Why This Real Estate Investor Stopped Chasing Doors and Started Buying Resorts

Zack Metcalf (00:00)
The numbers financially have to make sense at all times. We’re not going to buy a property that doesn’t underwrite with the correct IRR, cash on cash, or the multipliers. What I’m talking about numbers is we don’t care about the numbers of how many LOIs, letters of intents we’re gonna put, how offers we’re gonna put out there. Some of the people in my network, they’re putting like 10 LOIs out a week. We don’t operate that way. So if we dive into a property, we will underwrite that property until the cows come home to make sure that it actually financially makes sense.

Cody Crabb (01:57)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros Podcast by Investor Fuel. I’m your host, Cody Crabb, and today I’ve got Zack Metcalf with me. Zack’s built a multi-million dollar real estate portfolio focused on experience-driven hospitality from Joshua Tree to the Catskills. Zack, thanks so much for being here. How’s it going?

Zack Metcalf (02:14)
Going well, Cody. Thanks for having me. Super fired up to be here.

Cody Crabb (02:16)
we’re really excited to have you. so before we dive in with your story and everything, I’d love it if you could give us a quick definition of experience-driven hospitality. Because in my mind, when I hear that, what I think is like I stay at an Airbnb and then like the host teaches me how to cook dinner in their native, what I mean? Like in my mind, that’s what it is. So I would love it if you would either strongly correct me or tell me that I’m right.

Zack Metcalf (02:41)
Yeah, no, so first off, I think that can be an experience, right? I think when I say when we say experiential hospitality, it’s really like you want to have an experience at wherever you’re going, right? Because historically there’s been before like the Airbnb boom, right? There was just primarily hotels. You’d go to a hotel, you check in the Hilton, you check into whatever one it was, and you would go there and you’d leave. And there wasn’t like this connection to the actual property. There wasn’t a lot of amenities, there wasn’t the wellness component, right?

And then over the years, like there’s, boutique hotels have kind of come out of the mix. And then now like micro-resorts and obviously Airbnbs. And so, for me, it’s like it’s creating an experience somewhere where people don’t want to leave. They want to bring their families, they want to bring their friends, they want to create memories, they want to come back to that place because that’s like the INTRVL in life that they actually needed. And so yeah, I think it’s creating an experience for someone to actually like stay, enjoy, meet other people and create memories.

Cody Crabb (03:31)
And I think it’s one of those things where I think if you haven’t been involved in it kind of is confusing at first. Like to me, when I have heard of this before, I kind of didn’t really get the concept of like meeting people on vacation. Like why would you do like I never really understood that. this is a thing that is not uncommon, especially these days, to kind of do a destination to

in with that intention. I mean there’s a lot of things you can do with it. But so all right, this is you mentioned for years your goal was one property a year. We talked a little bit about this before we started. your goal is basically one property a year and now you’ve kind of flipped that and changed your focus. Tell us a little bit about that while also kind of giving us a little bit of a rundown of who is Zack.

Zack Metcalf (04:14)
Yeah, yeah. so yeah, a little bit of background on myself is my name is Zack Metcalf. I’m 36 years old, based here in some Huntington Beach, California. I have a two-year-old, I’m a father. I have a beautiful wife named Bex. and I actually just left a ten-year career in the pharmaceutical industry where I did sales. And about so back in 2018, I bought my first condo. And what I didn’t realize back then was that I was doing this thing called house hacking. Didn’t even know what that was back then, but

I bought a condo, it was a four-bedroom, four-bath. I lived in the master, I rented out the rest of the rooms. And my mortgage that was 3,600 bucks a month actually was only 300 bucks for me. So I was like, wow, this is cool. I’m gonna save all that cash and invest in a second one. So the second property was in Joshua Tree, which is our first Airbnb. That was now it was with my now wife. and from then I was like, I want to buy a property every single year. And by the time I had two by the time I was 30, like, by the time I’m 50, I’m gonna have, 20 properties and we’re just gonna be raking in the cash. And

As time has evolved, we have done that up until this last year, where we bought a property every single year. But what I’ve realized is that, I’ve dabbled in single-family residential. I’ve dabbled in small multifamily. I’ve dabbled in midterm rentals. I’ve dabbled in short-term rentals. And I’m now dabbling in a space that is focusing on like hotels and micro-resorts. Because what I’ve realized, Cody, is that I don’t really want to be a full-time landlord. I also don’t want to just put up a bunch of properties under a property management company, but I’d rather focus on larger projects with

Team members that maybe their strengths are my weaknesses and my strengths are where their weaknesses. And so what we’re doing now is well, me and my wife, we had launched a micro-resort in Joshua Tree called INTRVL, I-N-T-R-V-L. it’s a three-home compound that sleeps 20. It’s got a bocce ball court, pickleball court, two cold plunge, sauna, pool jacuzzi. The list kind of goes on, right? 30-foot movie theater. And so that was kind of like the first itch of like, wow, this is a lot bigger project, right? And then evolving into New York now, where I’m actually flying out tonight.

to close a property that I’ve been working on with a few partners, but a $5.1 million project called Stone Tavern Farm. So I’m taking a red-eye, we’re flying in, we’re turning a 240-acre historic farm from 1803 into an event venue, a micro-resort, and a wellness center. And so going back to that, the previous question about like why people want to go to these places is that people crave community, right? They crave experiences with their family. They want to create memories. And then so that’s really what we’re doing.

Now it’s primarily in Joshua Tree and also in New York, where we want people to come together. We want them to be changed. We want them to grow. whether you’re, having a wedding or whether you’re celebrating a birthday, we just we brought 25 of my of our best friends out to Joshua Tree for my wife’s 40th at our own property. And I’m like, this is why we’re doing it. This is why we’re doing it. it’s something that you can tangibly feel and tangibly experience. And everyone’s face was just like ear to ear. I’m like, I just this is a proud moment because all the hard work is paid off for people to actually enjoy it, experience it and create memory. So

That’s a little bit about me and why I’m doing what I’m doing.

Cody Crabb (07:46)
Well, mean it makes sense. if experiences are important to you, I mean, holy cow, what better than an event? I mean, think of the times you get an event venue or you get, everyone together like that. The it’s the most important times of your whole life. So it makes total sense that you’d wanna that you’d wanna be part of that. I also mentioned

I called it the Adam Sandler model before we before we started recording. Because you mentioned you mentioned if I don’t really want to go visit my random storage unit in the middle of nowhere, but I wouldn’t mind at all going to visit my resort, my hotel in the tropical part of the country. so I’d love to hear a little more about that because it sounds like to me you are designing your career around your life and not the other way around.

it’s tempting to do it the other way and everyone teaches us to do it the other way. but tell us a little bit about how you made that decision.

Zack Metcalf (08:35)
Yeah, I mean, I think I just there was an aha moment that I had about two years ago where I just wanted to keep on buying these houses to say I had a number of doors. And then I just realized like that actually isn’t really important to me. What’s important is to actually, Cody, it happened right after this. So not this last Joshua Tree one, but the last property that we bought, we spent a quarter million dollars on this fourplex in Cheyenne, Wyoming. We bought it for like eight seventy and we put a quarter million into it and it had cash for like twelve hundred bucks a month.

I don’t necessarily want to go back to Cheyenne. It’s a cool spot, but we tried it for a tax strategy that didn’t end up working out. And although now it cash ca cash flows like 2500 bucks, that was the aha moment to realize like I don’t want to just buy assets. I want to buy places that I can actually go and visit. I want to buy places that I could teach my son Dax, who’s two, like how daddy and mommy do this, how to change fans and how to fix doors and things like that. And so that was the aha moment of like, okay, I could put my money and my energy and my time into

anything, right? I can put it into storage, I can put it into crypto, I can put it into small business. But I don’t actually want to visit any of those things. I want that like that like tangible feeling of actually going to spend time. And so we’ve put all of our focus on the experiential hospitality because there’s also a world where there’s a kind of a blank canvas of what kind of experience you can create and what you want to create. So it’s like, okay, if that’s

my creative can get going and my wife can design it and I can bring the people in. Like what better life than to build places that I can actually go visit and bring my friends and family?

Cody Crabb (10:02)
Yeah. And I think it’s a great point that like if you’re passionate about something, nothing will ever beat the boost that will give you. if you are doing a job to do a job, and anybody can do that. Like that’s people do it all the time. everyone’s parents probably did that. but I think when you really dig into something that you are excited about and that

isn’t just a money-making venture. It’s a something that you can really get behind and believe in. that changes things and it changes the decisions you make and it changes how you look at it. so when you made that shift, what changed in how you actually started looking at deals? I mean, what does a property now have to have to have for the for you to be like, I’m actually looking at this seriously instead of just like, that’s a that’s kind of a cool property. Like you’re actually seriously looking at it.

Zack Metcalf (10:47)
Yeah. there’s different types of investors that do this. And I’m not saying my way is the right way, but there’s a lot of people within my network that I highly respect where their thing is numbers. It’s like, let’s put as many LOIs out, let’s start the conversations, let’s start the bids, let’s start the underwriting. Me and my partners are very selective on where we dive in because our time is valuable, right? But there has to be a specific vision and a specific gut feeling of like, this is what we can create. And our buy box now.

is now buying a essentially kind of a small hotel or a residential plot of land with a few properties on it that has a bunch of land but has mixed zoning. Because with mixed zoning, you can add as many units as you want, obviously if it’s to code. So for this property in New York, like we have 240 acres, a hundred acres of which are buildable and it’s a mixed zoning spot. So we found this kind of like this niche of a type of property where it’s not about numbers. Like

There’s like a few checkboxes of what we want, which is like the those things I mentioned, but like also do we want to actually spend time there? Are there amenities around there that we want to go and stay at? Like this property has four ski mountains within 45 minutes. I’m an avid snowboarder, right? So it’s like, why would I not want to do that? so we’ve kind of just created a buy box of things that are really important to us, but we’re very selective because we’ve gone down the path of we’re trying to buy this property out in Surf City, North Carolina.

before this Stone Tavern Farm project, we weren’t listening to our gut. We went there and we’re like, we just don’t feel that energy. We don’t feel that sense of connection to this property. And that I think is very, very important that a lot of investors, if that is important to you, need to listen to more.

Cody Crabb (12:14)
You said something interesting and I wanna kind of dive into this part. You said it’s not about the numbers and we’re talking about investing.

Zack Metcalf (12:22)
Yeah.

Cody Crabb (12:22)
this is my question. This is my question. Yeah, so like where’s the line? Where’s the line between fine this makes financial sense and trusting a vision that maybe doesn’t make a ton of sense on paper? Like where’s that line? How do you balance those?

Zack Metcalf (12:36)
So let me reiterate that. The numbers financially have to make sense at all times. We’re not going to buy a property that doesn’t underwrite with the correct IRR, cash on cash, or the multipliers. What I’m talking about numbers is we don’t care about the numbers of how many LOIs, letters of intents we’re gonna put, how offers we’re gonna put out there. Some of the people in my network, they’re putting like 10 LOIs out a week. We don’t operate that way. So if we dive into a property, we will underwrite that property until the cows come home to make sure that it actually financially makes sense.

So that was a difference of Numbers make sense financially, but I’m talking about numbers that we’re not as focused on, which is like volume of offers and LOIs out there.

Cody Crabb (13:09)
So what you’re saying is the actual any numbers with a dollar sign in front of them are actually very important. Any other numbers that you’re kind of like, you want them to be big for some reason. Like you said, the you’re wanting to increase number numbers of doors and wanting to increase, yeah. Yeah. I

Zack Metcalf (13:26)
Important

to me. Yeah. Yeah. because also one point that I think is really important is that with these with these larger deals, like with the New York deal, we are raising capital, raising about, one and a half to two million dollars. you’re taking investor capital. And so that there’s you don’t want to lose any of that. So your numbers have to be dialed. and you have to be a good fiduciary of all your investors. And so

that’s what I’m saying. Like you have to underwrite to the cows come home. You have to make sure that you have done so much homework on that project that you feel so confident.

And not just losing your money if it goes south, but also invest your money because the goal is to obviously multiply that, three to five X.

Cody Crabb (13:58)
Mm-hmm. So let’s talk about the other huge change in your life. I mean, you just mentioned you you had a you spent 10 years in a career and you just kind of left that career like right now, like just now. what made you finally go like I’m going all in? Because it sounds like you kind of maybe could have done that before now, based on what you’ve been telling me.

Zack Metcalf (14:20)
Yeah, I so I the I worked in the pharmaceutical industry for about 10 years. I was a top sales rep for the entire time. And I was always I was pretty conflicted working in pharma, Cody, if I’m being honest. Like I’m such a health, a health nut. Like my chronological age is 36, my biological age is 24. So like I’m very focused on longevity, health. So I’m working in this industry that is so like prescription drug based, right? Like let’s just pump pills out into the world.

And I’m not saying all pharma is bad, but I’m saying like I was just very conflicted of, I was working on clinical trials around like diabetes. I’m like, no one’s actually talking about the root on why these people got here. It’s just like, hey, let’s just inject it with the GLP. So I was very conflicted. And so two years, two years before I left, I was like, I don’t think this is right for me as often anymore. But we was in a very, very interesting scenario because I was still investing in real estate on the side, but it didn’t make sense from the commissions I was bringing in to like just leave, right? It just didn’t make sense.

I’m gonna stay here. I’m gonna keep on, you building what I’m building, but I’m gonna build on the side it and make sure that whenever this ship does sail, that I have the fuel on my real estate side to like go all in. And I’ll tell you, Cody, like I it was on February twelfth at nine fifteen in the morning. I got this random invite from my direct boss, who is a newer boss of mine because we had gotten acquired. And I was like, I think this is the day that I’m gonna let go because I thought our entire department was gonna let go. Just you could read things on the wall, right?

And man, that morning it was 9 15 and I hopped on a very surface-level conversation. And then it like it stopped for a second. And it’s like, Zack, unfortunately, we’re letting you, we’re letting you go today. and bro, I was so fired up. Like I it was probably the easiest let go ever because I got a four-month severance to go chase my dreams. And I knew that was coming because I’d been there for so long. You’re done.

Cody Crabb (16:42)
They’re like, I’m so sorry, we’re gonna have to let you go and you’re like

Zack Metcalf (16:45)
I’m like Yeah, I’m pretty mad. what I mean?

Cody Crabb (16:47)
You’re

never gonna guess what just happened. Yeah. I know. That’s so funny. Yeah.

Zack Metcalf (16:51)
It

was and the crazy part about this, Cody, is that like and I had given ten years of my life to this company, right? I had closed over a hundred million dollars in contracts. I made a big impact in that company. And I had 30 minutes to leave. They shut off all my stuff and I was like a fart in the wind. And I was like, wow, after 10 years, and this is how and I’m not mad at them. There’s no resentment at all, right? But it’s like it just shows you that you have to create your own destiny because

No matter how long you’re at a certain company, like you can get let go like that. And they don’t even think twice about it. Right. And so I’m just so grateful that it all happened the way that it happened because I was going to quit two years before that with no severance. I would have left probably, three to four hundred thousand dollars on the line. And I stayed and thank God I stayed because I bought a few more properties. We launched the Joshua property. We bought the fourplex. Now we’re equipped to buy this New York project. And so it was it was a blessing in disguise. And this is the craziest part, Cody. So I get let go at nine fifteen in the morning.

Call my wife. I’m like, babe, the day has come. Like super fired up, right? She’s like, we’re gonna celebrate tonight. The next day, my wife had a final round interview for her dream job. And she hadn’t worked for two years because we had a kid. And but she was feeling called back to go, to go, to go and start a career again. And bro, within 31 hours, 31 hours, I get let go with a $60,000 severance. She gets her dream job within 31 hours. So we went out that night. Yeah, it was like

I’m like all we had manifested, we had prayed about this, we had envisioned this happening and it all happened within literally one day. So that night we went out for Valentine’s Day and people are like, So what are you guys celebrating? And Bex is like, Well, I got my dream job. we got a severance and I got let go and we’re celebrating our love. And people were like kind of confused, like, what you got let go and you’re celebrating? Like, yep.

Cody Crabb (18:35)
So much stuff. Yeah. No, I think that I love that story because I actually can relate to that. I actually left some crappy job after it was like I was trying to work freelance as a podcast editor and have my own business and stuff. Same exact thing happened to me, actually. It’s funny that you say that because it was like I kind of was waiting for the right time and it just I couldn’t quite make pull the trigger and then they’re like, I’m so sorry, we’re actually gonna have to and I was like, All right, see you later. Like yeah, it’s

takes really is just kind of a push, a little nudge, and then you’re like, all right, I’m ready for this already.

Zack Metcalf (19:07)
Yeah. And I think there’s a big component of just like surrendering and not trying to control the situation. Like if I would have tried to control, I would have left a huge chunk of change on the line. But just being patient and surrendering and like realizing that the time is going to be aligned at some point. And it literally could not have been more aligned to a T. It was crazy. Yeah. So we don’t have to worry about insurance. My wife is still crushing hers. I get to flock my wings as a full-time real estate developer. And so it’s like, let’s go. what better life?

Cody Crabb (19:32)
So great. yeah, I’m literally just like super happy. I don’t even know what to say. I’m just like, yeah, go you. Like awesome. that’s so cool. so and this was something that you mentioned as well. This is important to you. is that this works the whole picture works for you. how do you kind of balance the two sides of you when I said what do you do? You said well I’m a dad.

The very first thing you say, I’m a dad. I love that. I’m a dad as well. And I can really relate to that feeling of like everything comes back to that. Like no matter what else I do, like that’s what it comes back to. How do you kind of balance these feelings? Because it sounds like, if that’s your priority, how do you make those coexist when so much of real estate and just kind of working and careers in general does not really lend itself super well to that?

Zack Metcalf (20:16)
Yeah, man. yeah, it’s a great question. I have

Cody Crabb (20:18)
Might not even be for the podcast. I might just be actually asking you for

Zack Metcalf (20:22)
Dude,

no, I mean you can put this in the podcast because this is the type of work that I’m actually really, really passionate about as well. Because I got chills right now just with that question. Because man, two years before my son was born, I had just been I was so focused on the doors, the wealth, the what I call the what, right? and what I realized in this entire journey is that the what actually isn’t important, isn’t as important to me. Like I don’t, I don’t need to have so many doors and all this, nine figures, whatever it is, because my why is actually my most important.

thing. And that has to, that success has to support my why. And when I talk about why, I mean my health as number one, my relationships, my identity, my purpose. And so if I align my what and my why, then we’re all dialed. Right. But if I’m so focused on the what and it’s impeding on me showing up as the best father, the best husband, the best Zack for my family, my network, then like that actually doesn’t align with me. Right. And so I think it’s and actually

Ironically, I’m starting a men’s transformation health accelerator focusing on this because I feel like especially us men in the entrepreneur space, we’re so focused on this thing called what, but yet we don’t actually ask ourselves why we’re doing it. And we get caught in this success trap. Right. and I got caught in that. And so I’m like, wait, actually, I can help a lot of people here to align both of them. Like you can be a successful entrepreneur and a successful real estate investor or successful W-2er. but just make sure that why you’re doing it, right? Because

I think our parents’ generation, it was like work, work, work, work, work. And in my blood, I know I can be a workaholic. But if I’m not showing up for my son for these years that he’s really, really young and I’m not showing up as the best husband, then like none of that’s actually it actually matters, right? Like I don’t I don’t need to have all the money in the world if I don’t have my why. Right. And so I think it’s really important to be aware of it and be conscious about the success that you have in your life and that it’s not impeding on your life, but it’s actually adding to it and giving it fuel.

Cody Crabb (22:06)
Wow. so I’m gonna I’m gonna tack one other question onto this, which is

Zack Metcalf (22:09)
Ask away, brother.

Cody Crabb (22:10)
when the what is costing you the why?

Zack Metcalf (22:15)
Mm. Asking your wife.

Cody Crabb (22:19)
Good point.

Zack Metcalf (22:20)
asking your children. Yeah. Asking yourself, right? Like how many hours a week are you working? Right. Are you working 15-hour days and you don’t have any time with your kid? You see them for 30 minutes in the morning. You see them 30 minutes before you put them put them to bed. how often are you having, intimate and affectionate moments with your partner? Right. Like those are like when’s the last time you went on a date night? there’s questions that I don’t think a lot of the times we ask ourselves because we’re afraid of the answer we’re willing to give, right?

And so I think you have to start asking yourself the challenging questions to get the challenging answers. And what people ask me all the time, like, how do I know? It’s like, ask your spouse. Do they feel filled up? Do they feel, do they feel cared about? Do they feel loved? if you were to write out the type of husband that you want to be, are you achieving that? because I think what we do, especially as us men, is that we say, I’m doing this for my family. But in the meantime, you’re actually not spending time with a family that you’re doing it for. That doesn’t make any sense.

Right. Yeah. So and it’s not the same that’s wrong.

Cody Crabb (23:13)
No, yeah, and I think sometimes it’s funny too because I think sometimes people will do that without even getting the what accomplished.

Zack Metcalf (23:23)
Or like sub punches too, yeah.

Cody Crabb (23:25)
So I mean like they’ll work at a job that they that is not really working for them, that is not making them the life that they want, and they’re working way too hard at it and not getting the why either. So it sometimes isn’t even a trade-off. Yes.

Zack Metcalf (23:38)
That

that’s a really good point.

Cody Crabb (23:39)
Yeah, and I think just about everybody’s been guilty of that at some point. yeah, and I think this is such a good point because I think when you’ve got those dialed like you said, it’s the alignment that matters. if you’ve got the why and you’ve got the what and they can work together, if they can co cohabitate, then that’s all you need really.

Zack Metcalf (23:57)
Totally. And I think what we also have to realize, Cody, is that it’s not always going to be completely balanced. There’s going to be seasons of life where maybe you’re not focusing as much on your health, or maybe you’re not focusing much on your relationship, or maybe your business isn’t thriving as much as you would like to. Right. But I think it’s the awareness piece of like readjusting and re-optimizing what’s actually important to you. Like are you doing the work on yourself from an identity perspective? Stick in a backseat for a while. So

We just have to ask ourselves and in my world it’s like the five pillars that I mentioned, which is your wealth, your health, your identity, your purpose,

so it’s like, are you asking yourselves those right questions? is the question that you have to ask yourself, which is challenging because we don’t want to look at that stuff sometimes.

Cody Crabb (24:34)
Yeah, wow. So for somebody that’s listening who’s earlier in the journey than you are, or that you were really, maybe they know they want real estate to be part of their life. Maybe they know they’re kind of building something on the side, but they’re stuck in the analysis paralysis. They’re trying to learn everything that they can first. What would be the first move you would tell them to make?

Zack Metcalf (24:53)
obviously there’s a lot of questions that I would ask them before them, like, what are they doing? What’s their bandwidth, how much money they have to invest. But like I think the number one thing that I would do is start investing in yourself. because starting in getting into the right room, starting to get another whole knowledge base of something that you’ve never learned about before and learning from people that have been where you want to be, that’s power in that. So I would say that the number one thing is to invest in yourself because you don’t know what you don’t know until you actually know it.

So and one little thought on that as well. I started investing myself about two years ago. And I invested it’s about $20,000 into myself two years ago when this like new journey of entrepreneurship came through. Invested in 20 grand. And that one year I pulled in one 120 from that. So I 6X my investment in myself.

I mean anyone would take that, right? But now I now like in that I also changed my lens. So like we launched a Joshua project. I’m working on this New York project. Like

That lens shift was completely changed because of me investing in myself and realizing that all these amazing projects, these big swings that people are taking are actually not that complex. I’m fully capable of doing that, but I don’t know until I know.

Cody Crabb (25:57)
Love that. Well, this is this has been really great. I feel like everybody’s gotten a lot from this. And if no one has, then at least I have, because this has been really good for me. so thank you so much for giving us some time today. I really appreciate it. Yeah, man. so if people want to find out more about what you do, about they want to get involved, who should be reaching out to you and where can they find you?

Zack Metcalf (26:16)
Yeah, I would say I anyone can reach out to me. I’m happy to chat about, real estate, about dad life, about optimizing your life with your what and your why. you can find me on Instagram at Zack, Z-A-C-K, Metcalf, M as in Mary, E-T-C-A-L-F, and that’s underscore. Or you can also follow our journey in Joshua Tree at stayINTRVL, I-N-T-R-V-L. and I could provide my email and stuff like that if anyone wants to connect directly.

Cody Crabb (26:37)
But And remind me of the mug thing as well. You

Zack Metcalf (26:41)
And also LNGLIV. So this is

Cody Crabb (26:45)
Just remember that Zack hates vowels and you’ll be a lot more

Zack Metcalf (26:48)
No,

dude, I realize it. I used to own a Hawaiian shirt company that was called MNKY and it was M-N-K-Y. it’s a thing. Like so funny. Yeah. Wow.

Cody Crabb (26:57)
The money you’re saving printing those vowels. Yeah, no. I know, right? that’s funny. Yeah, no, that’s legitimately that will help me remember it. That’s so that’s actually pretty funny. cool. Well, again, thank you so much. This has been great. and audience, thanks so much for giving us some of your time too. If you liked this episode, don’t miss the next one. Zack, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much.