4 Levels of Lead Generation for Real Estate Investors

Mike Hambright (00:01.065)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Today I am here with the biggest guns in the real estate industry, Brent Daniels. We’re gonna be talking about what your marketing budget should be based on what level your business is. And we’re talk lot about kind of lead gen and marketing today. And it’s always awesome to talk to Brent. So, glad to see you here, buddy.

Brent Daniels (00:21.346)
Mike, you are the best. I have been listening to you since 2014. When did you first come out with investor nerd? That was flip nerd. Yeah.

Mike Hambright (00:30.367)
Flip nerd flip nerd so 2012 December of 2012 was when we launched the flip nerd podcast Yeah, I didn’t have I didn’t eat my hair back then looked more like yours For those of you that are listening right now and not watching Brent’s got like awesome hair and I’ve got a bunch of gray hair so but I got a bunch of arrow wounds in my back too and It’s just part of it We all get older. Unfortunately,

Brent Daniels (00:36.238)
had to be right around there. It was 12 or 13.

Too many podcasts, Mike. You’re doing too many podcasts.

Brent Daniels (00:54.158)
That’s it.

Well, on behalf of the industry, thank you for so much incredible instruction, knowledge. You know, you really protect the industry, you really bring on real operators, which I think is important. And, you know, I love being a part of Investor Fuel, incredible community there. And so thank you. Thank you for all that you do for the community, for sure.

Mike Hambright (01:17.395)
Thanks for the kind words, Thanks for the kind words. gotta, in this industry, and you’ve been around a long time too, but you gotta be a little bit of a honey badger, right? You’re like, you just can’t give, it’s real, there’s lots of times to give up, or you feel like giving up, but you just gotta keep going, Yeah. That’s right.

Brent Daniels (01:32.162)
Well, that’s when the work starts. The work starts when you want to give up. Truly. You know, it was interesting. I was, was, was listening to a, her Mosi. and I think he’s just like a, philosopher, business philosopher of our time. And he talks about, you know, when you start, you fail and then you learn and then you succeed and then you get complacent and then you fail again. And it’s, it’s this, it’s this big cycle. So I think that, you know, if you get to a position where.

You know, you’re growing and you’re kind of just chilling and you know, the turbulence of the market, which always happens, there’s always cycles in the market and things change all the time. You have to learn a new technique or you have to make some adjustments to your staff or whatever else. It’s exciting. You know what I mean? Then you get to go back into the learning phase, which then makes you go into higher levels of success. So I truly believe that the work starts when you want to quit for sure.

Mike Hambright (02:18.429)
Yeah.

Mike Hambright (02:27.742)
Yeah, it’s so I came out of corporate America before I was a real estate investor left corporate America in 2008 or I’ll say corporate America left me so but you if you think about it if you’re in a traditional job you are an analyst and then you’re a manager and then you’re a director and there’s like levels right and so there’s also this concept that I brought up here recently on another podcast that people have probably heard this phrase the Peter principle the Peter principle is like people usually get promoted right up to the level that where they’re in

So you just like, you don’t have the knowledge yet to operate at that level, but you have to learn. I mean, it’s like an athlete. start, you’re a baseball player, you start, start off in T-ball and you work your way up, right? And so inherently in our business as entrepreneurs, there’s just not a clearly defined like roadmap of your career. And what happens in Trevor Mach talks about these like pain points in your business or because Mike, I think it calls it a pain line is you get to a point every two or three years where you think about quitting and going to do something else because it got painful.

But you’re just not the leader you need to become yet to operate at that level let alone the next level right and so the problem is in our industry and probably all entrepreneurship is people get to that point and Something we get shiny object syndrome something looks easier over the other side of the fence there like I’m gonna go do a crypto day trading or something else right and it’s like I Promise you anything that’s easy right now. You’re gonna you’re gonna hit a pain point on that, too It’s gonna get hard and you’re gonna have to find ways to build your skills and

move to the next level. So everything is like that. The problem with entrepreneurs is like there’s nobody usually, other than in masterminds or relationships like we have, where you’re hanging out with people that are like pulling you off the ledge all the time. Like most real estate investors are just quick to jump off the ledge or jump into a different boat in the same pond, you know?

Brent Daniels (04:16.652)
Yeah, it’s because you make a bunch of money in this and then idle hands do the devil’s work, Mike. You know what I mean? You start chilling. You start getting to that lifestyle where you get to control your schedule and then things can get wacky. But I do believe that there’s a path. There’s obviously nuance to all the path. But I think step one as a real estate entrepreneur is you have to find your tribe. You have to find people doing this. You have to find you have to be in an environment where there are people.

Mike Hambright (04:22.817)
Yeah.

Brent Daniels (04:44.748)
that have been doing it five, 10, 15 years ahead of you. They’re gonna protect you, there’s gonna be a little bit of a shield. And also the fact is, you go and talk to friends, family, parents at school, people at church, whatever, about wholesaling real estate or novations or fix and flips or buying rental properties or all this other things, and their eyes literally gloss over.

Mike Hambright (05:10.045)
Right.

Brent Daniels (05:10.048)
It’s shocking. Like I get so excited about this business because it’s completely changed my life and

Mike Hambright (05:12.882)
Yeah.

Brent Daniels (05:15.886)
People are just like, you know, it’s just not common. It’s not this common thing that people talk about. It’s not a common discussion that people have. So being around people that can have that discussion with you is really important and people that are doing more than you is really important. And then I think the second step after you, you have to, you make the decision that you’re going to do real estate. You want to be a real estate entrepreneur. You find your community you want to be a part of, and then you do your first deal, right? You go from faith, you cross the bridge.

from faith to fact, right? We were running off faith in the beginning. We’re making offers. We’re believing that we can do this. And then once you make your first dollar in real estate, it’s a fact. And now it’s just, you know, do it again and again. I think the third stage is to fire your boss and to go full time in this business like you. Maybe you were forced to Mike. Maybe they’re like this guy.

This guy is an entrepreneur. just we got to get him out of here. He’s too independent thinking. You know what I mean? He wants too much control of his life. But you fire your boss and you go full time into this business and then and then the the the governor’s off right? The the the brakes are off. You are going full speed and then you replace yourself in the business and then you go and buy incredible assets. And so I think that that five step process now obviously how you get there, the techniques that you use are all different. It just depends on your vision for

Mike Hambright (06:10.014)
you

Brent Daniels (06:37.454)
your own company and your own life. But those are those are the five steps that I see are really important. and anybody can do it. Anybody can do this if you have the right attitude. I will take attitude. Well, listen, it’s interesting. I watched this clip of a really successful college basketball coach and they asked him on defense. What’s more important, attitude or technique?

Mike Hambright (06:49.532)
If you and I can do it, anybody can do it,

Brent Daniels (07:05.642)
And he was blown away by the question because nobody asked him that. But he said 100 % attitude. He goes, you could teach technique. Attitude’s a whole different thing.

You know, if you have, if you have the attitude that you’re going to go out and be super positive and optimistic and really take massive imperfect action every single day, anyone can do this. Mike, you, you, you named it brother. You can do it. I can do it. Anybody could do it because I destroyed my life financially and crawled out of that hole, through real estate. So anybody can do this business.

Mike Hambright (07:38.697)
So before we jump in, we’re going to talk a little bit about levels to mark like.

what you need to do for Legion at each level of your business, getting started. we’re gonna start off with some probably hustle strategies and work its way up to all inbound ultimately. so, and I, you know, that’s kind of how we run Investor Fuel as well. have different groups for based on who’s doing how many deals, right? Up to our top group is people that are doing a hundred plus deals a year. And people that are operating at that level are operating, you know, they’re not solopreneurs anymore. They have big teams and their challenges are the same, but different.

like different levels. There’s different levels to this game, right? So, so let’s kind of get into the market. before we jump in, I was almost not going to ask, like tell us your background, because I feel like everybody knows the one and only Brent Daniels, but tell us a little bit about your background before we kind of jump into this besides hair model.

Brent Daniels (08:30.786)
Yeah, that’s it. was at Vidal Sassoon Salon, obviously. They were taking pictures of me. And they were like, you know what? You’re so beautiful, but maybe you should invest in assets. I,

I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I was given that as a high school graduation gift. Read that and it opened up my mind to the adventure of being an entrepreneur. And then got my real estate license while I was attending college. Graduated, became a real estate agent in 2004. And market was fantastic.

when the market’s fantastic, everybody’s a genius. And so I didn’t know any better. I opened up my own brokerage two years later, because I thought I was going to be the next Gary Keller, right? Keller Williams creator, and made a ton of mistakes.

Mike Hambright (09:07.966)
Yeah.

Brent Daniels (09:24.212)
signed a lot of personal guarantees for office space, bought a lot of properties that, you know, within a year, 18 months lost 50 to 75 % of value in the downturn. So for closed on five properties had two cars repoed from my car, from my, from my driveway had,

Yeah, I had the worst credit score you could possibly have. Easily the worst credit I had such a bad credit score, they wouldn’t give me a checking account, I went to Wells Fargo, Bank of America, National Bank of Arizona, Chase, all of them said, nope, your credit’s too bad. We think you’ll overdraft. So I had to get some weird, obscure online debit card. It was crazy. And so probably, yeah, probably. They still have my money. Yeah.

Mike Hambright (10:06.59)
Was it through a Chinese bank,

Brent Daniels (10:13.216)
No, but you know, lost everything in that, but it was, it was, I think it was important. I think there’s something about being an entrepreneur, Mike, that you really got to get kicked in the teeth at some point. You got to really make that big error. You got to really test your boundaries. You got to really fail big at some point. and.

all the best entrepreneurs that I know have. And I was lucky enough to do it before I had kids. I was lucky enough to do it before I had a tremendous amount of assets. And so made the mistakes in my 20s and tried to diminish my ego. It didn’t go away completely, but the inflated ego got popped. And then just started scratching and clawing, started door knocking because I didn’t have any budget for marketing.

and found some opportunities door knocking and then realized if I had a name, address and phone number of property owners that had vacant or really run down houses, I could make a fortune. And that’s what I did. Nine to noon every single day for seven years, Mike, I made cold calls to property owners, asking them if they would consider an offer in their property and did hundreds of deals that way.

Mike Hambright (11:13.309)
Yeah.

Brent Daniels (11:25.942)
and then was able to settle some lawsuits for some judgments that I had on some personal guarantees that I signed. And then was off and running and could actually buy assets again. Because the crazy thing is when you have judgments on you, they don’t let you close on real estate. So I had to restart this whole thing up, And it’s been exciting. But I never want to have that stress again. That’s for sure.

Mike Hambright (11:45.115)
wow.

Mike Hambright (11:52.211)
Yeah, for sure. Maybe we could stick on that for just a minute, because I feel like, you know, a lot of people that are looking to get started in real estate investing, we’ve got a lot of pro level people that are listening to this, but this will resonate with everybody listening, is a lot of people, before they’re entrepreneurs, are afraid to fail. And I think once you’ve gotten kicked in the teeth, and we all have, I mean, I have too, many times, is now you’re not afraid to get kicked in the teeth. You’re just like, well,

here’s how I’m gonna prevent the down, here’s how I’m gonna, we kinda learn how to mitigate risk, right? It’s like, well, I know if I fail, I’m just gonna get up again and figure it out. I’m gonna keep going like a honey badger until I figure it out. But you also learn how to mitigate your downside, like okay, like I’m swinging for the fences, but I know how to mitigate. There’s some levers to this business where you can kinda mitigate your risk a little bit instead of like being like all in and like no protection whatsoever, right?

Brent Daniels (12:48.194)
Yeah, I think you really have to, it’s Warren Buffett’s rules and it never made sense to me until my brain developed more, I guess. You know what I mean? Like, I think I just had a mushy brain for too long. Too many shots to the head playing football and too many beers in my younger age. the rule number one is don’t lose money. Rule number two is read rule number one.

You know what I mean? So I think if you protect the downside and think worst case scenario on projects, then the upside is so much better. And so I think if you work from a position where you only buy really great deals.

I was I was I was, you know, I had I was bidding at the foreclosure auction back in 2009, 2010. I remember the guy bidding for me was this old Italian guy and he was like, yeah, listen, you’re not going to be Trump. You’re just doing some deals here and there. You’re not going to be develop anything. Have some singles, have some doubles, and then it ends up being a nice year. You know what I mean? And he was totally wrong. Totally just go for the home runs. Seriously, just go for the home runs. And when the market does shift,

You’re not gonna be the one that has that horror story where you lose $500,000 to a million dollars when you’re flips or when you’re tied up in projects. now we look at things, we source our own deals, which is phenomenal. And we’re getting into doing some more flips this year to squeeze the most out of every deal. But we do a fantastic job assigning deals as well.

Mike Hambright (14:25.288)
Yeah, yeah. So let’s jump into kind of levels, marketing levels. How do we say it? Marketing levels is basically what you should be doing from a marketing standpoint at each level of your business as you’re kind of getting started to scaling up,

Brent Daniels (14:37.486)
Yeah, let’s look at the four main and then there’s one that’s kind of like, know, once you’re an investor fuel and you’re making millions, you know, then you can get into the fifth level. But the first level is zero dollars to 2000, right? If your marketing budget per month is zero to $2,000, you are in hustle season.

Okay, this is when you’re making tremendous amount of offers on MLS properties that are just, you know, rotting on the market. This is when you are posting that Mike, this will work for everybody listening. You can do four free deals this year. Let me just tell you, you go into Facebook, you go into the market, you go into the group section of Facebook.

You go into any of the markets that you’re in, right? Arizona real estate or I love Arizona or whatever it is, like the community groups, start friend requesting as many people as Facebook will allow you every single day till you have 5,000 Facebook friends. And then every single day post to your stories, not.

to your, it used to be called the wall. I don’t know what it’s called now, but not an actual post, but to your stories. So it disappears every day. I buy houses, send me your deals. I buy houses, send me your deals. You do that. am telling you people will come out of the woodwork and send you incredible opportunities. You do it every single day. You’ll do an extra four deals. I guarantee it.

I guarantee you’ll do an extra four deals. If you get your Facebook friends up to 5,000, post every single day, I buy houses, send me your deals. And so these are the type of activities that you’re doing in hustle season and always, but this is how you start. And then you’re making cold calls or your door knocking. So you find, you find ugly houses, you call them up.

Mike Hambright (16:19.39)
You gotta hustle. Yeah.

Brent Daniels (16:27.758)
You find ugly houses, you knock on the door. And that keeps your budget zero to 2000. You know, that, that, allows you to start building up your pipeline, building up your bank account. So then you can move to the next step, which is 2000 to 5,000 a month. And that’s when you. Yep.

Mike Hambright (16:42.866)
Hey Brent, let me say something real fast. I think back to that comment a little bit ago about…

not being afraid to fail is people will some especially when they’re first getting started like well I called 10 people and none of them worked out you know they gotta you gotta do this in math you gotta cast a wide net right and and truthfully most of the deals people will send you are not going to be deals like they just they want retail I mean that’s just how I think a lot of people you know you own a Legion company I own a Legion company we do we talk a lot about Legion when people say the leads suck it’s like well the reality is most leads suck for any channel you’re not looking for to convert them all you’re looking to convert

you know, relatively small percentage of those and you have to be willing to, you know, not get kicked in the teeth, but be told no, no, no, or you say no, it doesn’t, this doesn’t work, this doesn’t work, this doesn’t work. You have to kind of sort through that pile of junk to find a gem in there, right?

Brent Daniels (17:31.982)
When you’re making offers on the MLS, when you’re talking to agents, when you’re making offers or talking to people that don’t have their home on the market, off market properties, you’ll get rejected 199 times out of 200. But that one time out of 200 will be a deal. just depending on what you’re looking at, if you’re looking at an average assignment fee, it’s 15,000, average flip is 30,000. So I mean,

Yeah, you got to talk to 200 people, but one of those people is worth 15,000. So every, every rejection you get, everybody that’s kind of how much will you give me? Everybody that’s, you know, wants retail, whatever it is, it’s not going to be a deal, but one out of 200 will when you’re talking to them. And that’s, that’s the stance across the country. And so, you know, how fast can you talk to 200 people?

That- that- that’s the answer to all your questions. You know, every- every problem in our business, is solved by lead generation.

Mike Hambright (18:39.012)
sure. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, I’ve said this for years. I mean, you’ve coached a ton of people. I’ve coached a lot of people is that most real estate investors quit before they ever do one deal because they just give up because it’s like, you know, it’s a, as they say, it’s a dress and overalls and it’s called hard work. You got to be willing to do that. You got to be willing to do the work. Yeah.

Brent Daniels (18:56.91)
But that’s nice. mean, listen, this is a skills based business. If you really want to get down to it, this is a skills based business. If you’re going to source your own opportunities, you need to know how to effectively communicate with property owners or people that represent property owners. And the better you are at building that skill, the less people you have to talk to. But you have to build that skill. You know what I mean, Mike? They don’t sit you down in sixth grade and go, OK.

Everybody grab your phone. We’re going to be calling all of the most rundown properties and the owners around town and you’re going to have a conversation with them and start developing this effective communication with property owners. We’re going to go and call 200 real estate agents that have active listings and see if you can make a deal with them. This isn’t something that’s just natural. You know what I mean? Like this is something we have to develop. have to go.

through the hustle season. have to, you know, what is it? Chop wood, carry waters? what you say out on your farm there, Mike?

Mike Hambright (20:03.394)
I know. I don’t say that, but I don’t know what I’m doing out there. It’s like city slickers. yeah, cool. Okay. So yeah, let’s, the point in that is like, just, you got to be willing to do the work. And then I think, you know, we’re going to get to paid Legion inbound, paid Legion ultimately, and you might be converting, you know, if it’s good quality, you might be converting one out of eight or 10 of those leads, right? And so they’re just better quality leads and they come to you versus you go into them, but you gotta, you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run, right?

Brent Daniels (20:21.954)
Yes.

Brent Daniels (20:30.614)
There’s only three ways to get leads to find opportunities. You pay for somebody to call you, right? You go out every single day and you’re proactive and you reach out to them, or you build a referral base where people know, like, and trust you and they just send you the opportunities. But to get referrals, you have to build a reputation. To get people to call you, you have to have a decent marketing budget. So if you don’t have that and you’re starting out, great.

Mike Hambright (20:55.55)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Daniels (20:59.092)
Embrace the grinding that like hard work is the goal. Like just enjoy that part because you’re going to look back and you’re going to be nostalgic. Once you’re at that place where your business is just rocking and rolling, where you’re like, yeah, I put in the work. I knocked the doors. I made the calls. I built the relationships. I did all of those things. And, that’s where, you know, typically people start out because they don’t have a huge budget. And even if you do have a huge budget, you should build the skills so you don’t waste that budget.

Mike Hambright (21:02.91)
Yeah.

Mike Hambright (21:28.378)
Right. Yep. So we talked about level one here. So that’s kind of early hustle stage. By the way, the first few levels are everything requires hustle until you get to kind of closer to the end. Right. So let’s talk about the next level. Second level.

Brent Daniels (21:41.742)
Yeah. So 2000 to 5,000, this is when you start doing some direct mail. This is when you can maybe hire some virtual assistants to make some calls for you or a whole team of them to make calls for you. This is where you start testing out paper lead, you know, paper leads anywhere from a hundred to $300 a lead, maybe sometimes more in certain markets, but those are, um, you know, people that have raised their hands and said that they would

that they want to sell their property and that’s let’s just make it real basic here. Mike a lead just so everybody knows a lead is somebody that has made the decision. They’re going to sell their property. That’s what a lead is. Okay, a lead is not somebody that’s like, how much will you give me lead is it? Well, maybe, you know, just depends on what’s going on. A lead is somebody that they have made the decision in their mind. They’re going to sign a document called a deed.

that’s going to transfer ownership from them to somebody else. That’s who you should be spending your time with. That’s who you should be nurturing relationships with. That’s who you should be going on appointments with. Those are the people, whether they virtual or in person, that’s where you spend your time. And so, you know, when people are calling you, typically they’ve made that decision. That’s why you don’t need one in 200 conversations. You need one out of 15, one out of 20, maybe, depending on the marketing channel. And that’s when things get real exciting.

Mike Hambright (23:05.086)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Yep. And this implies too Brent, that you’re reinvesting your profits, right? Like you can’t go do one deal and go get that, go lease that Lambo, right? You gotta be willing to invest back in the business. I mean, that’s how you grow. You’re bootstrapping, right?

Brent Daniels (23:23.79)
Yeah, I mean, do what you want. you want to go lease the Lambo off of the one deal that you did, great. You’re just, you you better find another one. You know what I mean? And the interesting, you know, there’s like a stat mic about Lambos, which I always think about. It’s like, I think 90 % of the people that buy Lambos resell them within 18 months. Yeah. Isn’t that interesting?

Mike Hambright (23:30.398)
That’s right.

Mike Hambright (23:45.735)
Really?

Mike Hambright (23:49.491)
You know, I would say, like I don’t, I know enough to know about myself that I don’t want an exotic car because I don’t want to maintain it. Like I just don’t want the burden of it, right? I mean, I have a TRX, my second one, second one by the way, cause the first one was stolen and it’s a cool truck, but honestly that’s a pain in the ass cause it won’t fit in a car wash. Like I, so now I just don’t wash it and now I got a dirty truck all the time and you know, but it’s just like, it’s a burden. So I just, I kind of want to just want, you know.

Brent Daniels (24:01.901)
awesome.

Mike Hambright (24:18.416)
Something, I don’t know, don’t, you get to a point to where you’re like, I’m willing to pay more for just a simplified life. Like, you know, it’s like all those toys and all that stuff is cool, but I’d rather have like buddies and brother-in-laws with boats and planes and cool cars that I get to drive or hang out in every once in a while, but I want the responsibility of maintaining them.

Brent Daniels (24:37.624)
Yeah, it was interesting. saw a great Brandon Turner post on Twitter and it was like three levels of success. First level. I think you did. Yeah. The, the, the first one is you, mow your own lawn. The second stage is you hire somebody to mow your lawn. And the third stage is you mow your own lawn.

Mike Hambright (24:44.796)
Dude, I just reshared that the other day. Go ahead. Yeah.

Mike Hambright (24:56.286)
Right. made it, I shared it because I’m like, I haven’t mowed, we’re off on a tangent here for sure, but I have not mowed my own lawn at my house like in 25 years or something, right? And so I have, I’ve actually never owned a mower in my adult life until I got my ranch. But now I’ve got skid steers and tractors and it’s a dude, I love it. You can’t get me out of the tractor out there, but of course it’s a.

Brent Daniels (25:08.942)
Yeah, I don’t own a mower.

Mike Hambright (25:21.692)
Heated and cooled cab with you know, a radio in it. I can listen to Bluetooth or whatever I want. It’s a animal, but you can’t get me out of the tractor out there. I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m just cutting shit up, but. Yeah.

Brent Daniels (25:26.094)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Daniels (25:31.566)
That’s the levels of success. It’s the same. I’ve got a cabin up north and I got a riding lawnmower and it’s like the best day. Anyway.

Mike Hambright (25:38.588)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn’t that weird? But all right. So third level, went second level with two to five K. You start to mix in some more channels. You start outsourcing some of what you’re doing. You’re not doing it all yourself. And then what’s the third level look like?

Brent Daniels (25:44.45)
Yeah, 5,000 to 10,000.

Brent Daniels (25:53.198)
5,000 to 10,000, right? This is when I think that you get into the peak of all lead generation, which is pay per click. Pay per click is the highest intent leads that there are. I mean, it’s literally people searching for people to buy their house. And it’s been a night and day difference with our lead generation, Mike. I was the, I I’m the TTP guy. I’m the talk to people. I, I, you know, like I said, seven years, I talked to 45,000 property owners myself before.

I hired anybody before I changed my marketing technique. I grew up trained by the Mike Ferry organization, which is a real tour training organization where you get out. You don’t spend money on marketing. You go and earn the money because you don’t want you want high profitability. You want to actually take money home, right? And and so it took me a long time to really.

feel comfortable spending money and having the leads come in. And my problem was that transition, Mike, the transition from that first two marketing budgets to the third one is you have to be so good when those leads come in. You have to put your best people or yourself on those leads when they come in and you have to answer calls live. If you’re doing direct mail, if you’re doing TV, if you’re doing billboards, if you’re doing radio, if you’re doing

anything where people are calling a number, you have to answer it live. And second, if they fill out a form in a PPC or PPL lead, you have 30 seconds to call that lead. 30 seconds. didn’t know, Mike, I didn’t know this. I think, I was like, well, it takes us like 90 days to build a relationship with these outbound leads. It takes us 120 days to close them when we’re door knocking and making cold calls, because we’re kind of catching people before.

They’ve really buttoned up everything that they need to do to sell it. But this PPC is 24 days, From the first day that we talk to them to the day we get paid is 24 days. These people are ready. And if you don’t respond fast, they’re going to move on. They’re going to put their information on some other site. Whoever gets out there, they’re going to start negotiating. then you really

Mike Hambright (27:47.558)
Right. They didn’t raise their hand. You just jumped out of the bushes at them. Yeah.

Brent Daniels (28:13.378)
you really lose your momentum if you don’t get on these leads fast. And it took me time to really develop that and my team to really develop that, but now we’re gangster. Now we are all over. We call them 22 times in the first day if they don’t answer. Yeah.

Mike Hambright (28:27.474)
Wow, that’s crazy. So then what’s the fourth level look like?

Brent Daniels (28:34.638)
10k plus. I think at 10k plus you start moving to one main marketing channel. One really good one that you’re really, really strong at. You can start. I think it should be PPC. In my experience, it’s just less leads, bigger leads, faster cash cycle. You can find really great opportunities, get in and out and keep that money rolling or direct mail. Either one. It just depends on your market. Some markets.

Mike Hambright (29:01.278)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Daniels (29:03.79)
are better for each one. And then, but then you’re starting to work towards all inbound. I think if you’re at 10,000 plus, you start really working all inbound leads, all people reaching out to you and you’re going to make your team really happy. And then from there you just, you know, 10 K plus you’re, you’re, you’re really, really, really dialed in to inbound leads and, less leads, but more

more quality leads in your closing on one out of 15, one out of 20, as opposed to one out of 70 to 200.

Mike Hambright (29:38.94)
Right, right. a couple of things to kind of share about Inbound Lease, because obviously we do, Investor Machine does direct mail in a big way, right? And so it is, yeah, yeah.

Brent Daniels (29:46.242)
Which we used three deals last week, Mike. Three deals last week we locked up from our direct mail campaigns. Yeah. From Vest machine. Yeah.

Mike Hambright (29:54.515)
from Investor Machine. That is awesome, dude. I’ll tell you this.

These inbound channels are higher profit too. Like in our, in all of our experience is they typically have a two to three X profit margin than outbound. And again, outbound has a place and I’m not saying that anybody shouldn’t do it, but as you kind of grow and scale, you just are going to tend to do more inbound because it’s a way to like spend less of your time and more of your money. If you don’t have a lot of money, then you got to spend your time and you got to hustle your way to that. Right. But then you get to a point that’s like, you know, even if you back to the cashflow quadrant again,

you want your money to make money. Like you need to find a way to get your money to make money so that leads are coming in while you sleep, right? And so, and then here’s the other thing I’ll say about inbound leads is they work really well together. Like people get a mailer and they go online and they’re gonna Google you. And if you are, you know, if you’re targeting your keywords from a pay-per-click standpoint, if you’re buttoned up on SEO, they’re more than likely gonna find you. And you wanna kind of have this Omni presence where they just like everywhere they look, I see you, right?

Brent Daniels (30:59.352)
Yeah, that’s exactly right. Not only that, but it’s just, it is shocking, Mike, how many people fumble the bag when that lead comes in. And there truly isn’t much really good, high skills competition. Like we get that lead, we’re going to close that lead. You know what I mean? We might get outbid here or there, but.

Usually when that happens, they cancel and come back to us anyway. but if you have the sales skills, you have the sales process, you’ve got everybody on board. They’re not getting exhausted because it’s not one out of, you know, 70 of these cold call leads or text message leads per deal. It’s one out of 15 or 20. Our, our team wakes up Chad, my junior acquisition manager who does all the inbound.

Ryan and Joshua, my guys that that go out, my acquisition managers that go out in the field. I mean, every day they’re like in anticipation that that awesome leads going to come in and we’re going to get it right now and it’s going to close in 24 days. Like that kind of excitement matters. You know I mean? Like the turnover of of really quality, like I’m talking a plus talent.

A plus talent wants to win. They want to win. So you got to put our job is to put them in a position to win and they want to win often. If they only win one out of 70 times, it gets exhausting and it starts chipping away at this like confidence that they have. You go one out of 15, one out of 20, one out of 10. They’re just, they’re waking up every day like their hair’s on fire.

They’re waking up like electricity is coming out of their fingertips. You know what I mean? Stars in their eyes, Mike. And so when you get inbound figured out, it’s night and day. And then when you start mixing in different exit strategies, whoo, this business gets real profitable.

Mike Hambright (32:51.678)
Yeah. Yep.

Mike Hambright (33:05.426)
Yeah. Well, and real scalable too. like the problem with, you know, some of the earlier stages that we talked about here is…

people aren’t doing a lot of deals at that level. Quite frankly, just, there’s not enough activity going on. But then because you can’t scale your hustle, right? You can hire people, but then it costs money. And then you get to a point to where when you start doing paid Legion, pay per click, direct mail, TV, things like that, like you, all you need to do is you’re generally not doing it yourself. Most shouldn’t be doing it themselves. They should hire somebody like you guys for pay per click investor machine for direct mail on and on. Right. It’s like, you could tell your service provider like, Hey, I want to double my budget.

it next month. And it’s not all it takes you is a text or an email like you don’t have to go work any harder. You have to spend more of your money. But that’s the point you’re at is when you can start to have your money make money for you, then it’s way easier to scale that up. Yeah.

Brent Daniels (33:56.206)
100%. And listen, this is the best business ever. mean, everybody is just one conversation away from an incredible opportunity. Dolph DeRuys, who I’ve had in my studio a couple of times, he lives here in Phoenix, is absolutely incredible. He had a quote from way back when, like early 2000s, that the deal of a lifetime comes around about once a week. You know what I mean? And I think that that’s so powerful. And I think if you keep that optimism, it makes this business

So exciting. And again, that goes back to your attitude. Like the attitude that you have towards this is everything. You know, the technique can be taught, the skills can be taught or hired. But if you have the right attitude, the right, you know, just in your business coming from you and, and then infecting the rest of your, your staff, it’s, inevitable that you’re going to do really well.

Mike Hambright (34:27.826)
Yeah, yeah.

Brent Daniels (34:52.046)
Do really, really well. Build a fortune. Like, buy all the assets that you want. Have that, you know, F you money if you want or that passive mailbox money. You know, all that stuff. It is 100 % achievable. If you have the incredible bulletproof attitude, you take massive and perfect action every day and you follow that path of getting inbound leads and hiring really top tier talent.

to take care of each role and they should be better than you in each role.

Mike Hambright (35:23.422)
That’s awesome. And Brent, honestly, I’ve always known you to have an infectiously positive attitude, buddy. Yeah, yeah.

Brent Daniels (35:28.782)
Thank you. Yeah, why not? Listen, I know what it’s like. Like I spent two years from 2011 essentially to 2013. It was like I was just in my shell. I was like my ego was destroyed. My bank account was destroyed. My credit was destroyed. Went through a divorce at the time. Like it was just an absolute mess from 2009 to 2013. And then I found wholesaling and then I found flipping.

And then I found like all these opportunities of lending money and doing all this other stuff. And life is so incredible. If you go out and really, really take some action, build it up. So you have a bank account to be able to put into marketing, have people reach out to you and buy their houses. It’s awesome. How can you not be excited? How can you not have conviction?

Mike Hambright (36:16.542)
That’s awesome, buddy. Hey, Yeah, Good stuff, buddy. Hey, if folks want to follow you, they want to learn more, we probably could add a whole bunch of links where you’ve got like six million links you could probably follow. But you do have obviously your podcast, the Wholesaling Inc. podcast. What else do you want to drop here? You got your pay-per-click agency where you’re working with real estate investors now? Drop some links, buddy. Drop some links.

Brent Daniels (36:38.338)
Yep. Yeah, so we put a lot of love into our YouTube channel. That’s just Brent Daniels on YouTube. So definitely check that out. And yeah, I stole some guys from a Google. Google outsourced their Google ads to this company called T-Tech here locally. And I stole a couple incredible people from there that were spending millions. And I brought them in-house. And they did an incredible job. And then students started asking and other friends in the industry started asking.

We opened up an agency and you can check that out at TalkToPeople.com. TalkToPeople.com spelled out. get an audit done. Get an audit on your market. Get an audit on your current account if you’re already doing it. Make sure that it’s as efficient as possible. If it is, we’ll tell you. If not, we’ll give you some suggestions and would love to work with everybody.

Mike Hambright (37:27.248)
Awesome, dude. Thanks for joining me today. We need to hang out some more. I always love hanging out with you. We text here and there and got you on a podcast, but we need to hang out a little more. Awesome. Thanks for joining. Everybody, hope you got some good insights from today. There’s levels to this game is basically the point.

Brent Daniels (37:29.624)
Thanks, Mike. Good to see you. You’re the best.

Brent Daniels (37:38.702)
You got it, brother.

Thank you.

Mike Hambright (37:47.807)
And most people that get in this business want to get to the level where they have more freedom in their life. I know that a lot of folks listen, if you’re early in your career, you think you want money, but that money is what gets you the freedom that you ultimately are gonna want, I promise you that. So keep listening to guys like Brent and following us here on the Investor Fuel podcast. And we look forward to helping you get to the next level. So appreciate you guys, we’ll see you on the next show.