 24 to 30 months where we really see interest rates getting more normalized.

Brett McCollum (21:19.565)
and

Brett McCollum (21:34.896)
Mm-hmm.

Irwin Boris (21:36.052)
because I can still buy them on high enough cap rates where I can pay 9 or 10 percent to our partners on a current basis and the rent is going to compound. You if I said to you, this is why it’s the perfect investment. If you know what your leverage cash flow is day one, because they’re all net leases where the tenants are paying all the operating expense increases and your leases are increasing three percent a year.

So if you take your body weight and you compounded 3 % the year for seven or 10 years, you’d say, I’m not doing that. I got fat. I don’t want to know how fat I got. And that’s how you know that the income is growing. So the future value is going to be there. It’s a boring, simple formula and eight times out of 10, although as the syndicator, the sponsor, I don’t have to pull the tenants. I mean, the partners, but most of the time they’d rather refinance and hold the asset.

Brett McCollum (22:15.782)
Mmm.

Irwin Boris (22:31.746)
because they’d have to find something else to do with the money.

Brett McCollum (22:35.214)
Right. And that’s kind of nice though to have like the stay into the deal, you know, in the long term. That’s really great. I imagine it keeps the relationship, the longer the relationship, not always, but probably the longer the relationship, the better too.

Irwin Boris (22:49.836)
No, it is. We have a lot of investors that have come, that keep coming back from multiple deals and actually some of them got asked the last month, how could we haven’t seen a new opportunity from you yet? It’s like, you know, we’re looking for it. I’m like, well, because you know, we don’t force them. They got to come naturally. They got to make sense. And, know, and so for me as a sponsor, you know, we’ll hold as long as you want to hold. So we’re not there for the promote. We’re there for the cashflow. So our interests are really aligned because

Brett McCollum (23:14.266)
Yeah.

Irwin Boris (23:17.41)
You know, having family money on the sponsor side is what we deploy as well. When I invest my own money, I’m right there for the cashflow. I like seeing those those quarterly distributions at the bank accounts.

Brett McCollum (23:28.346)
Of course. Yeah. So you mentioned that a couple of times as well. So it’s twenty twenty five, you know, and right now the you know, there’s just still just the feeling anyway that I gather in the market. It’s just a little more still uncertain, hopeful, but uncertain. know, rates have been higher for longer. Right. We haven’t had the cuts that we were hoping for. You mentioned, you know, insurance has gone up like through the roof. You know, we went through a bad

Here in Florida, I live with four hurricanes. And it’s harder, deal flow is changing. But how are you guys navigating? mean, because what I hear out of your voice, the reason I’m asking is, it’s calm.

Irwin Boris (24:00.11)
Yeah.

Irwin Boris (24:14.062)
Yeah, I’ll tell you why I’m so calm. It’s because we’re very conservative in our leverage. We don’t borrow more than 65%. So we’re not looking for the maximum loan dollars. We don’t take crazy floating rate mortgages. It’s always fixed rate debt. And if we’re assuming that we’re going to, you everybody underwrites for a hold period. So if I assume we’re holding for five years, I’m taking at least seven year debt. And the reason for that is because

Brett McCollum (24:22.8)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (24:40.23)
Wow, okay.

Irwin Boris (24:43.158)
you always want to have enough. I was taught that I need more runway because what if in year five the capital markets are upside down and for you to refinance like now people with maturing mortgages, they would have to bring money to the table just to refinance the existing mortgage or pay it down. And so we like to make sure that we don’t get in that position. know, and if rates are moving down, that’s, you know, moving down.

where I can refinance and potentially get a new mortgage and or pull out cash, then I have no prepayment penalty. It’s only if the rates move up. So that’s why I want the loan. I want that leeway to make the decision, because if you have to focus on a capital markets event because of a loan maturity, then you really can’t devote your full attention to the operations of the property. And that’s when people take their eyes off the ball. Tendency, occupancy drops, things happen.

I always want to make sure that we’re giving the property our full attention.

Brett McCollum (25:44.006)
Yeah. And that’s, and that’s why I asked that because I knew like, I know so many operators out there that are in that spot right now, right? Where they bought it in 2020. And they were there. It’s five years and they’re due now. And they bought them when rates were low. And now rates aren’t that they may have underwritten it to where all right, it’s work. Yeah, well, we’re just like in a rate, you know, increase, but not to the level what it is today. You know, and so they’ve missed they missed

Irwin Boris (25:52.152)
Right.

Brett McCollum (26:13.222)
It wasn’t intentional, but the underwriting just didn’t scratch for what actually happened. And I know there’s some people out there in panic, you know, but I all I see from you, like, and I know some of you guys are only listening, but it’s just calm, cool, collected.

Irwin Boris (26:15.726)
Correct.

Irwin Boris (26:25.678)
It’s a boring investment. At this point in my life, we’re very conservative. My partners and I are conservative. The people who invest with us are just looking for stability. They don’t want excitement. And I’ve even had people call me and say, hey, you know what? I put my money into a, what do they call it? Independent custodian. We don’t like the stock market, what’s going on. I’m we could do that for you.

Brett McCollum (26:46.342)
Mmm.

Irwin Boris (26:52.014)
because that’s where all my money is out of my old 401ks. I’m so happy that I’m not watching the Dow and the S &P and things go like this. I’m like, my God.

Brett McCollum (27:02.564)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s so and to what to the reason I bring that is like you keep saying it’s a boring investment, but all I see is peace. And, that is like that is a that is far from I would rather have peace than be in chaos and fear, right? Like, because that’s where so many people are at right now. So good on you.

Irwin Boris (27:11.554)
Yeah, peace.

Irwin Boris (27:23.534)
You shouldn’t have to have, if you’re going to, first of all, for anybody, any of the listeners that may have investors, they’re passive investors, if it’s money that you can’t afford to lose, don’t invest. That’s the first thing. And if you want to call it risk capital, even if you’re starting out or even if you’re an experienced investor that’s on 8, 10, 12 deals, I just think at this, especially at this point in the cycle, bet on cashflow because it’s really the only thing you know.

We’re seeing too many of these upside down deals where people are reaching, they’re finding mezzanine, preferred equity, and all that does is really dilute the investor equity. And I just think it’s safer. I’d like to know I’m getting 8%, 9%, 10%, 11 % that’s going to grow over time and be a little more conservative and know I’m getting the money, then risk it and not getting anything and maybe I get my principal back after three or four years.

Brett McCollum (28:04.762)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (28:20.154)
Yeah, that’s perfect. Man, I know we could keep talking and going on, but if people are gonna want to, at some point, they hear you, they wanna reach out and connect with you in some way, what’s the best opportunity for that?

Irwin Boris (28:33.39)
Well, I’m highly searchable on Google. So if you put Erwin Boris into the search bar, you’ll find me. If you hit to my LinkedIn profile, there’s a calendar notice. You can book a call. There’s even an email address of my cell phone number in there. So I am highly reachable. You’ll probably find other, you know, panels and I’ve, you know, I sit on a lot of panels and talk about family office and wealth creation. I’m in tax avoidance. So there’s a lot of information for some of the

Brett McCollum (28:49.062)
There you go.

Irwin Boris (29:02.03)
professional organizations that I speak with. And, you I’m happy to talk to people. You know, I spend some time trying to help people with some of their bad investments now and they’re like, well, do I answer a capital call? Do I not answer a capital call? And, know, sometimes I can honestly say, you got to protect what you got there. And other times I’m like, I don’t believe the sponsor. I don’t think you ever get any of the money back. So I throw more there. It’s a hard thing to tell people, but.

I’m very sympathetic. feel their pain. I’ve been in some of those situations as an investor where I’ve had to make capital calls until the point where I just decided to walk away from the investment in two cases. And so I’d like to understand their needs and try to help them.

Brett McCollum (29:44.41)
Yeah. man, guys, seriously check that out. And I just did it by the way. Yeah, he’s very searchable. Google his name, you’ll find everything you need to find and reach out and connect. A wealth of knowledge, Erwin. I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing with us today.

Irwin Boris (30:01.004)
No, thank you for having me, Brett. Hopefully, I’ve shed a little light on another asset class for investors that have never considered it. And I’m happy to talk to anyone that wants some help.

Brett McCollum (30:12.454)
Perfect. All right, guys, well, thanks for hanging out with us today. And we’ll be sure to catch you guys on the next episode. Take care, everybody.