Real Estate Development Project Management: One Platform for Budgets, Bills, Documents & More

Charlie Hilbert (00:00)
When I get a draw request from a lender, I have to pay $500 a thousand dollars for an inspector to come to my property to prove that something is done. Literally just for him to come and say that this is done. So now in the ANKR phone mobile app, which already does exist, so this is very much becoming a reality sooner than you guys think. It’s that a live stamped notif live stamp camera lock in your phone AI proof that basically auto-populates and sends it to the draw requests.

Cody Crabb (02:00)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast by Investor Fuel. I’m your host, Cody Crabb, and today I’ve got Charlie Hilbert with me. Charlie is the founder of ANKR, where he’s building an all-in-one platform for real estate developers to manage their projects. Charlie, welcome to the show. Appreciate you coming on today.

Charlie Hilbert (02:16)
Looking forward to joining. Thanks for having me.

Cody Crabb (02:19)
Yeah, glad to have you. So I would love to hear a little bit about your story. You told me that the idea for ANKR came because of someone you know had a pain point, and they kind of expressed that to you. I’d love to hear that story of how that’s—

Charlie Hilbert (02:38)
So actually it started even before that. It was a bunch of five guys, all my close friends, every night for months straight. We were trying to come up with an idea, a startup, trying to change an industry and really learn an industry and master it and find a problem and create that. Now someone came to me and I spoke—I was talking to my dad about it, and my dad said that—

I had this idea, there I saw this pain point. There was a fragmented system and I think there should be a better way. And I really think that this is what you need to learn and you could change the market with it. And my dad told me that. I knew what I had to do and then I started meeting with as many people as I could, learning the market as best as I can and really trying to change an industry.

Cody Crabb (03:20)
So just give me an idea for people that haven’t heard of ANKR. Tell me kind of what it does, what it’s for, who should be interested in ANKR from where it is right now.

Charlie Hilbert (03:32)
So ANKR is meant for developers, and which type of niche in developers—we’re targeting properties from one to twenty million dollars, whether that’s spec development, multifamily, whatever type it is, we are creating one home base, which we’re gonna call, which is your profile, which is every single thing that you need, whether that’s a budget, bills, documents, folders, everything is organized in the right place and it’s all aligned working with each other, where it’s you write in a number here, it goes everything, everywhere else it needs to go.

So it’s not that manual updating everywhere in all different places. It’s creating that real home base that is organized and simple.

Cody Crabb (04:10)
So what does a messy version look like today? Like what are you trying to replace that is the bad version as it were? Not that it’s bad, but like the version that’s couldn’t—it’s not optimized.

Charlie Hilbert (04:24)
I would say it’s different for a lot of people I’ve heard, whether it’s spreadsheets, whether that’s Google folders, whether you’re on multiple different softwares, people are on different places. They’re paying bills on Bills.com, they’re on Monday.com for project management. They’re on a bunch of stuff. So we’re taking those five, six, seven, eight different applications that you’re on and that you’re writing in information and saying, why are they not bouncing off each other and why are they not working together? And that’s where we come from.

Cody Crabb (04:53)
Yeah, so something you told me before we started was you are building this around your first users. I thought this was a great idea. Can you kind of give us a little bit of background on your thoughts behind this strategy and why you decided to do it this way?

Charlie Hilbert (05:08)
So we’re really just looking to build the perfect product. We’re looking to build a product that works for this industry, that is built by people in this industry. And we realize when you’re a startup, you’re fresh, you’re especially young, that has its pain points and has its positives. But also it’s you need to get guys adapted to your way and it needs to work. So we’re like, you know what? We’re gonna take 25 people, find whether it’s people flipping

raw land even to people doing renovations to fix and flips to developments, all different types of people doing different types of projects and telling them, how can I create you one working space that is good? And then they join our software, they see what works. Obviously it has the basic layouts that they need to start and it is working, but the point is that what can I add on it and how can I improve?

Cody Crabb (06:47)
So another thing that kind of calls out to me is you said, you know, you’re on the young side. You said you are—was it you’re twenty years old? Yeah.

Charlie Hilbert (06:57)
I’m twenty years old.

Cody Crabb (06:58)
Yeah, that’s first of all, that’s pretty wild as it is. But I’d love to hear—so one thing that I appreciate is when people that are on the young side aren’t defensive about it, like I’ll talk to people that are on the young side that are like, “Hey, no, it’s not just because of my age,” you know what I mean?

But I love it when I talk to people like that that acknowledge that is a potential weakness and you’ve done things to kind of compensate for that. So one thing you told me is your dad is very experienced in this and that he’s become your kind of go-to subject matter expert to make sure that things are like, you know, the way that they should be for what you’re trying to build.

Charlie Hilbert (07:39)
Yes. So the system was originally built around him because we had to find our developers again, find those core members to adapt around him. So my dad was my first adapter. So we built the system around how he operated. But then I’m like, there’s a lot of people and everyone has their own niches, the way they like things. So I wanna bring more people in different types of niches and then keep building around how they keep operating.

Cody Crabb (08:04)
Yeah, and my main point is just that it’s a good demonstration of like—just because something is, not to say this is a weakness, but you know what I mean? Like because you’re on the young side, you don’t have the twenty years of experience that some of these founders do. But I love that you’ve kind of gone, “So therefore I need to figure something out. I need to do something about it.” And so I think that’s a great way to kind of get into the mindset of the people that are doing this.

So another question I’d have for you is, let me say I am looking to change things or I’m not looking to change things up, rather. I feel like my system is okay. It works, it’s fine. And let me say I’m like one of those, you know, we’ve all heard these people, “I don’t like technology, you know, I don’t like anything too complicated. I have my system that I’ve gotten comfortable with.” What would you say to those people to kind of convince them to take a second look at this?

Charlie Hilbert (09:03)
So those people are actually our most focused-on type of people. The type of people that are saying, “I’m not into all this technical AI, all this too fancy this and this. I like my things simple. I like having my own group chat, my own folder, everything all in one place, whether it’s the best way, probably not, but it works for me and that’s okay.” And now I come in and I say, one, I’ll make your system for you if you want. If you want me to set up your whole profile, I’ll

be more than happy to set it up for you. But two, why would you want to put things into different types of spots? Or why would you not want things working off each other? And then I bring up a new feature, which is actually coming into ANKR now. Everyone now I’m talking to is saying, so now after you finish development, when let’s say a change order comes in or an update or a budget conflict or any set of change, how does that go? They go,

I have to log it on my computer at the end of the night, spend about 30, 40 minutes on my computer, and that’s a pain point. And also people say that as a pain point in our software. Why would I want to join a software when it’s a ton of manual entry? Okay, great. So now I come in and I say, you know what? There has to be a better way. Why can you not on your property go on your phone and say, “What’s due this week? What’s this change?” or add this, and then it sends you a review and then you press submit, whether that’s asking a question on what is in your property or it’s actually

changing something up in your property.

Cody Crabb (10:32)
Yeah, I always kind of find it a little funny when I talk to people that are like, “I don’t want things complex,” and they have this only-makes-sense-to-them type system that’s like, “How on earth is this not complex?” But what I think people mean when they say that is they don’t want to learn a new thing. They don’t want to go in and learn the new thing. But ninety-nine percent of the time, it’s way simpler than whatever—like I use the example of like helping my mom set up her new smart TV, right?

She does not like technology. She’s fully against it. But my point is, or I could set this up for you once, you learn it once, and then all your apps are right there on your screen. So I think you bring up a really good point, which is sometimes the learning curve is the only obstacle, really, and it does all the same stuff.

But you just have to learn it.

Charlie Hilbert (12:07)
Exactly. And even look at the iPhone, for example. Someone has the iPhone 6 versus the iPhone 10 versus what it is even now. Every single generation it improves and gets better. People don’t think twice when they’re like, “Let me go from the password to the face cam.” They didn’t think twice because eventually they learned and they adapted and then they realized that this fix was something better. And now also people with ANKR, they’re not even just seeing a working product what it is today. They see the vision in us and they see the vision in the company because they see that like,

wow, this actually is a pain point and it could be better. And there should be a system for this. And then when you actually tell me what you want and when you have me organize it around you, it makes that—and it makes it so much better.

Cody Crabb (12:49)
Whenever I talk to people that are in software, and they talk about the features that they have and stuff, there’s usually a couple of features that they’re particularly like, “And you’re gonna love this. Like, you know how this is like such a huge problem?” Can you give me an example of like a couple of those that would be like, “If you hate X, Y, and Z,” you know what I mean? That kind of thing, that’s gonna blow people’s minds.

Charlie Hilbert (13:14)
I think one is that iPhone feature which is coming, Text ANKR. I think everyone I’ve told so far has been wowed from it. Something nice is document packages. In a property, you have all associated documents and it’s all nice folders, subfolders, however you want it to be. Now you’re able to select, let’s call it four documents, and you create that package. And it creates a URL where you’re able to easily send it to anyone easily

with a password on it, and you could say it expires in ninety days, thirty days, eight days, however long, with however many views. And that’s just such a basic feature because you could just send someone a document. People say a pain point is sending stuff on Gmail, sending stuff on messages. That for some people feels uncomfortable because that’s real personal information that can be easily traced. And when you add a password on top of it, it makes it a lot nicer and they feel a little bit more secure. And that’s just one feature that

came to mind.

Cody Crabb (14:12)
Perfect example. I think this is the kind of stuff that I mean where people that push back against technology or against changing, oftentimes they kind of shoot themselves in the foot because they are missing out on some things that maybe they would have to buy a whole new subscription for or like a whole new software. This sounds like this can replace multiple things. Am I hearing that right? Like it sounds like maybe like a Dropbox alternative, DocuSign type stuff?

Charlie Hilbert (14:43)
And Bills.com, also paying bills. It’s what needs your attention, what needs to come out, and then how can this connect with each other? That’s our whole thing.

Cody Crabb (14:52)
Yeah, I find that great. So you know, I’ve kind of leaned into this anti-technology, devil’s advocate kind of thing, but just as one more question on that line: you said something before we started, which is most people aren’t waking up on a random Wednesday thinking, “I’m gonna replace my whole system.” What’s something that you’ve learned about getting somebody to change a workflow that they’re already comfortable with?

Charlie Hilbert (15:22)
Listen, this is a thing that’s a pain point in any startup, right? Because change I don’t think anyone likes to do in any sort of field, whatever it is.

Cody Crabb (15:30)
The first time you book an Airbnb or you take an Uber, you’re like, “I hope this is—you know, I hope I don’t get murdered or something.” Yeah.

Charlie Hilbert (16:18)
So it’s like when your grandma takes her first Uber. So different types of weird situations that are like, it’s a change, but it’s actually an upgrade. And what we were talking about in this was more on—sorry, I just lost my train of thought, but—

Cody Crabb (16:38)
No, you’re good. You’re good.

Charlie Hilbert (16:40)
So what was the question again?

Cody Crabb (16:44)
I said, you know how you said most people aren’t waking up on a random Wednesday wanting to change everything. So what have you learned about getting somebody to change a workflow they’re comfortable with?

Charlie Hilbert (16:53)
Yes, exactly. So it’s a pain point in every single startup and I think every founder knows this and sees this reality. And you’re sending out a million emails a day, DMs a day, commenting a day on multiple people’s pages that usually are leaving you on read. But then you get guys that give a little bit piece of effort and you really look into their content. We really try to only attract hot leads is what we call them. And we’re not

going after people that we know wouldn’t benefit the most after it. Those people will come that will say, “We could benefit off this and you have features that we need.” But we’re mainly targeting the guys in our specific niche which we want. And we love that aspect that we’ll just constantly follow up with them and constantly show that, “Hey, this change, I think you should check it out. I would love to hear feedback.” This is what I always do with everyone: “Honestly, can I just send you my pitch deck?

Let me hear your thoughts, and if the pitch deck sounds interesting, let’s get on a call. I don’t wanna sell you my software, I wanna hear what you think. And then how does this sound and how do you think that this could affect the industry?”

Cody Crabb (18:01)
I like that train of thought a lot because in your mind, it’s like I either get a customer or I find out why someone wouldn’t be a customer, so it’s like a win. Yeah.

Charlie Hilbert (18:09)
See how I think.

Cody Crabb (18:10)
That’s great. So let me flip this to the developing side, right? So what’s a mistake that you see some of these smaller developers making with project management that maybe could really hurt them in the long run, that maybe ANKR could help with?

Charlie Hilbert (18:28)
I think the biggest detail is small details. I think a lot of small details, again on that 45-minute after you finish your workday to come in and edit your project, I think there’s a lot of those small details that come in where people are like, “I’ll leave it till tomorrow,” or “I’ll get to it.” And those “I’ll get to it” moments turn into a lot of lost traction, whether that’s paying an invoice late and getting a couple late fees, when

in ANKR, you know what needs your attention, what’s coming, what’s due. All those types of little niche things people really enjoy and they see the need for it, really.

Cody Crabb (19:06)
Yeah, it adds up. It adds up. And I think that those details make the difference between just a regular project and a really quality, high-quality, working project. So I see what you mean there. So for someone doing their first or second development, now that you’ve kind of looked at—I would say you’re probably somewhat of an expert in just the management of a project now.

What would you tell someone to have organized early on before stuff starts getting complicated so that they can be successful?

Charlie Hilbert (19:39)
I appreciate that. I’m definitely not an expert yet, but what I would say:

When you go through ANKR, you start with every single field that you need. So you’re never starting from ground zero. It’s always a process on questions for what is next and what is coming or what’s due, meaning that when you click on “New Project” in ANKR, five options come up for whether it’s a renovation, a ground-up development, a multifamily, a raw land flip, or a custom project. And with custom projects, you’d be surprised—we have a lot of people who are interested in just a couple of our features and they can customize it to how they work.

And a good example of that is EV parking. That’s a random example of someone that has bills, he has documents, and he found the need for our website.

Cody Crabb (20:26)
Yeah, and it’s one of those things too where you wouldn’t necessarily—that’s not a first-line thought always, but it’s something that if you have the right—somebody asking you, or there me a field to fill in, I could see that being super helpful. So well, thank you very much for giving us all this today. This has been really—I think it’s been really helpful to kind of visualize this. And I think some people are getting real excited about maybe trying this out. So if somebody is hearing this and they’re like, “This is a perfect fit.

I’ve needed something like this,” where can they go to find out more and potentially get started on using it?

Charlie Hilbert (21:01)
Check out Founding ANKR on Instagram. That’s my personal page, which has access to it. You could check out ANKR Properties on Instagram, ANKR Properties on LinkedIn, Charlie Hilbert on LinkedIn. We’re constantly posting to reach this network and would love to speak to anyone. If anyone wants to talk, I’m always into a meeting and I’m always into learning. And I really appreciate you having me on.

Cody Crabb (21:24)
Yeah, totally. Well, one last question before I let you go: you mentioned that you kind of see just for the future of ANKR—we didn’t really get into that and I want to add a little tag here. So you mentioned you have some thoughts for the future. Just give me a sneak peek vision of like a few years down the road, what do you see this becoming?

Charlie Hilbert (21:47)
Okay, so let me give two thoughts on two features. I don’t want to give too much away. But one is really to create a home space for everyone and kind of create this massive network for everyone’s roles into ANKR, where everyone could have their own home base. And now to give a feature, which is just a nice “wow” feature: a big pain point I hear from everyone is,

“When I get a draw request from a lender, I have to pay $500 a thousand dollars for an inspector to come to my property to prove that something is done. Literally just for him to come and say that this is done.” So now in the ANKR phone mobile app, which already does exist—so this is very much becoming a reality sooner than you guys think—it’s that a live-stamped camera lock in your phone AI proof that basically auto-populates and sends it to the draw requests.

But what we’re building on that is, why would you not be able to upload your scan, your plans, and really make that live where every lender should accept it, that the camera auto-detects each necessary thing, and really building a super futuristic way of how inspections should work? Because now there is a fix and we’re coming with that, and there’s a lot, a lot, a lot of new features that we see coming, and this is just the start of a really big journey.

Cody Crabb (23:07)
Yeah, you’re still within your first year, so I mean, obviously you’ve got some big plans. I’m excited to see what this turns into. I’ll be following to see what this ends up becoming. Thanks again, Charlie, for hanging out with us today. And thank you, listeners, as well. If you like what you heard today, make sure you listen to the next episode, and we’ll catch you on the next one. Charlie, take care.