Welcome back to the show! I’m really excited to have my friends, Tony and Nick Sicilian on the show today! They are brothers that operate as real estate investors and have other businesses here in the Dallas-Fort Worth market as well.

Today, we are going to talk about the ups and downs of the real estate investing business. Both Tony and I were active during the last downturn and today we are going to talk about how it has impacted the way we think about and operate our business and how that can help you prepare for a potential downturn.

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[00:00:00] Mike: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the show. Really excited to have my friends, Tony and Nick Sicilian on today. Uh, brothers that operate as real estate investors and some have some other businesses. Here in the Dallas Fort worth market, actually, Tony and I have known each other for a long time. We’re growing old together, my friend, but, uh, they were gonna be talking about the ups and downs of this business, both Tony and I we’re alive during the last downturn.

And kind of, how does that impact how we operate our businesses or how we think about the business of kind of having been through, uh, the depression before, if you will, at the last downturn, how does that make you, how does it help you prepare and how should you guys that are listening to be thinking about a potential downturn and how you operate your business today?

professional real estate investors know that it’s not really about the real estate. That real estate is just a vehicle of freedom. A group of over a hundred of a nation’s leading real estate investors from across the country. Meet several times a year at the [00:01:00] investor fuel real estate mastermind to share ideas on how to strengthen each other’s businesses, but all sorts of come together as friends.

And built more fulfilling lives or all of those around us on today’s show. We’re going to continue our conversation of fueling our businesses and our lives. I’m glad

you’re here.

Hey guys. Welcome to the show.

Tony: Hey, Hey guys. Thanks for

Mike: having us. Yeah. Good to see you. It’s uh, I probably have, we’ve probably done. About 1500 podcasts over the past, uh, seven and a half years. Gosh, hard to believe it’s been that long. And, uh, probably about a dozen times, maybe 20 times. We’ve had two people on at the same time.

Usually it’s like a husband and wife, sometimes partners. So excited to have you guys. It’s always interesting because you guys are actually sitting in a studio, so you decided to get fancy. We’re a little,

Tony: we’re a little spoiled. We, we [00:02:00] are, uh, Sicilian brothers studio, so,

Mike: yeah. Awesome. And we’ll talk about later in the show, we’ll talk about, cause you guys have a, you guys have some shows and some content that you create as well, but Hey, before we jump in, um, I’m excited to talk about this, cause I know what’s going on with some of your stuff, Tony, we’ve talked about it.

Um, and uh, I think a lot of investors out there you’re either in one of two camps either you’re. Working, you’re basically way overpaying for deals because you don’t know any better. And you think the market’s gonna continue to go up forever or you’re starting to get a little nervous and saying, I need to pull back on that risk lever because I’ve seen this party before, and I know how it ends.

So before we jump into that stuff that let’s talk about maybe a little bit about, uh, how you got into real estate investing in the first place.

Uh, as you know,

Tony: I came out of the lending world in 2004 ish, uh, and then, uh, read a quick ebook on, uh, on how to make money in real estate without using your own money.

Right. And that was like, all [00:03:00] right, this sounds like a great way to get out of corporate America. And, um, and I just jumped in and started wholesaling. So that was back in like five, 2005, 2006. So, yeah. Uh, and then we started in and out of, you know, different, uh, companies and, and advertising, um, businesses and then just kept going.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I know. There’s a, it’s funny when I hear you talking, I’m like, wow, there’s a lot more to that story, but this, we try to keep the show to like a half hour. So we could probably talk for about this for hours, right. Uh, what we, we, we largely you and I largely came up in the same, some of the same, uh, the same world really.

Yeah. Um,

Tony: it was, it was, it was a good time, right? I mean, it was just houses. There was inventory. Uh, there was the ability to buy and sell. Um, you know, as not like right now, Yeah.

Mike: Yeah. What about you next? So how did, when did you come into the

mix? So what

Tony: was it two over two years ago now? So I, I was, uh, I went to school, uh, I was an [00:04:00] engineer as a merchant Marine, uh, chief engineer off shore, and then, uh, had kids, it was getting too hard to work off shore.

So Tony saw me having struggles with that. So he’s like, Hey, why don’t you come home? And we’ll start working together. So yeah, got into lending, had an opportunity and. I knew in that sense, I think it comes down to, uh, like the time stress. It wasn’t like life factor. Right. It was just, I was spending, you know, six to 10 months away.

My kid was four and he didn’t even know my name. You know, it wasn’t worth it. So

Mike: yeah, no, I think, uh, you know, most

people that I know. Um, didn’t start in real estate investing. They, they found their way. They’re usually from like, from my story, it was getting fired from a job I loved and going to work for another company that filed for bankruptcy.

And I was like, I got to take control of this. And I’d always been interested real estate, but you know, I’ve interviewed so many people. I usually, I always ask this question, how did you get started? And there’s, there’s a common theme in that people weren’t [00:05:00] happy with where they were at, or they had some struggle that they had to overcome and they like just tired of really not having control.

And finding their way there. Little did they know at the time that the struggle will still continue,

Mike: but, but

it doesn’t have to be as bad. These are like first world problems for us. Right. There’s stuff that we complain about. Like we live great lives. We have amazing people around us. Real estate is afforded us to do a lot of things.

Are there ups and downs? Like hell yeah. But, um, it doesn’t, it’s still better than the alternative in most cases. Right. To us. It is right. Right. Some people may not be able to stomach it, but, um, so I

Mike: want to talk about, you know, uh, the fact, like

we were talking about this for a while before we started recording today, and this is, these are common discussions that w you know, guys like you and I would have, Tony is like, Hey, you’ve been through the downturn the last time.

And you learn some lessons when you touch a hot stove, right. Or, or when you see people touching hostile or things happening. And now when it’s, we don’t know where the market is. I mean, honestly, I [00:06:00] thought it’s going to take a downturn for the last. Four or five years and it just hasn’t. Um, and we’re yeah.

In the Dallas Fort worth market, obviously. So it’s a little bit insulated here, more so than most markets. Cause there’s massive, like population growth and lots of companies moving their headquarters here. And it seems like VFW can do no wrong, but there will be limitations at some point.

Mike: So maybe just talk a little bit about how.

Having been through a down cycle before, um, ha

that gets, has you thinking now about how to prepare, are you gun shy or, you

Mike: know,

Tony: uh, how do you feel? I’m definitely, uh, nervous. Uh, that’s the nervous is about the best word I could use. Um, you know, When you go and you buy a house, uh, you remember your days of walking, you know, doing those by calls, you kind of have to trust your gut, right?

Like, um, do I really, what do I feel like I can do this foundation for there’s a lot of gut, uh, an intuition that goes into it, very similar feelings right now where, uh, where we were [00:07:00] in six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, where, um, Well, in the earlier part, it’s six, seven, eight, nine. You know, there was a lot of optimism rates for things people were buying and selling.

Right. And things were appraising. Uh, for the last, I feel like 10 years, we’ve been saying like, Oh man, the market keeps going up. And for the last spot, like, okay, when’s it coming down? Um, but for the last three months I’ve been thinking, all right, we’re. We’re seeing there is a ton of writing on the wall.

That’s getting the it’s it’s, uh, reached a whole new level of silly that we need to, um, just pump the brakes. Don’t hit the brakes. Just love, tap them and see what the foot off the gas, but don’t touch the brake. Yeah. Let the motorcycle guys down. Right. Um, I’ve done that with my, uh, with our investments. Uh, you know, we went into Phoenix with you.

Uh, we had like 18 or 19 [00:08:00] houses. Um, we’re down to, I think probably 12, uh, now. And, uh, I don’t, I don’t see myself adding too many more to that, to that inventory unless they’re smoking deals. Yeah.

Yeah. That’s one, the things we’re talking about today, what are some things you can do to mitigate risk? Right.

And, and, and for those of you that are listening, just to give some context, we were talking, um, before the market that we’re in here in, in most markets, especially major markets are like this right now is it’s not uncommon for houses to be going for a hundred thousand dollars over asking price, all cash offers and for, uh, you know, new listings to get 50 to a hundred showings in the first weekend, because we’re so short on inventory that.

Um, it’s just crazy right now. And so the challenge is a lot of real estate investors are benefiting from like when they bought the house before they rehab it, you know, they assume that the after repaired value and market value, it was just saying 200,000. By the time you get done with everything it’s pushing.

Two 50, and then you’re getting like 300. So the pro, which is [00:09:00] amazing if you bought it, assuming you’re going to sell it at 200, right? The problem is, is if real estate investors tend to start to get a little sloppy and they start to say like, well, at this rate, you know, I’ll probably be able to sell for three 50 and then you start basically not buying as deep kind of becoming unprincipled in terms of how you one rehab and two, how you buy it.

You just maybe overpay because you think, well, it’s probably just going to keep going up. Um, and eventually that she will drop it. So that is, that’s kind of where we’re at in the market.

Tony: Yeah. Is when is that you’re going to drop. Right. And then, and really, you don’t want to be too far ahead of the curve.

Right. Like, I don’t want to, I don’t want to pull the brakes. I don’t want to pull the e-brake today. Right. But I definitely want to prepare for like, at least thinking about reaching for it at some point. Um, yeah. Which is weird, right? Cause I am an optimist when it comes to the real estate market. I love DFW.

I love, you know, businesses are coming here and the positivity, that’s all around this market. It’s incredible. But it isn’t [00:10:00] sustainable. I think everyone,

Mike: yeah, it’s a balance, right? You could, you could, like you say, pump the brakes

too early and lose it, miss out on opportunity. And honestly, I’d probably put myself in that boat for a few years.

I’ve thought. That things are going to slow down, like how much higher could they go? Cause when I came up in this market, you know, the, when you talk to I’ve had some mentors and people that have been around for decades doing this, and they’re like, you really can’t ever count on appreciation in Texas, you know, but that’s not been the story for the last five, six, seven, eight years at all.

It’s certainly the last three or four massive, massive appreciation. Not for my rental portfolio. That’s how I bought it. You know, like one of my mentors, Scott, Bell’s that you don’t have, he’s got a huge portfolio here. I’ve been buying since like the early eighties. Um, and uh, just all knowing he’s like Yoda, right?

And, but it’s like, Hey, you gotta, you gotta buy for cash flow. You can’t base it off appreciation for churches. My rentals have never cashflow nearly as much as I’d hope they would. And. Appreciation has saved my butt over all [00:11:00] these years. And it’s, it’s actually been amazing. Right. I’ve created a lot of wealth on papers, for sure, because of the appreciation, but it’s not something that I counted on.

Tony: And, and, and I don’t, again, I, I don’t see even guys like that, right. We have breakfast with them once a month. And, uh, and even guys like that are, are, are, are in a weird spot when those guys start to say, okay, I don’t know, like I’m seriously, officially like, Oh man, we’re, we’re not in any trouble, but you know, what do we do, Mike?

Do you know when your, so let’s just say one of your rentals in DFW. Do you know what that appreciated in the last year, Ben chance? Uh, I don’t

Mike: know. Like statistically, but I do know, I mean, I’ve got houses that we bought for 15, 20,000 and like 2010, 11, 12, and they’re worth like 120, 150,000 now, like insane.

Like they’ve gone up for five X now. I put money into those deals too. So that’s not all profit. And by the way, none of it’s profit because it’s all on paper. Cause I’m still a Holy man. But, [00:12:00] um, The appreciation has been massive and the way that we see it, cause we’ve kind of bought them and we like set it and forget it for the most part is that you see it in your tax bills, right?

You’re like, there’s no way this, how w what are they? They like tripled my value. I’m not paying taxes on that. And we go look at the cops are like, Oh, wow. It really has gone up that

much. It’s crazy.

Tony: Yeah. It’s scary. And that’s something that we were talking to Ryan about was, uh, the property taxes are, they’re just so high.

Yeah. The one thing about DFW is they’re investing the money back into the infrastructure, which I think keeping the Dallas market going, right roads, the schools, you see a lot of development. Um, and so I’m okay paying it, uh, big betting out of it. What we’re supposed to theoretically speaking. Or are you going to say about appreciation?

I was just going to say, we’re seeing it when we go to do an appraisal, right? We go, we’re going to refinance somebody that they just did hard money loan and that the appraiser’s having trouble justifying [00:13:00] the appreciation it’s there. It’s just it’s extra work. And it’s crazy what they’re seeing. I think Brandon was saying it’s like, 15% of parade he’d seen in over a 1% appreciation in a month, you know?

And, and that reason that that’s a problem is because lenders start to start to get scared by that rapid at some point,

Mike: right? Yeah. They’ll go from like, you never have a problem with an

appraisal. Like it always appraises for above. Too, like now they’re pulling on old comps. They’re like, Oh, well, why are you, why aren’t you using comps from like a year ago?

And they’re just, you just see that there’s this switch that flips where they start to get conservative or then all of a sudden stuff isn’t appraising. And then, then that’s when you start to see the market decline because people’s loans are falling out or they’re having to go back and renegotiate when you start to hear a lot of that stuff, which I’m not hearing yet, not, not have, are you guys,

Tony: um, I’m I’m, I’m seeing on our retail stuff.

I’m seeing some stuff not hit. What I think it would hit, but it’s [00:14:00] still there. So w what I may, maybe it’s just me trying to be a conservative, but I still, I think we’re, I think we’re getting there. I think we’re getting to a point where, um, you know, I finally saw a preapproval letter come over at, uh, in, three’s not in the twos, so I haven’t seen one of those in a year.

Um, so someone’s getting a 3.25 instead of a 2.99. Um, which means the rates are going up on people. So, yeah. Sounds ridiculous.

Mike: Still super low. Yeah. You know,

Tony: the fact that I just like said that out loud,

Mike: right. I was like, damn that’s. Yeah.

Tony: On, on the ninth, I had somebody tell me that four and a quarter was going to drop again.

Know I was like that it’s a non no doc loan four and a quarter it’s. Don’t don’t bank on it. And he’s like, ah, I might hold down. Investor loan. No, no doc. Right. So no income proof, no verification of income. 4.25. I mean, and he’s like, I’m going to wait on a 3,000 fix. Right? Like that’s [00:15:00] incredible. Yeah. That money’s out there for us.

Yeah, for sure. Well, let’s talk about a couple of things to mitigate risk and specifically, just to kind of team up. I wanna talk about lender relationships. You guys are in the lending business as well, by the way, for those that are listening. So they have some insights to this lender relationships. Um, maybe shifting exit strategies a little bit, and maybe some other things, like just not doing, as I know you do some massive like rehabs Tony, like you put,

Mike: you kind of go all out,

maybe overboard in some instance, I think you’d probably agree with that.

And so, yeah, so that, that that’s more risk, right? When, when you’re in a market that’s rising, um, You can do that. Right. But then at some point that’s going to share with them. So, so let’s get into kind of the lender relationship piece where, so you guys are lenders and I know you don’t tell your clients like, Hey, go talk to lots of other of our competitors.

But the truth is, is you would agree that people should be focusing on building additional relationships and what they have now, just because at some point, those lenders just go away, right?

Tony: Yeah. The good ones you hope stay. Uh, hopefully the one that you’re going to on a daily basis stays with [00:16:00] you. Look, lenders or investors too.

Right? Right. You’re just, they just picked a different vehicle. Like we invest in the asset, they picked us to invest in. So in theory, you would want multiple those, because you’re going to have to ride. If you intend to ride out the storm, they have to ride out the storm with you. Right. So maybe, uh, continue to have a conversation with that lender and say, Hey, if this, you know, look, go out to lunch and say, Hey, if this goes.

South, uh, you know, should we prepare to work differently together, right? Like, like they have that conversation with you. Yeah. Because there’s also lenders that do different things. Right. My normal lender doesn’t do commercial and multifamily or even right. Like maybe a hard money lender only does single family.

So yeah. So definitely.

Mike: That was at the event the other night. And, um, I, I bet, uh, if somebody

would have asked in the crowd, like how many of you here are lenders? Like there would have been a ton of hands go up. Right. And [00:17:00] there’s a couple of people that came up to me and said, Hey, you’re looking for business, handing out their cards.

Right. And I was like, I’ve never heard of you before.

Mike: That doesn’t necessarily mean anything. But I remember, you

know, I remember that from like, Oh seven Oh eight, like there’s just a whole, everybody. And their brother is a lender. Um, and it’s a bunch of small, independent people, which there’s nothing wrong with.

But I think for, uh, you know, folks that are looking for lender relationships, just know that those are some of the first ones to go because they don’t probably have a huge pool of money behind them. They’re lending some family money or their own money. And they, they, their limitations get hit first. And they’re the first ones to say, like I’m out because I can’t, I can’t tolerate risk, you know, as much as like right now, it seems like no risk.

Um, well,

Tony: th you know, uh, just for. Food for thought there were some lenders that pulled out in COVID right. Just a year ago. There were some lenders. I know some friends of mine who got loans in January, February, [00:18:00] March, and then when they went to get draw money and March, April, may, the lender was like, I’m not issuing draws.

Right. So if that land, if you’re still working with that lender today, You’re you’re making a mistake. Right? Cause they’re going to be one of the first ones to go the next sign, a term, like the next downturn. Right. So I would definitely look for the lenders that were there 12 months ago, uh, when COVID hit.

Right. But then also maybe like, You know, one of my private lenders that my main source of, of private money is someone that was working with me and nine, 10, 11, 12. Right? So that’s the same family that I’ve been working with. The same family I continue to work with because they were with me in the bad times.

They were with me for the last 10 years in the good times. Yeah. Um, you know, I’m loyal to them, they’re loyal to me. Um, but I definitely think you need to have diversification.

Mike: Yeah. I think from a, from a big firm, a large lender standpoint, the types of lenders that are reselling their loans, like the, the reason that they, so I know a couple of this couple that I know that stopped during COVID [00:19:00] temporarily, just because they were afraid they couldn’t resell their loans.

Right. And they’re waiting for the Mark to find out. What the resale market is going to the secondary market’s going to look like, right. And then some smaller people are using their own money and they’re like, they CA they’re going to go one way or another. They’re either going to be like, I don’t know what’s going on right now.

That’s scary to me. I’m stopping. Or I have these longstanding relationships. I’ve been through some ups and downs before. Like maybe we have to increase our rates or maybe we need their clients have a little more skin in the game, but they’re not out. Right. And so, uh, you probably should have a mixture of all those relationships, right.

Tony: And prepare for not a hundred percent financing. Yeah. You learned in March with COVID a lot of people like, Oh, what do you mean? You’re not doing a hundred percent financing. I’m like, yeah. Uh, that went away. Like you’re lucky they’re still standing. So, uh, don’t prepare for 110% financing either. Right. And that’s starting to come back to, like, people are doing, you know, I’m seeing 80% cash out refinances again, right?

Like they’re, they’re coming back, uh, that, that a hundred percent financing the other [00:20:00] night I was seeing, uh, advertising for no points. Right? Like that type of incentives to, to just throw money out there. Right. It’s back. Right? You talked about the last downturn, Mike, uh, and I think you can test for this.

There is more cash now, then there was for us in 10, 11, 12 there’s liquidity today than there was then that’s the only difference I can see from the last downturn to this downturn is there’s liquidity, which is.

Mike: Scary. Yeah, there’s a guy that I was talking to the other night at the, at the event that we were at that said, uh, he’s a lender, but a small lender and the individual person for the most part.

And I don’t know how this even came up, but he made this reference at Cassius trash. Like it’s kind of worthless right now. It used to be cash is King. Not that having cash is a bad thing, but he’s like everybody has cash. So. Yeah. That’s why rates are so low right now is, and that’s what most of all, a lot of lenders have beat them, beat each other over the head in terms of rates, because they have access to [00:21:00] capital.

And so that, that will shift when the market

Tony: shifts for sure. And so just reading it, right, reading it, talking to your lender on a daily basis and, or, you know, whatever on the frequent and yeah. Reading that. I think you should read that as much as you read your comps when you’re doing your acquisitions.

Mike: Yeah. I will say this. And this is a plug for you guys and lenders out there. Like when I first started in the business, like for several years, I thought lenders were like, You know, like it was, uh, I’m in competition with them, even though it wasn’t a lender, I’m like, I gotta beat them up. Like, they’re going to try to get one over on me.

I gotta negotiate. I gotta put the screws, screw down the rates and all that stuff. But the truth is, is a good lender is a partner right there. They’re going to help you stay safe. Just like you said, just talking to you guys or any other lender. That’s a, that’s a worthwhile lender. They can say like, look, we’re seeing some pressure on appraisals right now and kind of lead you through some things that you might not know.

Otherwise, just lessons they’ve learned from their other clients. Right. Absolutely.

Tony: Absolutely. Yeah. They should be a resource, not just, you know, [00:22:00] not just dumb money. Yeah. Eel, you know?

Mike: Right, right. Yep. So let’s talk a little bit about, um, maybe shifting exit strategies a little bit right now. So, you know, one thing about rehabbing, especially if you’re doing big ones, like you do Tony, is that the longer you hold it, the more risk you have, right.

I mean, to, for, in a, in a. Extreme example, which is a real example. If you assign a property, you have very little risks because you’re buying and selling and so fast. The market’s not going to shift in a, in a rehab situation, especially if you’re doing a heavy rehab, you’ve been up against rates, changing, uh, potential appraisal issues.

You’re up against rising material costs like rapidly rising material costs. So that, that all has more, that all has more risk. That that time, um,

Tony: keeps going up. Say it again, each time you say something, my blood pressure goes up. No, I’m sorry. I’m

Mike: sorry. Yeah.

Tony: Is that right? Yeah. Each, each day that I own that asset.

My risk just, I know it doesn’t double obviously, but my risk [00:23:00] goes up. Yeah. And yes, the thing that we’re as rehabbers, the thing that we’re competing against, uh, is rate right now, uh, like I said, that one rate came over in the threes, which. For a year has been unheard of, but you’d be surprised what, a 3.25 compared to a 2.75 does to a conventional buyer.

Right. So, um, yeah, we’re competing with, uh, and then I saw an article for, uh, you know, we all know lumber is through the roof. Uh, but, um, one of the things that we were actually able to have access to was the LDLs, the laminated beams. Right. So when you’re doing big additions, like I do, uh, you know, you need some.

Like specialty wood. Well, the glue, the petroleum that they use to make those custom beams just like got very scarce. And so now those that other piece of the building materials just went through the roof. So yeah, cost of materials is, uh, we, we have a big supply problem. We were talking about that year ago though, too.

Like when all the shipping and [00:24:00] everything went down because the ground like this, where we’re not going to see it, we didn’t see it a year ago and everybody was scared of it. But. Now we’re going to keep on seeing, and it’s going to keep on, I mean, you’re still having a problem getting appliances. So again, just.

Without trying to be like the negative. Now I’m trying not to be all down. And I feel like, because we haven’t been that way. This is the doom and gloom show at Tony. And that’s not what I’m trying to do, but absolutely. I absolutely think something happens. Um, uh, In the, in the, this year 2021 where the market just seems different.

Um, and I don’t know what we do with that information, um, outside of, like you said, prepare. Yeah.

Mike: I think the whole point is to say at some point, like, look. For you guys, you guys are my friends and everybody that’s listening. If we’ve never met before I still care about you. Right? The whole idea is like, let’s live to fight another day.

Like we’re in this business for the long-term. You don’t want to be a one hit wonder. And I had a really great year when the market was going [00:25:00] up, like. 10% a month. It’s like, okay, well, everybody, you couldn’t lose. The thing is how do you build a business that stands the test of time? And you can shift as the market shifts, because inevitably if you’re in this business right now, you want to be in it for decades.

Right? So how do you, how do you not just survive, but how do you thrive through those shifts? And there’s no way to ride that curve perfectly like a surfer. You’re going to have some spills, but it doesn’t mean you can’t get back up and do it again. You just have to make sure that you don’t like. I don’t know why I’m using a surfing analogy here, but don’t hit the rocks.

Cause then you’re dead. Right. So

you just dressed

Tony: like one. Um, and again, we’re not doom and gloom. I mean, we talk about this all the time. Uh, inventory is low, right? So that’s, that’s something totally different than in Oh eight. Right? Uh, so how can there be a drastic drop if there is no inventory, right.

And the, the other thing though, Tibet engine, who is the builders, uh, as you know, I’m doing [00:26:00] some new construction and the cities are not letting us start, right? So if they’re not there, they’re not letting me start new construction. Uh, and they’re not letting Dr. Horton start new construction because their permit process is a nightmare.

Whatever you have, uh, you have a continued supply. Problem. Yeah. So just lots of

things, kind of stranglehold on

Mike: the supply. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think the point in all this is like, you know, maybe to mitigate risk is to do rehab, maybe wholesale, more wholesale and wholesale and assign more. If you can, maybe don’t do your rehabs are a little more simple.

The thing is, is when the inventory is constrained like this, like people are taking less than perfect houses because that’s all that’s available. It’s almost like if you’re buying a used car, You can’t pick the color. Usually you’re like, wow, I really want this, but I have to take it because that’s all they’ve got.

Right. So yeah, if there was ever a time to sell stuff that is not perfect. It’s now because you you’re the, you’re the, you know, you’re the last year, the last, uh, [00:27:00] I was about to use a, uh, an analogy that probably would not be good, so I won’t do that,

Tony: but yeah, I think you definitely, uh, mitigate your risk, uh, minimize it.

Uh, so like you said, you know, slow down on doing the 25 rehabs that I’m doing. Absolutely. Uh, I’ve a few huge ones that I’m finishing up and I don’t plan. To take on too many more. That might change in like 10 minutes when I checked my phone.

Mike: You’re also, you’re also, yeah. Yeah. You got an addiction problem with real estate addiction, right?

Tony: Like the, the art of the deal. So it’s just like, I keep going and trying to get stuff, but, uh, uh, but yeah, I mean, just, just try to. Be very selective on what you’re closing on, I think is what, uh, what I’m trying to take away from the last couple of months of, of, Hey, how do we make 20, 21 better than 2020 was and, and, you know, come out of it, um, smarter, healthier, um, financially better, right?

Yeah. And then, so that I can [00:28:00] live to fight in 2022. Yeah,

Mike: well, you guys, and you know, one of the benefits we’re talking about, we have these conversations here and these types of conversations of like, what’s going on, where we add, how do I overcome this issue are like super prevalent inside of our investor fuel mastermind, which you guys are a part of.

Would you mind just taking a moment to kind of share a quick testimonial on your experience as

being a part of the vest refuel?

Tony: Sure. Um, well, as you know, uh, we were in Phoenix with you, you know what last month was that last month, Uh, February feels like. So we were in Phoenix with you, you know, uh, at the last, uh, fuel meetup.

And, um, it was actually, I got out of it way more than I thought I was going to get out of it. Um, but maybe because I went in, you know, I went in, I got there and I went in with, uh, without my guards up. Right. I went in and I was like, you know what? I can learn from everyone here. And, uh, I’m just going to go with it and have a good time and listen.

And seriously, through the first two days, I was like, Oh man, uh, I have to get up there and do a speech and I’m going to get annihilated, you know, and I know you, you tell me [00:29:00] to, uh, not be so hard on myself, but it’s really, the accountability is amazing, right. Because I’m able to then know that the words I spoke, someone’s gonna be like, Tony, didn’t you say you were going to not do crazy rehabs.

Right. And so, um, that level of. Of holding myself accountable has been really good over the last couple of months. Um, and then just makes me want to be better. And then the give back, uh, something that me and you talked about, you know, probably six months ago before I joined fuel was the give back. And, uh, it’s something I believe in to, to, to keep giving back and by giving I’m going to receive.

And so everyone there has been just incredible givers. And I think that that’s. That’s my favorite part is that everyone there there’s no ego. You say that there’s no ego in that room and it’s just been, it’s just been great to be able to be a part of people that are just want to give and, and live and be better.

Awesome. I [00:30:00] appreciate that. Yeah, we’ve got a good group and I think, uh, you

Mike: know, getting good, new, good people

in the group always helps because that culture just starts to kind of snowball forward. Um, more giving, more, getting more learning, everybody’s open and sharing, whatever they’ve got so glad you guys are a part of it.

And, uh, appreciate that words. Yeah.

Tony: I’m glad we’re a part of it too. Yeah. Hey for

Mike: you guys, um, you guys, you guys have,

uh, some content that you create, you have a show or do you refer to it as a show or you’ve got a YouTube channel. I don’t know what you want. All these things could be, we can call it a podcast.

You can call it a share or you call it a channel. Yeah,

Tony: it’s a, it’s a channel of mayhem. Um, but yeah, the Sicilian brothers.com and you can get to it and you can, you know, uh, watch our videos and talk to us, uh, comment, subscribe, like, um, yeah. And, and really reach out to us if, you know, if you, if you need anything, whether it’s yes, we are lenders.

Uh, yes, we can help people nationwide. So if he needs any, feel free to reach out to us. But, [00:31:00] uh, but yeah, especially if you want some ideas or, or. We, we like to have fun on it. We like to show our rehab and, and yeah.

Mike: Yeah. It’s

fun. I’ve obviously been doing these shows for seven and a half years now. Like I said, it was started with, you know, primarily the FlipNerd show, uh, which actually we’re turning into a channel now, the network of shares, uh, pretty soon here, but,

Mike: um, you know, it’s just


I just, I think the first, like five years I was in this business, I just had my head down and I was just kind of cranking. Um, and then as time went by, I was like, I just, I’m a social creature. So I’m, I love to talk to people and share ideas and stuff like that. And that’s obviously eventually turned into the mastermind is like a more formal process for getting together and sharing ideas.

But I think creating content, uh, especially the interview style where you talk to other people is a ton of fun. So, so, Hey, just to clarify, so it’s the Sicilian brothers.com. Is that how he folks get there? Okay, cool. Well, I don’t think that on the show notes there for anybody that’s, uh, driving down the interstate right now and couldn’t write that down.

But, um, well guys, so, [00:32:00] so great to see ya. Uh, glad to talk, even though we’re right in the same market, we shouldn’t be able to talk more frequently. That’s kind of how it goes. We’re back

Tony: open to a hundred percent. We can go out and have a have lunch sometime now. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. That’s right. Uh, that wouldn’t have stopped it.

That wouldn’t have stopped us before either. But, uh, anyway,

Mike: everybody, thanks. Hopefully you got

some value here. I think the key in this, the message in this show is just. You know, don’t put your head in the sand, but B be safe, you know, um, live to fight another day, I guess, as we talked about is real estate investing can change your life can have a amazing impact on your life, but you don’t want to get knocked out of the game prematurely.

So I think the whole point is just stay safe, make sure you’re making good decisions. Don’t get caught up in the hype of the market’s going to keep going up forever. I know the last downturn, there were people that were like

Mike: buying houses. They were going to rehab

them with hard money and they’re just sitting on them because.

The house, the value of the house is going on faster than the cost of the hard money. It’s like, that’s, that’s not a, that’s not a good strategy. So. Um, just get in and out of these things

Tony: and stay safe. Elegance. That’s not business savvy. That’s just luck.

[00:33:00] That’s luck. Yeah. And everybody runs out of luck.

Eventually some of that luck is gonna run out. So, but everybody, thanks for joining us on the show today. I hope you got some good value. If you haven’t yet checked out the investor fuel mastermind. Our next event is actually coming up here real fast. So go to the investor, go to investor fuel.com and you can schedule a call with us to learn a little bit more.

If it’s a fit for you. Otherwise we’ll see you on the next show.

Tony: Take care. Thanks. Bye.

Are you an active

Mike: real estate investor? If so, and you want to latch onto the power of surrounding yourself with over a hundred of the nation’s leading real estate investors, all committed to building stronger businesses and living richer fuller lives. You should jump on a call with us to learn more about Investor Fuel, simply visit investorfuel.com to get started.