Creative Real Estate Investing & Fix-and-Flips in 2025

Christian (00:01.142)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Today I’m joined by Virgilio Mateo. He’s a seasoned real estate professional with over a decade of experience. He actually started in the multifamily property management company and actually sold it. And then I’m going to edit that part out. He’s actually the co-founder of Dawn Ava Capital. He and his team have completed 30 creative real estate deals, including wholesale transactions, wraparound mortgages and subject two strategies.

and also has built a 12 property rental portfolio using creative finance. So my friend, welcome to the show. Super excited to talk with you today. Why don’t you just introduce to the audience who you are, your background and just how you got here,

Virg Mateo (00:39.82)
Yeah, thank you for having me, Christian. Yeah, so I’ve been in the industry for about a decade now. Started off in property management. Did a lot of like multifamily in San Francisco and based out of the Bay Area, born and raised there. Then we started actually going into, then I went into HOA management. Was curious about it. It’s a whole different monster, the HOA business. Then that company.

Then we got acquired by a big tech firm that wanted to get into HOA. So I actually left as soon as we got sold, started my own company. lot of the clients followed me and then was able to jumpstart my business pretty quickly. And then we we specialize in a lot of luxury, like HOA condos in San Francisco and Marin County. Then after that, about a couple of years later, then I…

And she sold that to another smaller property management company who wants to get into HOAs and just supporting local businesses. want to put it that way. And then went full-time real estate investing, discovered creative financing, ran into like Pace Morby, watched all those videos. And then ever since then, it’s just been full force and keep on trucking, man.

Christian (02:05.218)
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So what would you say, you know, how did your experience in HOA management shape your approach to investing in real estate?

Virg Mateo (02:14.955)
Yeah, a lot of what it was was because a lot of the portfolio that we get and the flips that we’re currently doing right now, a lot of those are remote. So I’m in Denver right now and with HOA management helped me because we had, I think by myself and another in our VA, we had about let’s say six, seven properties and then about a thousand doors. So we had to do all that remotely.

And I had to teach my VA how to do stuff remotely and being able to coordinate with vendors to check out the properties with inspectors, meet people, even figure out how to save money and hire an employee or an intern without paying salary. So I actually teamed up with teamed up with like the YMCA in San Francisco and they had like an intern program and they helped.

and I would just help them. They would be like essentially like the boots on the ground. They would provide access to the vendors to get into the buildings and be able to, I mean, help these kids. I’m either their first job or their second job or whatever it be and just exposing them to the real world and helping like project management, project management and using a lot of software. Like I use Notion. We use Notion to organize everything because we do have multiple flips going on at once.

Yeah, HOA management prepared me for that, essentially.

Christian (03:46.05)
That’s awesome, man. That’s awesome. So let’s talk about, you know, Don, I have a capital for those that don’t know, you know, you’re the co-founder of that company. I’m curious to know, man, like what was the vision behind Don have a capital.

Virg Mateo (03:58.54)
Yeah, we were just a bunch of me, me and my two partners, Angel and Alex, we met at a meetup in the Bay Area. And ever since then, knew we wanted to like work together. We became friends at the end of the day and we love real estate. Never met anybody else in the game who’s like committed as those two or just is willing to work like 11 p.m. or even midnight.

just under underwriting deals or even just talking on real estate. There are times our type of partnership, there are times where we’re just on zoom and we don’t say anything. we’re just doing, yeah, we’re just we’re just on there. And just being around being surrounding surrounding yourself around like like minded people. And we just want to do real estate. Overall vision is to touch all facets of real estate depending on what the market gives us. And as far as

Christian (04:36.322)
You know, for the best. Yup.

Virg Mateo (04:55.309)
to make yourself a good investor, you have to be able to adapt to whatever the market throws at you.

Christian (05:01.826)
100%. I couldn’t agree anymore. And think it’s so important, man, to find, you know, partners and also people that you can be friends with, right? That honestly almost wanted more than you do sometimes, right? To keep you pushing, right? To keep igniting that fire in you. I just think it’s crucial to have that for longevity, especially, especially in real estate in this business, You know, you got to have that grit. You got to have that tenacity to keep pushing late nights, early mornings. You take everything, right? Cool, man. So

Virg Mateo (05:08.973)
Mm-hmm.

Virg Mateo (05:20.802)
Bye!

Virg Mateo (05:24.77)
Mm-hmm.

Virg Mateo (05:28.254)
Exactly, exactly.

Christian (05:30.036)
I’m curious to know too, I mean, I know you do a lot of creative finance, so could you maybe just break down some of the creative financing strategy you use, like subject two, I know you do some wraparound mortgages. There’s a lot of people that know what that means and there’s also a lot that don’t. So how about you break that down for us?

Virg Mateo (05:33.581)
Mm.

Virg Mateo (05:46.382)
Yeah, so a lot of our main back in last year, 2024, our main source of income and source, our main strategy was subject to and subject to was a lot is basically we’re taking over somebody else’s mortgage and pay the mortgage on their behalf. The deed gets transferred to us, but the debt stays in the owner’s name. So the type of sellers that are willing to do that, if there’s like low to no equity.

So we bought a lot of properties that were bought in 2022 and those low interest rates, our lowest interest rate was like 2.5 % that we took over. Like that’s, that’s unheard of in this market now. And being, yeah, being able to help these sellers get out of the situation where they don’t have to pay out of pocket at closing because they have low to no equity, right? But they really need to sell. So that’s how we were able to, the one way we helped sellers and then

Then we would, on the other spectrum, we would look to help buyers. So we would do a wraparound mortgage. So we would keep the subject to 2.5 % rate and then wrap it for like five, six, 7%. I mean, we try to beat the market as much as possible with the market is offering. And a lot of those wraparound mortgages, we own or finance to them. So we become the bank. And yeah, we become the bank at the end of the day, because we’d rather…

We’d do a wraparound mortgage than be a landlord to be honest. Just because the buyers are not going to call chase if your toilet is leaking. So we’d either prefer that and a lot of those wrap buyers typically are for people who can’t get approved for a traditional loan like a lot of I-10 holders, a lot of business owners because they would get they get approved for

Christian (07:17.472)
Yeah.

Christian (07:25.153)
Yep.

Virg Mateo (07:41.646)
regular financing but they get like high interest rate probably get 20, 25 % down with like, there was one with a, there was one case where we’re speaking to a lender, they had a buyer had around like a 720 credit score. They still got, they still required 20 % down and they got like a 10, 9 % interest rate. We’re like, okay, yeah, maybe we can beat this still.

Christian (08:05.89)
Yeah, seriously.

Virg Mateo (08:08.973)
So we tried to figure out ways to do that all last year during the crazy times of the higher interest rates and the high sevens. if what we tell a lot of the buyers like what matters to you more the monthly payment or is it the purchase price? because the higher like in a regular market, the higher the interest rate, the higher the interest rate, the lower the purchase price. And then vice versa, lower the interest rate, the higher the purchase price. So we what we

work with them is figure out what is most comfortable for them to make that monthly payment.

Christian (08:45.538)
Very cool, very cool, man. That’s awesome. I’m curious too, man. I know you do some wholesaling as to right now, right? Are you still actively wholesaling? Okay, cool. So I mean.

Virg Mateo (08:52.043)
Yeah.

Not as much, but we’ve wholesale like lot of like sub two deals. That’s what we’ve done.

Christian (09:00.116)
Okay, got it. Right now you’re more primarily focused on doing fix and flips, correct? Okay, so I’m curious, I mean, why the shift in, I mean, I know you’re in multiple different markets right now. And so for again, for those that don’t know what markets you’re in, you can share that, but why the shift in the fix and flips?

Virg Mateo (09:05.271)
Correct. Yeah.

Virg Mateo (09:18.665)
Yeah, because towards the what we see like subject to like creative financing, specifically subject to is like a seasonal type of thing. Let’s let’s say subject to works a lot more during like the spring and summer. Just a lot of people need to sell the prices are a lot higher. And depending on the situation, yeah, depending on the sell the situation, they met of it’s probably a new loan and

they are going to have to pay out of pocket, which we want to avoid. And we shifted to fix and flips last winter. So those properties still on the market in the winter need to sell ASAP. And we want to be able to fix and flip and hit the market in spring. That’s our goal.

Christian (09:51.212)
interesting.

Christian (10:11.419)
That makes a lot of sense. I did not know that. I didn’t know it was almost a seasonal thing in that. That’s really interesting,

Virg Mateo (10:16.395)
Yeah, but you can do subject to anytime. I mean, just depends on the seller. But we see like when we bought all our rentals and do the wraparound mortgages, it was during the busy season.

Christian (10:19.818)
Right. Right.

Christian (10:29.522)
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Gotcha, man. So I’m curious, mean, it sounds, I heard you mention you use Notion, which is a great tool by the way. People that don’t use it, highly recommend it. But I’m curious, I other than Notion, mean, what other systems, what type of operations do you have in place, strategies that helps you scale your current company right now?

Virg Mateo (10:37.773)
Mm-hmm.

Virg Mateo (10:50.165)
Yeah, it’s we keep it like fairly simple. We just use notion everything is on their step by step from for like the acquisition, quote unquote acquisition department, even though there’s just like what four of us. So it’s us three and, and a VA from the Philippines. She does she has like a degree in accounting. She happened to have the same last name as me. That was the weird part. We’re like, Hey, are we related? Yeah. And then, yeah, she handles a lot of our accounting and we’re

Christian (11:08.663)
Yeah.

No kidding, That’s crazy.

Virg Mateo (11:18.061)
teaching her to do a lot of like the underwriting just so we can free up so every everyone is delegated essentially a role so what I do I do like a lot of the operations and Operations and acquisitions, so I do a lot of the negotiating with the wholesalers when we buy flips Angel he’s our numbers guy. He does a lot of works with the hard money loans He works with acquisitions as well and like the operations and then Alex. He’s our capital raiser so when we buy these flips

We get a hard money loan, then we get private money to like gap funding from private money. So we would raise on that. So he deals with all that. So everything is all spread out and we just literally on zoom 24 seven. So if I’m not on this podcast right now, I’m going to be on zoom with, the team and we’re in concept. Exactly. Just constant communication. Even like when we’re on the way.

Christian (12:08.354)
Grinding it out. Yeah.

Virg Mateo (12:14.953)
somebody just hops on zoom or we all just FaceTime each other. Like we’re always in constant communication and that’s what helps scale then keep everyone keep everyone sane when people say like, cause we’re doing currently right now we have around like nine flips across like three markets. So we’re in like San Antonio majority of our flips are here in Denver and Sacramento. so we have to keep, we have to stay in constant communication at all times if

We want to get that and people say like oh, do you lose sleep? I go no, sleep perfectly Yeah, it’s it’s just as long as you have your SOPs at the end of the day Like you can you can free up your time a little bit more

Christian (12:49.58)
Yeah.

Christian (13:00.372)
Absolutely, 100%. I’m curious, man. I mean, you got nine projects going on right now. I mean, what’s been your experience with contractors, good or bad?

Virg Mateo (13:09.069)
It’s been good so far. The way we vetted the contractors are from referrals as opposed to us Googling, hey, here’s contractors in San Antonio or contractors in Denver. It was all through referrals and people who have used them before. And ever since then, we let the people who refer them, hey, we’re about to give them a lot of work.

So just to give you a heads up, I know you might be using it, but a lot of the people who’ve used them, I mean, they, I would say they don’t think like us, like trying to do as much flips as you can, essentially, right? They’re not looking at scale. It’s just more of like, hey, let me do a flip or two a year. I mean, our goal is when we go into like a strategy, we go full force. And that’s why I love working with this team. I mean, everyone just goes, you guys down to do it? All right, let’s do it.

Christian (14:05.184)
Yeah, that’s it, man. It’s like you don’t even question it. We’re going to do this, right? Yeah, 100%. I think everybody has to eventually make that a goal to align with people like that, man. I mean, because I mean, it’s so true, right? Your network is your net worth, right? And the people that you build with, the people that you eat with is everything, right? So, and that leads me to asking you, mean, let’s say for people that are wanting to approach and be able to create, you know, business partnerships, they want to get a partner in real estate or just business in general.

Virg Mateo (14:08.481)
Yeah, exactly.

Christian (14:34.762)
I mean, in your opinion, what makes a trustworthy partner and what do you look for in somebody in a partner?

Virg Mateo (14:43.563)
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day is, they willing to, how committed are they? Like if they’re willing to, cause we do this full time and we all don’t have like W-2s or anything and that’s what helped. And when I was like a real estate agent back in a couple of years ago, what really stuck to me, there was one like veteran real estate agent that said to me, he goes, if you’re a part-time agent, I don’t know if I can.

Christian (14:53.75)
Yeah.

Virg Mateo (15:12.375)
cuss on this but but okay if I am a yeah so if you’re a part-time agent you’re a part-time asshole like you’re not gonna have are you gonna have a part-time agent list your property or do you want a full-time agent that puts all their full attention to list and try to sell your property and that like stuck with me like for ever since then I’m like yeah if I’m gonna do something I have have to go just full force

Christian (15:13.942)
No, you go ahead. Yeah, you’re absolutely welcome.

Virg Mateo (15:38.061)
on it and then if I fail then shoot I’m happy that I tried and on to the next venture or start something new.

Christian (15:45.356)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome, man. So it seems like, you you’ve definitely have always had that entrepreneur in you, man, in your blood to be able to do things. But I’m curious, I mean, how difficult was it for you to build, you know, the skills that you in and develop into the person you are today? Like, how was that journey for you? I mean, you were a real estate agent. I’m sure you’ve been through, you know, many other endeavors as well. But I mean, kind of share, you know, what kind of things have you utilized to develop yourself into the person you are today?

Virg Mateo (16:15.019)
Yeah, was before real estate. was actually in nursing school and I mean, yes, school wasn’t hard, but it was just, there was no passion for it. So I ended up leaving nursing school, didn’t know what the heck I wanted to do. So I stumbled across like property management. I, the job I originally applied for it for that company was an IT position had nothing to do with real estate. They’re like, it was for like a college. was for USC.

Christian (16:19.894)
No kidding. Wow.

Virg Mateo (16:44.799)
It was all I had to do was troubleshoot like cable boxes and call. mean, that was like some easy stuff, but I didn’t have experience. So they didn’t hire me, but they’re willing to interview. then from there, a lot of trial and error. Yeah. I would say from, from here, from there, just moved up the ranks, went full force into property management and got to learn how to time manage my time, manage myself and just say like, screw it. I mean, just, just go for it.

Christian (16:52.844)
Yeah.

Christian (17:12.94)
Yeah. Yeah.

Virg Mateo (17:14.237)
That’s really what it was. Even me moving to Denver was like, hey, screw it, I’m moving to Denver. Probably, I found out probably like a month or like a month before, like, hey, I’m moving to Denver, guys. We’re about to do a lot of flips there. Screw it, man, let’s do it. Yeah, yeah. If not, like you’ll never know.

Christian (17:32.022)
I love that. Burn the boats, right? We’re gonna do it, right? Yeah. And I think that’s what stops a lot of people. Right. It stops a lot of people, right? Because it’s just getting started is the hardest part for most, right? And it’s like, if you never take that jump, you’re never gonna know. And we’re already here for such a short amount of time anyways. So you might as well go do the thing that you’ve been wanting to do for so long, but just never mustered up the courage to go do it, you know? Because looking at it now, what if you didn’t move there? How different would your life look like?

Virg Mateo (17:43.191)
Mm.

Christian (18:01.738)
Right? So I believe everything happens for a reason, man. It’s just comes down to timing. And I’m curious to know as far as your, your timing, I mean, what do you see yourself in the next few years, man? Like, you know, what’s your long-term vision, you know, for you and your partners, or you guys eventually wanted to transition into commercial real estate? Like, what are some of those goals that you have in mind?

Virg Mateo (18:07.224)
Exactly.

Virg Mateo (18:23.361)
Yeah, so right now, I’m glad you asked that. we actually just had this conversation the other day. So we were all this year, we want to do all fix and flips and probably might bleed into like the next year, but eventually get into business, business acquisitions. Just, just so we want to start buying businesses, build a portfolio of businesses, package that up. We want to be in like the blue collar industry. So we want to.

Christian (18:29.601)
Yeah.

Christian (18:40.482)
Very cool.

Virg Mateo (18:53.737)
stay within like a landscaping, let’s say a plumbing company, electrician, mean, a construction, any type of construction company, blue collar business, package that up and hold it for like five years, five to seven years, and then sell it to like a big hedge fund and then exit, exit from there and then keep doing it. I don’t think I ever like want to retire. I just want to do like real estate and real estate and business. I mean, at the, at the end of the day until, until I can’t anymore.

Christian (19:24.322)
I love that man. I love that. Well man, where can people find you? Where can people work with you? Where do they need to go? We’re going to obviously put, you know, those places all in our description or YouTube, Spotify and iTunes, but where do they need to reach out to?

Virg Mateo (19:37.161)
Yeah, you can just reach out to me like on Instagram. That’s the quickest way about getting to me. It’s at dealio with Virgilio and then you’ll be if you have any deals have any questions about the journey. I mean we all we all started somewhere. I’m not saying like I made it or anything. There’s still bumps on the road. I’m learning every every day every single day. I still make mistakes. So there’s always reach out if you want to.

If you need me to say what’s up or have a question.

Christian (20:10.016)
Awesome man. Hey, you can never make too many mistakes. That’s how you learn, right? And that’s ultimately how you got here. That’s how you got here. Well, my friend Virg, it is a pleasure, my friend. I honestly wish we had more time to talk about it, but we’d love to have you on the show in the near future again, to talk about other topics that I feel like we could discuss. just wishing you nothing but the best, man, in your future endeavors, you and your partners. And if you ever need any help with anything, give us a shout. But pleasure to have you on. Now, of course. Well, guys, I hope you enjoyed.

Virg Mateo (20:13.771)
Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Virg Mateo (20:34.529)
Yeah, appreciate it, Christian. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Christian (20:39.244)
today’s show I know I did and as always everybody we will see you on the next episode check out awesome man