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Show Summary
In this conversation, Jeremy Wenger shares his extensive journey in the real estate and urban planning industry, detailing his background in the tree industry, mergers, and acquisitions, and how these experiences shaped his current role at Urban Planning Pros. He discusses the strengths and weaknesses of his company, the opportunities available in the evolving market, and the threats posed by manpower shortages and changing technologies. Jeremy emphasizes the importance of strategic planning for future generations and the need for effective communication and education in the trades.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Jeremy Wenger (00:00)
We’ll turn down jobs all the time. We’ll turn down jobs all the time just because of unrealistic expectations. And we don’t want to lead people astray. We don’t want people to be hopeful and then go to the bank and get laughed out of the office. That’s no fun for anybody. I mean, that’s embarrassing.So we try to be brutally honest in the beginning and then that way, hey, we’ve got a saying, we try to be as pessimistic as possible to have a budget for optimism.
Erika (01:56)
Hey everyone, welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m your host, Erika, and today I’m excited to be chatting with Jeremy Wenger. He’s been making serious moves with his company, Urban Planning Pros. Jeremy, I’m glad to have you here.Jeremy Wenger (02:12)
I’m glad to be here. How you doing?Erika (02:14)
I’m doing awesome. And I think our listeners are really going to be fascinated with how you’re helping investors when it comes to developing. So, you know, let’s dive on in. First, Jeremy, for our listeners, know, who aren’t familiar with your world, can you share how you got into the real estate world and then what inspired you to form Urban Planning Pros?Jeremy Wenger (02:41)
Yeah, man, she grew up working with my dad in the tree industry here in North Alabama. And after one thing, after another, over past,say 15 years or so, and being involved in different aspects of real estate, from helping other people make a lot of money to where now, it’s a matter of what I’ve seen. And there’s a lot of investors that mean well, but a lot of times they plan wrong and then they end up up the creek without the paddle.
That’s where that’s the essential mission behind urban planning pros is to help plan better. So that way you’ve got a good team that can handle what you’re looking to accomplish as an investor, but also to make sure that you know what you’re looking at through a sober lens and set up something that just fits because it’s not just one thing as far as an engineer to technically make sure the plans fit, but also to work with the investor to say, okay, will this pencil based on X, Y, Z, right?
And that’s where we’ve really carved out a niche for ourselves. We’re not just planning projects. Excuse me. But we’re not just planning projects to be able to help people get to a finish line, but also to help them actually make and secure their legacy. And we’re about as real as it gets. That’s why it’s all good. but it’s like, we look at like, can we go from concept to full construction or even then to entitlements or to being shovel ready? Because
Products are different. Everyone’s got their different focus. We are, I mean, I would say we are about as open canvas as it gets when it comes to projects. Our team has handled 1000 acre solar farms all the way down to an ADU in the backyard with the driveway redesign. I mean, it’s interesting because when it comes to our team being, ⁓ we have got over a hundred years experience in civil engineering, structural engineering, soil engineering, and making sure that we’ve got master, as far as even the master land planning.
to lay out these large projects and stage them out correctly and make sure that there’s a good balance between who can handle the jobs as far as management goes to be able to actually handle the throughput and make sure that you’ve got what you need as far as an actual outcome. Because all that word salad means that you have a good concept, have paint the vision and make it plain, and then that way you’ve got the right people to carry out the parts of the plan. Because…
Half the time engineers are very technically inclined, but they don’t understand asset classes and business models. And that’s kind of what makes us really different when it comes down to being able to say, okay, you want to do multifamily. Okay, cool. Let’s talk about that. But then also let’s look at other options based on what the wetlands, floodway, flood zone, two very different things, floodway and flood zone, and being able to identify what can be built and what could be built and what should be built, three very different things because…
A lot of people go to contract and I’ve painfully watched this happen ⁓ where people go to contract and then try to figure it out.
why and I just don’t I for me that’s a lot of stress too like why would you rush to something to lock yourself up into something and then try to figure your way out know your way through before you actually go into putting the contract ⁓ putting the contract through because I think that for us when it comes to urban planning pros when it comes down to yet we’re nationwide in our operations
We can have a field team out there next week if we need to. But the purpose behind Urban Planning Pros is to help people as far as investors make sure that you’ve got a good, you have a good exit strategy from the beginning before you go into contract, but also to knowing exactly what in the world can be done as far as feasibility wise. Cause we’ll handle the engineering and surveying, ownership representation, but also that ownership representation. We’ve been, ⁓ we’ve had a lot of people say, well, I thought you were the partner. I’m like, no, we’re just ownership rep.
That’s a good that’s You know for how great we are at that that part of it But but we want to make sure that we’ve got a good supportive team to help investors who need direction Not just needing plants right and sometimes that kind of means the same thing to folks But when it comes to the direction of the project and the development a lot of investors have money But they don’t have that vision or they don’t have the wherewithal to say okay Maybe this may be good idea for this stage one
or stage two, so on and so forth. And there’s a lot of folks that are just, they have their sandbox that they love to play in and they just need help to expand. And that’s where we can come in too, because we can help scale. And we’ve partnered with landowners to be able to do GP projects as well. Very selective on those, but we want to make sure that investors are actually, they’re actually understanding what they’re getting themselves into before they go again, go to contract.
and then try to go in through the entire construction phase and then try to scrounge for pennies when they can genuinely be restful and relaxed with a good plan because I mean, that’s what the word says. You want to be able to count the house before you, you want to count the cost of the house before you try and go build it. Yeah, that’s just good life advice, but also too for, especially for when you have, you know, at risk at hand, you definitely want to make sure you consider things ahead of time.
Erika (08:41)
Yeah, there are so many considerations and aspects that can turn a deal sideways. I’m sure you’ve you’ve seen that now for you know, I’m just curious because excuse me there, my phone’s normally on silent for our for our listeners. know, they’re they’ve had a lot of, you know, twists and turns in the real estate world. Have have you had a moment?Jeremy Wenger (09:05)
⁓Erika (09:09)
with a client where you’ve kind of helped them already when they’re further along and they’re under contract. Do you help with navigating those difficult moments too?Jeremy Wenger (09:22)
yeah, yeah, yeah. mean, depends on throughout like the terms on that contract too, right? Timelines matter, right? And so we can jump into deals that are already in our contract to figure out what the feasibility study is or what the feasibility of that development is gonna be all the time. But we’re mindful of the timelines. We’re always gonna be able to, we always wanna make sure we’re managing expectations correctly and not getting.giving them false hope. can’t stand it when contractors jump into something and then they hit people with a change order. It
happens, duh, but why not front load as much as we possibly can? And I kind of tacked it back earlier on modular stuff. That’s not our go-to. That’s what happens to turn out to be a really solid option at times, but of course, traditional stick and cinder block builds, panel builds, all that kind of stuff are options, but it’s like…
When you’re already into a contract, you gotta be mindful of the timelines and then also too figuring out exactly how can we really understand from the beginning, what are you stepping into? Because what have you done to that point too? Because if they’re already in their contract or stuff, they’ve already got pressure on them and we wanna make sure that we’re going through and not skipping details, right? Because if we’re certifying the engineering side of stuff, then guess what? They’re able to sue us if we do something wrong, right?
That’s an obituary. And so we always want to look at how can we do a feasibility study in the beginning, figure out what is the highest and best use of that property, come back with a solid report and then put together a good scope of work for that potential direction, A, B, C or D, depending on what they’re looking at doing with that. Many things can fit, but not everything pencils correctly the way that that person is anticipating or intending because they may have been, I mean, the contracts, the contract.
the unwritten expectations are the things that really make that kind of stuff difficult. And that’s where if there are, we’ve had plenty of times when people have us hire us to do feasibility studies and then they’re like three days later, we need this done. I’m like, yeah, no. So just, nope. And so it was a little tough love in there, but to set the expectation correctly in the beginning, we’ll go through and handle anything that’s needed as far as any kind of current contractual, any kind of contract terms.
help them understand exactly what they’re looking at. If we need to do a phase one ESA report as far as the condition of the property based on buildings and look at soil reports as far as percolation of the soil, where can we start building and what can we start doing? Because you may have it under contract, but your logistics are what’s going to determine where you start at, right?
And that goes back to soil condition. goes back to the value add. What is the initial approach and the strategy and can they actually do it based on their funding sources too, because of where things need to begin. Accessibility is a big thing. And that’s where we start with. I that’s, I remember growing up in the tree and I was working my dad in the tree business, man. I used to carry these 15 pound big floppy pads.
Holy cow, we would, we put them down for the bucket trucks because then that way we wouldn’t leave, we wouldn’t leave ruts in the yard and it wouldn’t get stuck. I mean, those things are probably maybe four foot wide and eight foot long. And they’d bow up like that because of the bucket trucks that were so heavy. But what I’m getting at is that, you know, growing up accessibility in the tree industry was a big issue because then you had to get in the backyard and do all that kind of stuff. It doesn’t change for here.
when it comes down to how can you get into the property, easement access, et cetera, so on and so forth. So it’s like, can we capture that expectation and those terms that they’re under right then and there, measure their timelines because this is a talk that I have with either wholesalers or those who do seller acquisition, purchases, ⁓ how did you buy it? Or how are you planning to buy it? And so that way we know exactly if we’re going to do a preliminary stage of something comparatively to a full blown.
land planning, ⁓ master plan. So there’s a lot of stuff that we factor in from wetlands to accessibility to timber to wetland credits to, is this where is this located at with the opportunity zones 2.0 that have come out, right? Like how can we layer in different things for them to give them the best optimal outcome, but then also look at how can we structure it to where now you’ve got, know, based on what you were looking at originally.
Here’s a couple different ideas that you may not have considered, but then now you can actually entertain them if your timelines are good and so on. So many different unknowns that go into that.
Erika (14:41)
It seems like they’re, you know, what you do, it’s so dependent on the situation and the information that you find. So do you have any stories, because you were talking about those opportunities that, you you were able to find creative solutions or ideas that weren’t otherwise considered.Jeremy Wenger (15:42)
Oh man. Shoot. That’s a lot. I’d say there’s one, one I can think of that client, it’s his first development and he went into your first ground up development, went at it with five different concepts and then halfway through the project after we got the engineering approved from the city decided to say, well, I want to do something different. I’m like.Okay, but if you decide to do that then here’s what’s gonna come along with it and every all the additional money you want to pay to then readjust stuff because ⁓ He was brand new and of course, he is still going through his development We got everything to the finish line for certain for certain stages of the project, which is great but now it’s a matter of making sure that he’s got a His capital raise is good to then carry to the next stage of it. Heck we have
We’ve had people start out with wanting to do, say, 30 doors on a piece of property and then shift to doing a mix of retail and industrial, right? Because they were like, wow, the numbers do make sense based on timelines and margin, right? Because you have barriers of entry when it comes to projects based on zoning and wetlands and accessibility. And what most people don’t talk about is an NIMBY, right? Not in my backyard.
That’s a thing. And so we always try to we’ve always tried to make sure we shift people’s expectations halfway through it based on you know what they’re trying to approach and so with a guy that wanted to Shift and do different things. We’re like, well, yes, you’re welcome to do that But here’s the cost associated with that if we take this back to the city get the site redrawn Site plan redrawn to etc. So on and so forth. We ran through all of those steps Ran through all the margins is based on what he’s trying to build and he just stuck with that original plan because he saw
wow, ⁓ yeah, that’s not as easy as I thought. so we’ve even too had some folks where they’ve got land where they want to do cattle ranching, right? Great, love it. My family are farmers from Iowa. And so I’m now born and raised here in Alabama, but man, I tell you, ⁓ you look at the pros and cons to everything, right? And you look at how can we structure it to do something that may incorporate equipment storage.
and be able to then be able to build out something for the community? Or do we do it as far as cattle grazing, sorry I was over your brain almost blanked on the word, but can we combine grazing cattle with selling beef to be able to then bring that straight to the market, right? How do we do that without coming out pocket with so much overhead? We build a waiting list. We build the anticipation.
Because even the USDA is going to want to be able to then say, but how are you going to pay us back? No matter what, the lender is always going to ask, how are you paying us back? That’s just obvious. And what a lot of folks don’t understand is that for some reason, investors, if you’re out there and you’re thinking that you’re going get 100 % financing, it’s very rare, but you’re going to have to pay for people’s money. You are going to have to pay for people’s money.
And so there’s a lot of stuff that we’ve had to reset expectation with during a project, even to halfway through it, but especially beginning with it. That’s why we go through our own version of SWOT analysis on stuff as far as projects go, because everyone is excited in the beginning.
And just like Mike Tyson said, everybody’s got a plan until they get hit. Yeah. And it’s just like, I mean, dear Lord, until that in Mortal Kombat, until you have your first TKO like in life, you’re not really going to understand it. And it’s man, I tell you, and it’s interesting because with projects that start with developments for homes, then get switched over to a combination of residential, then
storage or if they get it mixed with retail or whatever, how can we anchor those different developments that have a low barrier of entry without having a high pushback? You know, and it’s like, can we restructure that? Because everyone’s lending parties are all different, right? Folks are working with institutions, folks are working with private lenders, folks are working with family offices, lines of credit.
there are all different types of monies that have different terms attached to them. That’s why all money is not good money, right? And it’s not a matter of saying all money, like some money is evil. Yes, it sure is. But based on the terms, based on, let’s break that down, based on the terms and who’s involved in that project, that determines whether or not it’s good or bad for that project. Because that’s where we look at, I mean, so many different things from managing expectations for even with the city too, because that’s why…
That’s why engineers are great, but a lot of them are technically inclined and making sure that based on the presentation project, as far as a project pitching to the right partners, mean, we’ve had clients where they communicate everything to everyone and the people in front of them only care about 10 % about what they’re talking about. They’re just like, this is my amazing thing that I care so much about.
and the lender’s like, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, here’s how, like, here’s how you’re getting your money back. That’s all they care about. That’s all they hear, right? The city is only going to care about the aesthetics, the location and the septic and water, water management. Right. And it’s like, how can we then bring all of that together? And yeah, so there’s a lot of stuff that we’ve had to read, read just halfway through projects where they’ve started with the.
residential in mine then became mixed use or mixed use and then became full-on residential and some that we just flat out have put together the whole entire project together for the past, I’d say a year and half, two years on some that are cattle ranching. So, I mean, we’re doing client projects all the time, no matter what. If we’re involved in the planning side of it as far as the project goes as a partner or not, we’re always doing phase one ESA reports, but as I’m talking with people,
I’m asking them about their vision and that way we can help them get to what they need because there’s always this chicken and the egg when it comes to real estate. Everyone’s needing answers half the time but they don’t have them and yet they want to have contractors do the work for free potentially, mean essentially, in the hopes that they get approved and that’s no bueno. A lot of times that’s where things kind of fall apart because they’ve…
pulled together a team with the expectation that everyone who’s gonna work for them is gonna put together these scopes of work without any skin in the game. And that’s where things are starting to fall apart a lot of these past, let’s say two, three years too, because heck, we’ve had people come to us for feasibility studies and they’re like, wait, you’re not gonna pay for it? I’m like.
Who raised you? What? Who trained you? No. we are the contractors. It’s uncertain projects, but I mean, that’s where we look at, know, selective projects. We’ll even come in and GP with folks and try to do what we can. And that’s where we don’t try to take on rescue projects, even on the client side of stuff, because half the time there’s a lot, mean.
I’d say, I mean, I’m being generous about half the time. Half the time they do fall apart just because of bad planning in the beginning. So if they’re under contract terms already, then we look at the timelines and go back to the original question. ⁓ We try to be respectful of that and realistic. mean, heck,
turn down jobs all the time. We’ll turn down jobs all the time just because of unrealistic expectations. And we don’t want to lead people astray. We don’t want people to be hopeful and then go to the bank and get laughed out of the office. That’s no fun for anybody. I mean, that’s embarrassing.
So we try to be brutally honest in the beginning and then that way, hey, we’ve got a saying, we try to be as pessimistic as possible to have a budget for optimism.
Erika (23:52)
I love that. That is such a good way to look at the planning. Well, Jeremy, this has been such an insightful conversation today. If someone wants to reach out to you, connect, maybe they need your services at Urban Planning Pros. What’s the best way for them to reach you?Jeremy Wenger (24:11)
They can either email mejust go to the contact page on our site. Our application’s there. They can fill out all of their scope of work and what they need. UrbanPlanningPros.com forward slash contact. ⁓ Very straightforward. the email for the team is [email protected]. And so that’s the easiest and best way, the fastest way actually to get a response from us because if you can line out stuff as far as in our application or email us the scope of work.
that you’re needing, then we can go ahead and put together an estimate for you to make sure that we’ve got your vision captured, understood exactly what you need to do as far as logistics go, and then put together next steps.
Erika (24:50)
For our listeners who really are interested, what states are you operating in?Jeremy Wenger (24:56)
I mean, we’re operating in all 50 states. I mean, we’re not working much in Alaska or Hawaii, but right now, as far as the mainland, we’re right now working in all of that. I mean, we’re nationwide. I mean, we’ve just been working a lot in the Sun Belt from Texas over to the Carolinas, you know, in that area. But we’ve done projects all over, man. I mean, from Oklahoma to Indiana to Utah to California. I mean, we’re really not limited because our field teams are licensed in all of our states becauseWe don’t want to limit people to it, but also too, we’ll make sure that, I mean, heck, if it’s something that ⁓ we can’t serve, then we will just be straight up with folks.
Erika (25:36)
again, Jeremy, appreciate you coming on the show today.Jeremy Wenger (25:40)
Yeah, thank you for having me.Erika (25:42)
For our listeners today, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure that you’re subscribed to the Real Estate Pros podcast. We’ve got more conversations lined up with pros like Jeremy, who are building fantastic real estate businesses. We’ll see you on the next episode.
