Navigating Evictions: Essential Tips Every Tenant Should Know

Brett McCollum (00:00.951)
All right, guys, welcome back to the show. I’m your host, Brett McCollum, and I’m here today with Anne-Michelle Frances. And today we’re going to talk about evictions. That’s right. Before we do, at Investor Fuel, guys, we help real estate investors, service providers, and real estate entrepreneurs to 2 5x their businesses to allow them to build the lives they’ve always wanted and the lives they’ve always dreamed of. Without further ado, Anne-Michelle, how are you?

Anne-Michelle Frances (00:25.334)
I’m good. How are you?

Brett McCollum (00:26.909)
Doing good, doing good. Well, glad we got to catch up pre-show a little bit, get to know you a little bit. And I’ll be honest with you guys, I I say this a lot, and Michelle, do, but like, you guys are in for a treat on this one. You’re fascinating. I have so many questions that even pre-show I wanted to ask you that we didn’t even get into. And I kind of mentally was like, I wanna save a lot of those questions for while we’re talking, you know? But guys, you’re in for a treat. But before we get too far into anything,

Amish will give us some background, who are you, some history, know, catch us up to speed.

Anne-Michelle Frances (00:59.488)
Yeah, my name is Anne Michelle Frances. I’m the owner of Blueprint Evictions. I’m a legal document assistant, senior paralegal and the founder. I’ve been working in evictions in California for the last 20 years, born and raised in the Bay Area. And I’ve been servicing the local Bay Area counties, raising four kids, homeschooling, following an entrepreneurial path as I also raise my kids to be entrepreneurs as well. So there’s a lot to me. And I look forward to hearing all of your questions that you have for me.

Brett McCollum (01:27.923)
my gosh, yeah, I’m sure you don’t want all of them, but let’s kind of rewind back, you know, let’s kind of talk, we’re gonna go on a little bit of a back and forth journey here, I think, okay, if that’s okay. Evictions, likes how you started off the show, and I do want to talk about some of, like especially with the homeschooling and everything else too, because we talked about that as well. But you told me pre-show a little bit, where did you learn that?

because I think it’s gonna segue us into the next part of thing. But where did that come from? It’s like, did you just wake up one day like, I want to be in evictions. Like, where did that come from?

Anne-Michelle Frances (02:06.252)
I love this question. So I graduated from Santa Clara University and I wanted to work in the corporate world. So I had an office with a window and all the things you’re supposed to have after you graduate. And then at one point, my dad, we were in a backyard barbecue and my dad said, Hey, and he’s a real estate attorney and had been practicing for 20 years at that time. Said, Hey, I’m going to buy an eviction business. Do you want to run it? And I thought to myself, who on earth wants to do evictions and run an eviction business?

So initially I didn’t say no, but I said, well, are going to match my salary and give me all the things that I want? And he said, yep, I’ll match everything. And you can bring kids to and from work and have them there. And so about five years into my corporate life, I switched gears and went to work for my dad. And I didn’t know it at the time. I actually learned it after my dad retired back in 2023. But as I’ve spoken to different attorneys, they’ve told me that most attorneys don’t even get the training.

that I received from my dad. So my dad being an attorney for 20 years and then I worked for him for 18 years, I could go to him and ask him any question anytime, sit in his office and he took me under his wing and so I know a lot about evictions and I definitely specialize in it at this point.

Brett McCollum (03:06.481)
Wow.

Brett McCollum (03:21.117)
Yeah, yeah, because that’s what I was thinking. was like, man, it’s just not the common landing spot. Like, you know what? I want to do evictions. there’s all, especially when there’s unique niches like that, there’s always a story, right? That’s like, actually it can’t, but man, go dad, right? Like, good on him for, and then like, yes, and I’ll match your salary. And I’m like, go, like, that’s super cool.

Anne-Michelle Frances (03:44.694)
It definitely was at the same time. My ex husband and I, while we were still married, we were owning surf and skateboard shops. So we owned three different surf and skate shops over a 15 year time period. So while I was also working for my dad, we were also owning retail stores and it was just our first store was just down the street from the eviction office. And so it was like revolving doors for kids in and out all day long things happening. so while

Brett McCollum (03:56.102)
Wow.

Brett McCollum (04:07.985)
Anyway.

Anne-Michelle Frances (04:11.764)
It was an eviction business. It was really a family business and a family coming together, spending lunches, dinners, a lot of time together. And so it sounds bad on the outside that it’s evictions and legal, but on the inside, it was really the core of our family that was building and growing and becoming closer.

Brett McCollum (04:27.099)
I love that, that’s incredible. And that kind of segues us a little bit into like, so now with homeschooling and you may mention that you’re raising your children as entrepreneurs, but isn’t that kind of how you were raised almost in some way too, right? Of like, know, attorneys like it or not, they’re entrepreneurs, they gotta, you know, it’s their own business, you’ve seen it, and then dad brings you into that, and then you’re running your own retail shops and things like that. And now it’s just continuing on that legacy with your kids.

Tell me about this, it’s so counter culture, like we talk free show, we also homeschool our kids, four kids as well, same story, I love the entrepreneurial mind that we’re trying to instill in them as well, but it’s so counter culture almost to one, homeschool, but two, to raise them to be entrepreneurs, not to go to college, not saying they’re not gonna go to college, but not as go to college, get a degree, go find a job. What’s the conviction there for you with that?

Anne-Michelle Frances (05:27.736)
You know, I did all the things the right way in quotations. I went to a good high school, went to a good college, got a good job, got married, had kids, bought a house, did all the things in the right order. And it didn’t bring me joy. It didn’t bring me happiness. And it took a major shift during 2020 and moving to Mexico and staying there for two years with all of the kids that really reset everything in my mind. Prior to that, though, I was on the journey of

being location independent and homeschooling the kids so that we could travel anywhere. And that was where the homeschooling began. But then as I continued to have kids and as they were getting older, I did realize something because we were a screen free family and a no video game family. And right around age 12 for the three older kids so far, the younger one is only nine, right around age 12, they all picked a passion and they locked in.

And so homeschooling became about a dangling carrot. We had this thing that they wanted and we could basically bribe them to do anything because they had their dangling carrot. And as long as they got their dangling carrot, they’d do anything to get their schoolwork done. So we sort of reverse engineered homeschooling versus started with homeschooling. It was what’s your passion once you have that, okay, I’ll homeschool you.

Brett McCollum (06:31.623)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (06:44.263)
Wow, that’s super cool. And yeah, and just gives kids like, a lot of kids don’t know what they want really, or they want all the things, right? You know, like I want this and this and also this and this and I want it now. And we have to teach them that focus and what that looks like and incentivizing them to that focus, which is really cool that you did that. I don’t know how much shares little or as much as you want, but like,

Talk about some of the successes that you’re seeing with your kids in that entrepreneurial endeavor that you guys are working on.

Anne-Michelle Frances (07:18.488)
I mean, number one is resiliency. They’re willing to make mistakes. They’re willing to take risks. They’re willing to pivot. And they’re willing to try plan A, B, C, D, E. I mean, it’s in double letters at this point, because they don’t take no for an answer. Now, you get to a point where you say, maybe I’ve outgrown this path that I thought that I wanted to go on. But they never see it as a failure. They’re

Brett McCollum (07:35.485)
Yeah.

Anne-Michelle Frances (07:42.496)
You know, one of them is a big follower of Gary Vee, another one’s a big follower of Mr. B. So they’re also following people that inspire them to work really hard. And also, they call it like the ping pong effect in our house. You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Well, me and my four kids, are five of us, and we’re constantly ping ponging ideas and strategies and things off of each other. And I think that’s also what’s leading to their really intensive growth as they continue to get older.

Brett McCollum (08:02.194)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (08:10.705)
Yeah, that’s incredible. Yeah, my six-year-old, she wants to be an ice cream maker.

Anne-Michelle Frances (08:16.91)
Love it. My nine-year-old wants to be a Target checkout girl. So she hasn’t found her passion yet.

Brett McCollum (08:20.933)
Yeah, that’s it. They change or they… But hey, you know what? Like part of that conversation at this age is even like, well, how does that work? And you make them think about it. Like, well, what does that look like? Then we start talking about supply, demand, cost, gross, net, all the things like, and so she’ll go into her home, under our playroom. She has a little ice cream making set thing, know, a fake one. She’ll bring me out.

Anne-Michelle Frances (08:32.11)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (08:49.917)
until I take my order, bring it out to me, did you make this in house? Yes, I made this in house. How much did it cost you to make it? And we’re teaching it through play at this age, but we’re teaching it. And now my oldest loves coffee, the coffee business. And so he’s asked him anything about it, like where do get the best beans? How do you roast them? Why do you roast them? How much do cook? Like all these things. And then he has a passion for serving.

which is really incredible. I want to say I have that same passion, right? But I have to force it at the end. It’s a natural thing, so he gets to exercise that. So I love seeing you talk about that, because it’s a huge passion in our home. ultimately, I think your kids are, well, your nine-year-old is right around there, ours are, oldest is 11, and then down to two.

So we’ve got the littles, but it’s really cool seeing you’re doing it and starting to see some results from that. for me, it’s validation that we’re on the right track. They’re going to be OK.

Anne-Michelle Frances (09:55.95)
Well, I still often have that fear or had that fear many years ago when you’re doing things so differently and no one else is doing that. And then you’re taking this chance. I hope I don’t completely mess them up because everyone else has video games and everyone else has a cell phone. So if I don’t give my kids cell phones till 15 and 1 1.5, am I completely messing them up? Are they ever going to catch up? And when I talked to them about

entrepreneurship and how much do things cost, just like you’re talking about. When I’m going a different route than the common core, and my kids won’t necessarily be at grade level if they go back to school with other kids, am I totally messing them up or am I doing something really good for them? You have no idea. It’s just a toss. Your fingers are crossed.

Brett McCollum (10:38.749)
The unfortunate, yeah, the unfortunate thing for us is we have all these playbooks for how business works, this works, how that works, like, find me a parenting, like there’s tons of parenting books, but there’s no playbook of like, this is the recipe that works. This is the one that’s, you know, we’re gonna make, I was, my parents were, made mistakes, I’ve made, like, you, I’m sure you’ve made, we’re gonna make them, you know, but hopefully what rings through more than anything is,

We love our kids. We try to set them for the best path that we possibly can and we support that in every way possible. And I think that’s the main objective, So, yeah, I am gonna ask you this too though, because you touched on it only briefly. We don’t have to talk real long about it, but Mexico, question mark?

Anne-Michelle Frances (11:27.374)
Yeah, yeah, 2020, we decided to sell the house, sell everything in it and move and actually van life. So we bought a van, we were converting a van and then we went on vacation to Mexico and we got to Mexico and I didn’t want to leave. So we were in Baja, Baja, so Cabo San Lucas. So I rented a car and the kids and I started driving and we…

Brett McCollum (11:29.287)
Tell me more.

Brett McCollum (11:44.987)
Wow, where did you guys go? What part? area? Okay. Yep.

Anne-Michelle Frances (11:55.352)
kind of road trip through Baja. At this point, it was just me and the four kids. And we kept on road tripping. We found one little town that we kept on going back to. You’ll have to email me separately if you want to hear about my small town. And we ended up loving it there and then planting there and living there for two years, putting the kids in school. And my ex-husband ended up converting the van, driving it down. And the kids would go back and forth between his van on the beach and my.

the condo I was living in. So we just created this entire community. And the crazy thing is we weren’t the only ones. There were a lot of people that went down to Baja and just didn’t leave and stayed there during COVID and years after. And then a lot of us ended up coming back in 2022. So now we go back and we still have friends there and our local friends are there. And a lot of people have moved back and my son, one of his Baja friends is now local. And so he has friends in California that are from Baja experience.

Brett McCollum (12:48.928)
cool.

Anne-Michelle Frances (12:50.474)
It was an amazing little capsule of time that changed me from the inside out.

Brett McCollum (12:55.965)
I bet so. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, dream of something like that even. I know a handful of people that are expats that now live abroad that run great businesses. I’ll be honest, I have. I’ve thought about it. like, that might be fun. In trying to put practically actively doing that, I’m nerding out over here. like, this is so cool.

Anne-Michelle Frances (13:25.004)
Yeah, well, let me back up for a minute, though, if you want to talk about that. Because it was when I was still married, Meg’s husband and I sat down and said, what’s our five to 10 year plan? And we said we both want to be location independent. the process of homeschooling the kids was part of that, slowly homeschooling them. And so I went back to my eviction office. At this point, I’d been working there for maybe 14 years, 15 years. And I made the entire office remote, which

Brett McCollum (13:25.584)
Anne-Michelle Frances (13:51.276)
If you know anything about a law office, you have to touch papers. Lawyers don’t want anything to be remote. So I spent a couple of years making the office remote, and it finally was. And I went to my dad and said, the office is remote. I don’t want to come in anymore. This is pre-COVID. And he said, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Of course you’re coming in the office. I was like crushed. It’s like, here I am plugging along going into the office. It was maybe six months later that COVID hit. And we never went back to the office.

Brett McCollum (13:54.449)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (14:07.165)
Yeah.

Brett McCollum (14:17.511)
Wow.

Anne-Michelle Frances (14:19.518)
I moved to Mexico and I actually three times the income of the eviction business, even while there was an eviction moratorium, working remotely. My dad had no idea how I did it and he basically passed on the reins and said, whatever you’re doing, keep doing it and I’ve never been in an office again.

Brett McCollum (14:36.893)
That’s incredible. Yeah, mean, there was a lot of weird, hard, difficult times during COVID for sure, but there was a lot of good things that produced out of it. Obviously that being one of them, but perfect segue for us. Eviction. You come into it. I mean, it’s a specialty at this point for you. The biggest thing I wanna talk more about, I think that would be really valuable is,

kind of some best practices before they need you. Before we, before we realize state investors need to call Ann-Michelle up, you know, and say, I need your help, you know. And I’ll make a disclaimer for you, you can re-say it if you want. Guys, Ann-Michelle’s out of California. These are, what she’s saying is based in California, but I’m confident there are principles that no matter where we are, we can take with us. So, talk a little high level, give us some best practices before, God, before we need you.

What have you noticed over the years?

Anne-Michelle Frances (15:35.564)
Yes. Yeah, I will throw out there. I’m not an attorney. This is not legal advice. This is not intended to be legal advice. So it’s informational purposes only. The main thing is you have to be in compliance with the laws. So you need to know what the laws are in your particular state. That said, California is one of the strictest states in the entire country. I think New York is the only one that leads it. I believe Oregon and Washington are following very closely behind.

Knowing that it is so strict in California. So if you’re running your your business like the old the Wild West, then you’re not going to get far and you will probably get sued if you are running a well oiled machine, then you’re going to do well. But you do need to know that the laws are changing regularly. And that’s one of the main things is that people aren’t staying up to date with the laws. Some of the most basic ones aren’t being followed at a minimum.

Brett McCollum (16:21.106)
Right.

Anne-Michelle Frances (16:27.906)
You should always screen your tenants. You should always have them fill in out an application. You should always do a credit check. Now I say that lightly in terms of credit check because every state is different. Some states you can run a background check. Some states you can run a criminal check. Some states you can run credit checks. Some states you can’t. And some you could be in violation of discrimination or fair housing laws. So you do need to be very careful. And I always recommend a third party.

actually does that work for you, the tenant screening portion of it, or a property management company that can actually screen your tenants because that’s most important part of the process is getting really good tenants in there and knowing that they’re good tenants from the start.

Brett McCollum (17:11.025)
Good. So maybe don’t just take them at their word that I’m a good guy.

Anne-Michelle Frances (17:15.598)
I mean, we’ve got tenants that have their same M.O.’s and it’s if they’re rushing to get in, if they have some situation that’s going on in their life that’s pressing and so now it becomes your problem, keep in mind their emergency is not your emergency because there’s probably a reason they’re rushing out of the last place.

Brett McCollum (17:29.784)
These are.

their immediate, their emergency is large, probably a red flag. Yeah.

Anne-Michelle Frances (17:37.87)
It is or if they have all cash, that’s another red flag Why do you have so much cash to just spend? you have money in the bank? I also see a frequent mo is writing a personal check. I just have personal checks All right first month last month They put it all in the personal check takes two months two weeks for that check to bounce and then they’re already in they already have the keys and then you have to go through the entire process So that’s a common mo that I see

Brett McCollum (17:45.105)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (18:00.463)
Ooh, yeah.

Interesting. You mentioned kind of, we were talking about some pre-show stuff, you mentioned like a framework almost that’s really kind of cool. I love acronyms by the way, it sticks in my head. Can you talk a little more about that?

Anne-Michelle Frances (18:17.996)
Yeah, after working for 20 years in evictions and the majority of my clients are self-managing landlords, the do-it-yourselfer that doesn’t want to pay the property manager and wants to keep that extra profit. I have devised a code system and I really feel like if this is followed and this is something that you can create as your own process, you can be successful as a do-it-yourselfer. If this is something you can’t do and it’s just not your personality type, then you should hire a property manager and it’s called my code system.

So it’s consistency, communication, documentation, enforcement. And what that means is you start with consistency. You have to do the same thing every time with all of your tenants. You can’t treat one one way and another one another way and then raise this one’s rent because he made you mad last month or keep that one’s rent low because you know his mom. You have to be consistent on all your properties and run it like a business, not like a friendship circle. That’s number one.

Brett McCollum (19:11.421)
Good morning.

Anne-Michelle Frances (19:15.586)
That’s consistency. Then there’s communication. You have to be able to communicate with your tenant. I’ll say the number one time and reason that clients contact me is because their tenants stopped talking to them. There’s a fine line in communication though. You don’t want to harass them. There’s no texting nonstop. There’s no showing up at their door and knocking. You have to do things within the confines of the law, but definitely communicate with your tenants. And if something’s going on in your mind, talk to them about it. Next step is documentation. You want to document.

Anything that’s happening on the property whether it’s through warning notices or non-payment of rent notices You want to have a paper file and that’s really going to help you avoid any possible Discrimination or retaliation claims because if anyone asks you a question You have a paper file that follows what happened versus you trying to remember what may have happened on that property and Ultimately, it’s enforcement. Yeah, it may cost money and you may have lost rent. But if your tenants aren’t

listening, if they’re not communicating, if they’re not being consistent, and even after documentation they’re not following the rules, you need to enforce the rules and show your tenants that you’re serious and that is usually where you end up with an eviction. But it is a last resort as an eviction, but it is a option. So don’t ignore it as an option. Sometimes it is the fastest option and sometimes it’s not.

Brett McCollum (20:31.133)
Yeah, man.

there’s a lot to unpack guys if you’re listening, rewind back a couple of minutes there and re-listen to it again because no matter where we’re at, right, I think that rings through Alaska to Hawaii to California to New York and everywhere in between, those principles are sound and they work. I really especially love the consistency piece. I think in all business, the missing link is between success and not success is consistency.

Anne-Michelle Frances (21:04.248)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (21:04.459)
And it’s interesting that you brought that up even in the eviction process. prior, like before you get to eviction, even the landlord process, like a consistency. I really appreciate you saying that.

Anne-Michelle Frances (21:08.238)
Mm-hmm.

Anne-Michelle Frances (21:15.614)
I also wanted to throw out there that property managers are worth their weight in gold. So if a landlord wants to continue to manage their property on their own, that’s fine. They should be investing the same amount of money they would be investing in a property manager in their ongoing education because property management and property ownership is no longer easy.

even throughout the entire country, it is changing and continues to change. So you need to know what’s going on because it’s no longer valid to say, I didn’t know. Judges don’t really appreciate that. No.

Brett McCollum (21:39.569)
Right.

Brett McCollum (21:46.941)
Ignorance is not bliss. Yeah, ignorance is not bliss. Yeah, especially, I mean, we’re in the information age, right? So at our fingertips, we can access information. But what I think is really especially cool is having people like you on here. This is a specialty piece in things like, you know, for us to be able to connect with you and, you know, have opportunities to discuss like some, like I said earlier, best practices, things like that. Or, God forbid, you find yourself in a situation where you need

help, a lot of us, we don’t really plan for that. So having people in network that we can find, you mentioned property management, really great for that. Let me ask you this, this is a good question. There’s a million property management companies out there, just like there are a million attorneys, doctors, everything else in between.

a million real estate agents, know, investors, there are good ones and there are bad ones, you know. What do you identify as maybe the top two or three things that we should look for if we’re gonna go down that property management route?

Anne-Michelle Frances (22:56.952)
To be honest, as an eviction service provider, I do evictions for property managers, self-managing landlords. I do them for everyone. And so I’m the person who interfaces with the actual record keeping of whoever that person is, let’s say the property manager. So I can see the people who have their documents in order and who don’t. I would call your eviction company and say, who are the best property managers that you work with? Even good property managers have evictions.

Brett McCollum (22:59.677)
Yeah.

Anne-Michelle Frances (23:24.494)
It’s a matter of numbers when you’re talking about, 500, 1000, 3000 doors. It’s a matter of numbers. You’re going to have evictions. So I’d want to know who sends you the best paperwork. I would start with an eviction company because a lot of things can be very subjective. And eviction companies really know who has everything in order, who doesn’t wait three years before they actually take action, who takes action on properties when someone’s not complying.

Brett McCollum (23:25.563)
Yeah, business.

Brett McCollum (23:41.661)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (23:51.549)
Perfect, mean that’s perfect, because I think that’s the best thing for us in the investment space is like, you know, when we’re doing our underwriting, when we’re looking out for deals and we’re looking out for the numbers and how they scratch, too many times if we’re doing the buy and hold strategy where we’re looking to grow our rental portfolios and things like that, too often we overlook the what is a vacancy, vacancy is a big number that people should account for, but the what ifs.

what if there’s eviction, what if this is the case and we’re not really underwriting for that. And it’s not just financial, it largely is financial, but it’s the mental aspect of what to do when that happens and then that way there’s not lost time like you mentioned a few times now. So it’s really good for us to keep getting this information dialed into us more repeatedly so that we are making better decisions before we even get started. So I appreciate you saying that.

Anne-Michelle Frances (24:44.674)
Yeah, I do. I do want to emphasize that in California specifically, because I don’t know that this is every state, but probably the more liberal states like New York and California, you want to probably talk to an eviction company before you purchase a property that has tenants in it, because a lot of, sorry, a lot of people make the move to buy the property because it’s a fantastic deal. But then once they’ve purchased it, they realize, wait, there are tenants in the property that are protected and I can’t just remodel it and raise the rent.

Brett McCollum (24:58.852)
yeah.

Anne-Michelle Frances (25:14.572)
So California protects a lot of tenants. The majority of tenants are very protected. And so you have to be careful in that regard also. So especially in California, I would find out from an eviction specialist, is this a property that you can do what you intend to do with if you were to buy it?

Brett McCollum (25:14.663)
Mm-hmm.

Brett McCollum (25:31.217)
Yeah, if people are, because obviously you have a ton and a wealth of information, especially you guys in California, this is a no-brainer, but how would people, what’s the best way to get a hold of you and connect with you and ultimately if they have questions, what’s the best way for that to happen?

Anne-Michelle Frances (25:36.781)
is no.

Anne-Michelle Frances (25:48.29)
Yeah, so if it’s eviction related in California, you can go to blueprintevictions.com. If you want to know more about me or follow my Instagram or my podcast that I’m doing with my kids or all of the other things as they continue to develop, including landlord coaching and things like that, you can go to my website, which is ann-michelle.com. That’s A-N-N-E-M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E.com. So those are the two ways that you will always be able to find me.

Brett McCollum (26:15.549)
Yeah, and guys, we’ll have that in the show notes for you too. But man, this has been great. I really love being able to talk at a high level about a topic that is often overlooked, but very ever important because all it takes, honestly, and you’ve probably seen this, being in the industry as long as you have, all it takes is one problem like this. I mean, the mom and pop investor, the mom and pop person that has a…

a tenant property, they don’t have 100 properties that if one goes bad, it’s gonna be okay. So all the more important to get this information out there. So guys, if you’re listening and you have properties or you’re looking at properties, especially, golly, if you’re local in California, don’t wait till it happens so you get ahead of it, right? Isn’t that kind of a lot of what you’re saying? Yeah.

Anne-Michelle Frances (27:07.852)
Absolutely, be preventative and if it happens to you, then make sure professionals handling it for you so that you can rest at night, you can sleep, and you can just know that it’s going as smoothly as possible, as quickly as possible, but you need to make sure that you have a good professional on your side who knows what they’re doing.

Brett McCollum (27:16.519)
Peace of mind.

Brett McCollum (27:24.561)
Yeah, and like I said guys follow along go to our website follow socials go to blueprint go to go check it all out guys that you won’t be sorry you did and man it’s been a really great talking with you I’ve enjoyed every part of it I’m confident we could talk at length about any number of things but you know I really want to make sure that we keep this really high level if you’ve got to stay on track but man this has been great so thanks for hanging out with me today

Anne-Michelle Frances (27:50.318)
Yeah, thanks Brett, this has been super fun.

Brett McCollum (27:52.637)
Cool, well guys, there you have it. Thanks for hanging out with us as well, and we’ll catch you guys on the next episode. Take care everybody.