How to Run Rental Properties Like a Business | Systems for Independent Landlords

Seamus Nally (00:00)
Whether they have one or two units, thinking that they don’t need any process, right? Cause it because it’s just gonna be easy. So that’s a big one. The other thing that we see is a lot of landlords are not paying attention to their expenses and their write-offs and general bookkeeping. Like whether you have one unit or you have a hundred units, like you are a business, you know.

Whether it’s in an LLC or it’s not in an LLC, like it does that doesn’t matter. You are a business. And one of the benefits of real estate investing, right, is those tax write-offs.

Scott Bursey (02:04)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast, powered by Investor Fuel. I’m your host, Scott Bursey. And today we’re delighted to be joined by Seamus Nally of TurboTenant. Listeners, you can expect how to learn to bridge the gap between being an independent landlord and operating like a true tech-savvy powerhouse. Seamus, welcome to the show.

Seamus Nally (02:29)
Scott, thanks. Excited to be here.

Scott Bursey (02:31)
Awesome to have you here, man. And to help our listeners get up to speed. Please give us the ninety-second highlight reel of how your career ignited and where you’re pouring your fuel now.

Seamus Nally (02:42)
Yeah, so I have the privilege of both being a real estate investor and landlord on the side, as well as the CEO of TurboTenant and making really making real estate my day job, right? I started investing with my younger brothers and building up a portfolio, really sticking to the BRRRR Method, right? Buying, fixing up, holding, refinancing, and grew a portfolio with them.

And then in parallel, I came across this company, TurboTenant, that was building software for independent landlords just like myself, joined the company and then in two thousand twenty-one became CEO. And it’s been an incredible ride to mix my you know, side passion for building wealth with my W-2.

Scott Bursey (03:26)
Seamus, that is some powerful stuff. Thank you for sharing that evolution with us. And you know, what really caught my attention about you was the way you’ve been able to transform TurboTenant into an all-in-one platform that helps independent landlords stop juggling fragmented processes and start scaling with confidence. With that in mind, curious to know, regarding your strengths as a product leader, how do you identify which landlord pain points are actually worth solving versus just adding noise.

Seamus Nally (04:01)
Yeah. So we start out in the vacancy aspect, right, of the landlord journey because what we’ve found over the years and I’ve experienced as well is like your anxiety, the work involved is heightened at the time of vacancy, right? You get that notice that somebody’s moving out or you buy a brand new property and landlords are questioning, okay, where do I go to fill it? How do how do I go about it? And that’s actually when most landlords find TurboTenant.

And we help them through the vacancy process in one of two ways. One is we have a set of tools that they can use if they want to manage it themselves. Or the other, if they want to kind of put it on autopilot, we will take on those management responsibilities and place a tenant on their behalf. And the process for both of those is pretty similar in that you’re gonna get your listing out there in front of prospective renters, right? All those leads come back into TurboTenant.

They are going to be processed. You’re going to invite them to apply to make sure that you’re getting a credit and you know, criminal and eviction record based on where your property is located. And then you need a lease agreement, right? That’s the other big part. And so we have a legal team that builds state- and city-specific lease agreements that landlords utilize to rent out, rent out their property. And so that’s really that vacancy into leasing process.

Is where most landlords find us, start using us and get value. And then they keep using us during residency because we help to facilitate rent payments, maintenance requests, and solve those challenges. And so really what we’ve done is just drawn out these are all the steps to being a landlord, right? They don’t all happen in the perfect order. But and then when we think about what we’re building and where we’re trying to add value, we just keep circling the biggest one, right? And we’ve been fortunate that we’ve now circled enough parts of that landlord journey that we have a lot of the major aspects covered.

Scott Bursey (06:43)
How can a landlord apply that same product mindset to their own property management tasks?

Seamus Nally (06:50)
Yeah, I think it’s really identifying what it is you want to spend your time and energy on and what areas you don’t, right? Like I get an opportunity to talk to so many landlords and one of the big complaints is like getting rent paid on time. And I always the first question I always ask is like, Well, do you send a reminder? And they’re like, No, they should be responsible adults, blah, blah, blah. And I say, Well, how about for your loans or mortgages or car payments? Do you get a reminder email? Yeah.

It’s like, all right, we’ll use a system that automatically sends a reminder, right? Like there’s these little things, these little things that we we have come to expect, right, in our world around us. And we don’t always apply them to being a landlord in the process that we put in place. And so my suggestion is for all landlords, whether you’re just getting into this or maybe you’ve done a lease or two, is just write down all the steps to the process.

And then think about how you’re gonna do it in a way that makes it feel at least close to passive, right? Might not be completely passive, but at least close to passive, where you still have the level of transparency and control that you need to feel really good about, you know, your investment. But where you don’t feel like every time you’re doing it is the very first time. That’s the challenge with being a landlord. If you have a lease up every 12 months, 24 months, gosh, every time you do it, it feels like it’s the first time you’re going through that, that step.

Scott Bursey (08:12)
I love that. And Seamus, interested to hear, in terms of weaknesses, what is the biggest operational trap you see independent landlords falling into when they try to DIY their management?

Seamus Nally (08:27)
Yeah, whether they have one or two units, thinking that they don’t need any process, right? Cause it because it’s just gonna be easy. So that’s a big one. The other thing that we see is a lot of landlords are not paying attention to their expenses and their write-offs and general bookkeeping. Like whether you have one unit or you have a hundred units, like you are a business, you know.

Whether it’s in an LLC or it’s not in an LLC, like it does that doesn’t matter. You are a business. And one of the benefits of real estate investing, right, is those tax write-offs.

But the amount of landlords that have literally, your box of receipts or a couple of pictures in the camera roll that they took, but they’re not organizing and keeping track of those things. It’s incredible. So I’d say that’s another big pitfall, which is like not considering it and thinking about it a little bit more like a business and then staying on top of it.

So that you maximize your write-offs, your cash flow and those sorts of opportunities.

Scott Bursey (09:22)
In your view, what is the easiest immediate fix for clean books?

Seamus Nally (10:01)
So I’m always gonna say TurboTenant, right? But we have expense tracking and software that allows you allows you to do that really easily. But honestly, the easiest thing to do, whether you’re using a software platform or not, is just spend a little bit of time looking at the things you can actually write off and just being aware so that you have these little triggers, right? Like for me,

Every time I go into Lowe’s, pull into Lowe’s parking lot, I’ve kind of trained myself to think, am I is this for one of my rentals or not? Right. If it’s for one of my rentals, I remember to use my business card, right? I remember to keep that receipt and have it emailed to my specific email account, right? So that I can use it and write it off and keep track. And so for me, it’s really just been a number of different first education, learning what I should be paying attention to, and then trying to create little trigger points so that I so that I remember to just stay organized, stay on top of it.

Scott Bursey (11:01)
That is practical. That is really some good advice for our listeners. And we love your perspective on the opportunities ahead. Where do you see AI and automation genuinely the needle for the average investor in the next 12 months?

Seamus Nally (11:18)
Yeah, so the capability that AI has brought for, you know, kind of across the board, both as a landlord in my day job as CEO of TurboTenant and as a renter, it is really incredible. And so I think what we all have to understand as landlords is the way renters search for properties is gonna start changing, right? As opposed to just specifically going to a portal and just scrolling up and down, right?

They’re gonna use LLMs. They’re gonna be in ChatGPT, you know, Gemini, and they’re gonna be saying, Hey, I’m looking for a three bedroom near a park, right? On the transit line where I can have dogs, you know? And so they’re gonna be looking for those sort of details. And then instead of getting 30 options on Apartments.com, they’re gonna get a couple, one or two, right? And so I think what is really important as a landlord first in the vacancy step, right?

Is think about the details that you’re adding to your listing. And making sure that they’re fruitful enough that they can be picked up in some of these much more highly specific searches. Same goes with photos, right? A lot of these photos are gonna actually be are gonna be pulled into the LLMs, right? And they’re gonna know if there’s a back porch in the photo.

Right. That that actually can be part of a listing description and what shows up, right? When it’s kind of doing the readout. And so I think it’s just super important to take some time in the listing description that you create. Take some time on the actual photos so they’re high quality. And those are two challenges that TurboTenant is trying to solve, where once you upload your photos, we’re both working on the ability to clean up the lighting, kind of clean them up and present them, not change them because ultimately it’s your property, right?

But clean them up so they look like they’re professional photography photos. And then also we take a look at the photos and all the other details you’ve added, and we actually create a a very full listing description to do that. And so I think that is like a really easy way, both on the landlord side to change what you’re doing to better meet the needs of how tenants are gonna search. So that’s a big one. Another one that I’m super excited about, and we’ve incorporated within TurboTenant because we’re fortunate enough to have all these landlords managing their properties through our tools, right? And so every month we see 15,000, 20,000 maintenance requests between tenants to landlords. What’s incredible is how many maintenance requests say things like, the sink is leaking. Now, I don’t know about you, Scott, but I’ve never been in a place that doesn’t have at least two sinks, right? Even in New York, and then there’s some bathroom sink, right?

And so the lack of specificity in most of these maintenance requests is incredible. And so as a landlord, you get it and you can’t take immediate action. And so what we’ve done is utilized AI so that Scott, if I’m your tenant, right, and I put in the sink is leaking, I actually get a response back that says, it’s a three-bedroom house, which of the sinks is leaking, right? And then it says, Did you turn off the water? How long has it been happening? So we actually ask the tenant questions. And so coming out of that experience, the tenant has—or the landlord receives—what looks closer to a work order, right? And then they know they can pass that off to a plumber, right? They can pass that off to an electrician, or they can elect to go, go do it themselves. And so that’s another way in which AI is kind of being inserted in the process just to cut down on the back and forth the communication and give a lot more clarity to landlords. Because it’s really challenging, right? You want to act with urgency, but you also don’t have the information at all to know how exactly to to go about it. And so we’re trying to clean up that process a little bit, which is another way that just AI is playing a big role in in what we’re building for landlords.

Scott Bursey (15:46)
How should someone start integrating AI without getting overwhelmed by the tech?

Seamus Nally (15:53)
Yeah. I start with questions. So it’s those questions that come up through the process of being a landlord. The other thing that AI is really good for is describe the situation you’re in. So I’m gonna go back to the maintenance request, but one of the things I had a water heater go out on one of my units. This was, let’s see, in the winter, right? And so it’s Sunday afternoon. I get the get the message through TurboTenant. It says the water heater went out. I didn’t know at that time. I knew I was gonna have to get a plumber. I knew my regular guy wasn’t gonna be able to operate that quickly, right? And so I went to ChatGPT and I just typed in what are questions I should ask to interview a plumber to know if they’re good. Right. And I just described the situation. I said, give me some questions to ask. And the same things happen with—I’ve done the same thing with HVAC, electric, right?

Just to feel more informed. So when I’m going to some of those conversations, it reduces the anxiety a little bit. And it really all starts with describing your situation and then just asking some questions.

Scott Bursey (16:59)
Seamus, as the rental market changes, what is the one thing landlords should be protecting against ensure their portfolios remain resilient?

Seamus Nally (17:08)
Yeah. That should be on everyone’s mind as we’ve just gone through this period of time where rents were rising, rising, rising across almost every single market, right? Through the COVID period, to a lot of markets flattening, some even actually dropping. And I think ultimately that’s a good thing. We’ve got more supply coming on in the United States, which is important from an affordability standpoint. But it’s really important to protect your own portfolio that you’re thinking about a couple of things. One is what are your expenses?

And when’s the last time you’ve tried to renegotiate them or look for alternatives, right? Your insurance, right? Shop it around, see what other quotes out there you can get. Cause if you can save just you know, fifty dollars a month, that goes right to the bottom line, right? And so whether it’s vendors, things that you’re spending money on to check those expenses and drop those is super important. The other thing is if you’re in an environment where in in a market where rent prices start dropping.

The best thing you can do is hold on to your current tenants at the current rent. Right. And I a lot of landlords, I don’t think, try hard enough to retain those tenants by going the extra mile. And so that is super important. Like here in Colorado, we’ve had some softening of rent prices. And so I have a couple units in Colorado. And for me, it’s about how do I keep my tenants happy and in the in in in the apartment. Right. Because not only will I lose money during the vacancy period when I do the turnover, but

The chance of me renting it out for the same price is you know, might not be super strong. Right. And so I I don’t think enough landlords think about the income side of their portfolio and making sure to just retain those tenants from that perspective.

Scott Bursey (18:49)
That is a critical point. And I wonder about your strengths in leadership, Seamus. What is your secret to cultivating such a high-performing team at TurboTenant, especially in the fast-paced PropTech world?

Seamus Nally (19:05)
Yeah, we’ve been very fortunate to craft a culture here that works for high-performing people. And the start of that actually has been most companies focus around like values. What we’ve elected to do is focus more around virtues, which is behaviors, right? Not things that you believe, but rather ways you be behave. Cause our belief is that if everyone behaves in a certain way, it’s gonna increase the likelihood of our success. And so we’ve really strove strive to create an environment where everyone is constantly trying to unlock potential in themselves. People know and understand that it’s important to act with velocity. We call our virtue Increase Velocity. There’s something you can get done today, get it done today instead of tomorrow morning because that allows the next person to get it done that much faster and that much faster. And then we really utilize feedback as an important learning tool within the company. And I get feedback from everyone within the organization. It doesn’t matter their job title or their role. They see things that could be better in the company. They tell me. In fact, I sign off our Monday morning, we have Monday morning team company team meetings where everyone joins. It’s 20 minutes, we go over our high-level goals and how we’re pacing them. But I always sign off with the old TSA actually slogan, which is like, “If You See Something, Say Something.”

Right. And that’s super important for us as a company because it, I only have two eyes, but amongst my almost three hundred team members, that’s six hundred eyes out there that could be looking for opportunities for us to help our users more. And so I would say that’s the other the other element that’s just become super important is to use everyone’s strengths and ability to provide excellent feedback to continue to improve and just honestly keep the snowball rolling a little bit more every single day. Right.

Scott Bursey (20:55)
How can a small-scale investor apply those same team-building principles when they are just starting to hire their first property managers?

Seamus Nally (21:05)
Yeah, it’s very hard to run a business. I’ve before this I founded a couple others. And what I realized over the over my career is it’s very hard to do it. And so you might as well build a culture that works really well for you. And so my suggestion if whether you’re going out and hiring your first or your thousandth team member is make sure that you understand what kind of culture and environment is gonna be really easy for you to lead.

I didn’t do this when I first took over as CEO at TurboTenant. I tried to be the perfect textbook CEO. I was reading blogs. What is the tip, you know, what is the best culture to create all these things? And I actually felt like a complete pretender, you know, a little bit. And then we reshaped things so that the culture and the way we worked was really authentic to me and my style.

And then everything started to click. And then from that point forward, we actually use that in part of our rubric when we’re hiring people. And so if you know, you’re hiring your first team member, I would just really think about what kind of culture is gonna be really easy for you to lead and then make sure you’re evaluating that person against that culture when they come in, or you’ll get a, you know, what a the round peg and a square hole problem.

Scott Bursey (22:21)
That is a masterclass in leadership. Thank you for that, Seamus. And I’ve got to ask, what does your professional network look like right now?

Seamus Nally (22:30)
Yeah, so I’ve been fortunate to spend a lot of time with landlords and real estate investors. At TurboTenant, not only have we had over, you know, a million landlords use our product, but we also hold events from time to time that I go to and learn from especially local Colorado-based landlords. And then I’ve also been really fortunate in that some of our investors and TurboTenant have pulled together these different CEO peer groups that I’ve got a chance to spend time with and learn. And these are people across not just PropTech, but all different industries facing all different types of problems. And learning that some of the challenges I go through are not unique, right? Is very comforting and I’m able to take a lot of good lessons from those conversations.

Scott Bursey (23:11)
That’s a powerful circle of influence right there. Seamus, if an independent landlord came to you today with a solid foundation but wanted to 10 times their efficiency, what is the most important system they should implement?

Seamus Nally (23:30)
Would say a property management software solution, right? Something that’s going to help them with each stage of the process, something that’s going to help them keep track of those expenses. Obviously I’m biased as to which one, but honestly, I would tell them, just pick one, start using it. It’s gonna make you feel like you are you are on top of your business. It also gives you a level, and I was blown away at how much this mattered. Yeah, even in my own my own experience as a landlord.

But it gave me a level of like feeling professional, right? Feeling a little bit of confidence. Because every job has tools, right? But as a landlord, I didn’t have any tools, you know, at the at the time before I found TurboTenant, then eventually started working at TurboTenant. And so just having a platform gave me this confidence that I can 10x my portfolio, right? That I can grow it. That this is repeatable and not just based on a on a prayer, right?

That’s what I share with with landlords when I meet that are first time or maybe have been doing it for years but want to start growing.

Scott Bursey (24:31)
That is exactly the kind of insight our listeners need to hear. And you have provided a lot of insight today. Is there any additional words of wisdom that you could leave with our listeners?

Seamus Nally (24:46)
I just think that, you know, people are way more capable than they than they think often. And so being a landlord it can be very intimidating. For me, you know, I’ve had an opportunity to buy rental properties. There’s nothing scarier than closing. You know, you’re supposed to celebrate and like be super pumped. It honestly terrifies me, Scott. Every time you close, because you know that there’s a lot at stake, right? You’re putting a lot of yourself kind of into it. And so I think people that are on the fence unsure as to whether or not they’re capable should feel an element of resolve that they can do this. And that there’s a lot of paths forward to make it to make it easier. Doesn’t have to be a grind or a nonstop stressor.

Scott Bursey (25:33)
Love it. Seamus, for those of our listeners that want to keep this conversation moving, stay in your lane, or perhaps even collaborate with you on future deals, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Seamus Nally (25:45)
Yes, the best way to reach me is probably through LinkedIn. I personally don’t use a lot of the socials, but TurboTenant is very active on Instagram, Facebook, across YouTube. But yes, I’d say find me, find me on LinkedIn and follow TurboTenant.

Scott Bursey (26:04)
Seamus, thank you for joining us today on the *Real Estate Pros* podcast.

Seamus Nally (26:08)
Yeah,

Thanks for having me, Scott. It’s an absolute pleasure.

Scott Bursey (26:11)
It’s been an absolute masterclass, my friend. And to our listeners, we appreciate you. If you receive value from today’s episode, please subscribe. We’ll be filling your tanks with a lineup of elite guests, just like Seamus Nally, who are accelerating and setting the pace for the rest of the industry. Until next time, keep your standards high and your vision clear. We’ll see you in the next episode, everyone.