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How To Buy Real Estate With Creative Financing | Terms Deals Explained by Joel Sangerman

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Show Summary

In this episode, Joel Sangerman shares his extensive experience in real estate investing, focusing on creative financing strategies, the importance of proper training, and building a successful real estate career. Discover actionable insights on deal structuring, community building, and leveraging AI for skill mastery.

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    Investor Fuel Show Transcript:

    Joel Sangerman (00:00)
    Well, I would back that up just a little bit and say before I even tried to implement an acquisition strategy, I would get good training. It’s too easy and too prevalent for people to be fed crap on Instagram, YouTube. I mean, not to call my own stuff crap, but you’re not gonna learn a full acquisition strategy by going to my Instagram channel.

    You’re gonna see some sexy little sound bites and whatnot, and it’s gonna get you a little hot and bothered about getting into real estate. But you must get properly trained because the lack of proper training is leading to complete clowns going out there trying to acquire properties.

    Dylan Silver (02:15)
    Hey folks, welcome back to the show. Today’s guest, Joel Sangerman is a long time real estate investor, fund manager and educator who has completed deals across multiple markets using creative and traditional finance strategies. He’s the founder of ibuyrealestate.com, Terms Daddy and the Real Estate Deal Room where he helps investors structure profitable deals in any market cycle. He is known for his direct no fluff approach to building durable wealth through real estate assets. Welcome to the show, Joel.

    Joel Sangerman (02:45)
    Thanks, thanks for having me. And Dylan, you did a great job keeping a straight face given our earlier conversation about terms daddy.

    Dylan Silver (02:52)
    Hey,

    that’s a great, that’s a great one. And as far as Instagram handles and branding goes, you know, that’s a great name. How did you come up with, with Terms Daddy?

    Joel Sangerman (03:03)
    Well, we used to do a lot of renovations back in the early 90s and we used to call the properties junkers. And when Al Gore invented the internet, there was an opportunity to buy internet ⁓ URLs and came up with Junker Daddy. And then of course GoDaddy came out and stole my thunder.

    Dylan Silver (03:23)
    And well, you had it first.

    Joel Sangerman (03:24)
    But, then,

    well, then of course we evolved from doing renovations to doing deals that involve financing terms so that we could capture a little bit more of the market. I mean, there’s nobody that we can’t do a deal with when you can buy for cash, but you can also buy on terms, meaning the seller finances or the seller takes monthly payments for a period of time. So we changed everything to terms daddy. And then I got to be known as the terms daddy.

    Dylan Silver (03:46)
    How did you get me?

    The term’s daddy. How did you get involved in real estate investing? I know that you’re in the Las Vegas area right now. Have you always been out there?

    Joel Sangerman (03:59)
    No, no, I’m born and raised in Chicago, love Chicago. It’s a little bit too ⁓ cold, frigid, and ⁓ Las Vegas, the weather’s beautiful, and there was tremendous opportunities for real estate out here. Going back to the 90s, this city has grown. ⁓

    exponentially in terms of value, in terms of people, terms of, you know, what’s available to do here. So, I still love Chicago, but you know, really love Las Vegas, but yeah, I got started, mostly because I was working in, ⁓ medical sales and biotechnology and dealing with a corporate America that

    was frankly frustrating, a little bit ⁓ boring. I felt like I was trading my time for money. I’m sitting in meetings that, you know, it’s like on the Charlie Brown show where you’re just hearing, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. It’s just annoying. And then I saw one of these infomercials back in the day, guy by the name of Carlton Sheets bought the infomercial.

    And, ⁓ you know, really took off from there because, know, I followed the program, made $30,000, you know, which isn’t a lot of money, but in the, you know, in the early nineties.

    Dylan Silver (06:03)
    There’s a lot of money there.

    Joel Sangerman (06:05)
    Yeah, for sure. And I think even people today would be happy with an extra $30,000 to making a few phone calls, you know, using some skills that have been uploaded from, you know, some kind of real estate training. And but you know, that was that was, ⁓ that was my ticket right there. I was like, I don’t want to sit in these stupid meetings anymore. I’m wasting my time. The amount of time I sat here listening to want want want want want want want I could have I could have made you know, 25 grand.

    Dylan Silver (06:08)
    30,000.

    like to ask you about, you know, being in Las Vegas, the greater Las Vegas area, is there a really strong community of, you know, real estate investors and people who are interested in investing in real estate? It seems to be the case that I’m seeing more and more, you know, really strong communities throughout the country. Is Las Vegas one of them?

    Joel Sangerman (06:51)
    Absolutely, it is. I don’t really do a lot of community stuff, but there are a lot of ⁓ real estate investors out here for sure. You know that just by every time you get off the highway, you see somebody using the old bandit signs and then you see posters on the telephone poles. So ⁓ certainly this is a thriving city for entrepreneurialism and and degenerate gamblers as well. but there’s a lot of there are a lot of entrepreneurs for sure.

    Dylan Silver (07:19)
    Hey, there’s two forms of adrenaline right there. You can flip phones or you can, you know, go to the casino. You know, when we talk about acquisition specifically, I think that there’s a lot of interest in, you know, getting, especially for folks getting into the business, getting that first deal. Sometimes people may even be so gung-ho that they might get a deal under contract that they potentially should not have just because that they’re so, you know, gung-ho on getting into the business. If you had to start all over again today and get

    Joel Sangerman (07:22)
    That’s right.

    No doubt.

    Dylan Silver (07:49)
    into real estate investing, is there one lead source or acquisition strategy that you would have?

    Joel Sangerman (07:57)
    Well, I would back that up just a little bit and say before I even tried to implement an acquisition strategy, I would get good training. It’s too easy and too prevalent for people to be fed crap on Instagram, YouTube. I mean, not to call my own stuff crap, but you’re not gonna learn a full acquisition strategy by going to my Instagram channel.

    You’re gonna see some sexy little sound bites and whatnot, and it’s gonna get you a little hot and bothered about getting into real estate. But you must get properly trained because the lack of proper training is leading to complete clowns going out there trying to acquire properties.

    And that’s led to massive amounts of regulation in an industry that was blue sky for decades. And it’s not anymore.

    because you have people doing things that they haven’t been trained to do properly. So my first acquisition strategy would be, and it doesn’t have to be with me, there are good trainings out there, but I would get trained up. would, you know, look, go to a semester of school before you start dealing in properties that are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. Go to a semester of school. Take some kind of a, you know, three month program or something like that where the information can be uploaded to your brain.

    so that then you can download it into the market and make money. Don’t watch a YouTube video and then go out and start, you know, wreaking havoc. And in terms of the actual strategy itself, I can, it really does depend on, you know, what your, financial situation is. If you’re totally broke, it’s fine. You can still learn the skills, just go get a contract and then sell the contract. It doesn’t have to be, you know, like a wholesale price. It could be just getting a deal.

    Dylan Silver (09:23)
    I agree.

    Joel Sangerman (09:41)
    with some kind of financing terms and then selling that deal to somebody who wants financing terms for 10, 15, 20 grand. So you’re really selling the deal if you have no money or you can lock the property up, find your buyer, simultaneously close, funding your purchase, not with your money, but funding your purchase out of the buyer you’ve also found. So you would go out and find your seller and your buyer simultaneously close,

    walk away with the spread, walk away with the difference.

    There’s a million different ways to do this, but people need to get trained and not trained on just one strategy. think people need a much more robust portfolio of skills so that they can handle any seller situation that comes up. It makes life a lot easier.

    Dylan Silver (10:58)
    Right, right. mean, I cut my teeth in the wholesale space. And I think when we talk about, you know, used to be blue skies and now regulation, think wholesale would be, you know, what people point to. I remember going through a real estate school in Fort Worth, Texas. And, know, that was one of the things that was regularly brought up, you know, is this idea of, you know, cash offers. And then also, if you get anybody coming to you with a creative offer, kind of like run. And I was sitting there thinking like, what was I doing?

    Joel Sangerman (11:02)
    Sure.

    Yeah.

    Dylan Silver (11:28)
    this whole time. Like I feel like they’re just calling me out. But it’s because you do have a lot of people who may see like an Instagram reel, or they may just see it in their social media feed. And then, you know, the next thing you know, they’ll be knocking doors trying to get properties under contract, and they don’t even know how to, you know, talk to a title company, right? So you run into issues there.

    Joel Sangerman (11:50)
    or putting sellers in risky situations that they never understood or explained properly, they develop trust with that seller, they get a contract, and then they sell that contract to some moron who totally screws the seller over. And then that ends up ⁓ being brought to the attention of regulators. And now you have legislation that is over the top in terms of what’s needed to protect people.

    Dylan Silver (12:14)
    Yeah. And I think specifically like subject to the existing loan, right? Where someone is assuming the, the, the payment, right? Without the ⁓ lender potentially knowing, right? And then, so if, if that end, right.

    Joel Sangerman (12:19)
    Mm-hmm.

    Tremendous misinformation in that space. The people who are

    in that community really ought to think twice about what they’ve learned and maybe check their facts on some things. Even though we do deals that are sub 2, but we do them ethically, we do them the right way. We don’t go assigning those deals out. I think if you do that, ⁓ you’re really not operating ethically because you’ve made certain commitments to the seller. Their name is on the mortgage and you ought to stay responsible for it until it’s paid off.

    Dylan Silver (12:57)
    Yeah, 100%.

    I think as certainly as a realtor right now, I have to always think first of, okay, well, I’m going to be held to this higher standard, but it also does kind of eliminate a lot of the strategies that maybe I could have done previously just because there’s, you know, a higher bar to hurdle in these transactions, which I think is ultimately to protect sellers. So that’s a good thing, right? I would like to pivot here though, Joel, and ask you specifically about ⁓ creating, you know, a community for yourself.

    Joel Sangerman (13:22)
    Yep. Sure.

    Dylan Silver (13:28)
    if

    you are getting into real estate. I know that you’re active on so many platforms, right? For folks who are looking at, know, how do I get started? I may be in Las Vegas or I may be in Miami, Florida, or I may be in, you know, upstate New York. How do I start, you know, dipping my feet in the water of real estate? Should they start with building that community around them?

    Joel Sangerman (13:52)
    Well, when you say building a community, you are going to have ⁓ players on your team that you deal with, but it’s really one of the few industries where a community isn’t needed. You need to learn how to structure a deal. And then you need to learn how to speak to a seller where that seller can get a feel for your character because nobody wants to deal with someone that they think doesn’t have integrity. And then they need to get a feel for your competency. When you marry

    character and competency, along with having the ability to structure deals properly, and you’re able to then communicate effectively with that seller, that’s where the deal happens. It doesn’t happen because you went to ⁓ a meetup. So I’m not really big on the whole community thing. I know that goes against the grain. People love bearded clowns who are out here saying this and saying that, but ⁓ I think it slows people down to be perfectly candid.

    Dylan Silver (14:37)
    Yeah.

    Joel Sangerman (14:52)
    you know, learn the skills, practice the skills, like for example, so we can upload the information to your brain in terms of how to structure deals, it’s going to take a little bit of studying, you know, asking some questions, going through some of the, you know, complicated aspects of things, but you know, anyone can understand it if they, you know, put a little time and effort into it,

    but just understanding it isn’t enough. You have to be able to communicate to the seller.

    And so one of things we do is we have a software application that capitalizes on the idea of repetition being the mother of mastery. So what happens is you come into this app and I’ve got these actors and actresses who will spit objections and questions and concerns at you that commonly come up. And then there’s an example of how to answer it. It’s me or one of my clients answering it well. And then you’re like, okay, now I try it. then the

    the app starts to record you. And then you’ve got to, you know, you’ve got to answer the question that the actor just gave you and it’s going to suck. So, so you, you watch it, you’re like, that’s terrible. Let me do it again. And then it still sucks. You watch it, you do it, you keep doing it until you get it right. And once it’s right, you hit submit. Well, it’s forcing you to practice overcoming the question or concern that comes up from the seller before you’re actually in a game situation. The same thing Tom Brady would do as a quarterback, right? Throw that pass to Grant.

    you a thousand times before they get on the field. That’s what needs to happen in this business as well. So those are, those are some things that are, that are much more important than, you know, going to meetups and, ⁓ and things like that where, know, you just get all hot and bothered, but nothing really happens.

    Dylan Silver (17:02)
    catch you around.

    You know, I’m glad you mentioned the repetitions, right? Especially with AI, and we were talking about this before hopping on here. It is mind blowing how granular it can get, right? So if you’re wanting to, you know, do a specific, you know, seller conversation and dialogue, you could build a model.

    And it sounds like you have right where people can interact and it can have a conversation You know where it is tailored to that specific niche that specific conversation if I wanted to drill down and say like hey I want to make a compelling seller finance offer and I’m talking directly to the seller and I don’t just want to say You know, will you take payments right? Because how compelling is that? it can walk me through a number of different ways to do that to me that’s one of the

    Joel Sangerman (17:55)
    Right.

    Dylan Silver (18:01)
    maybe most underutilized ways that I see AI being useful is it can help people really accelerate that learning curve without having to get in front of, know, face-to-face sellers and buyers. They can take, you know, repetitions on their own in their own home.

    Joel Sangerman (18:21)
    That that’s exactly correct. You and I were talking about it earlier. Both of us have a similar goal. You’re a little further along than me with speaking Spanish. I really want to learn to speak Spanish, but you got to get the reps and you got to get the practice in. Otherwise you’ll be in a situation like you were in where you know you were challenged, you know at a at a customs checkpoint, but you handled your own because you have you put the reps in. Well, you don’t want to be in front of a seller where you’re going to make $100,000 and screw the thing up. So put the reps in, get the practice quick.

    Dylan Silver (18:41)
    That’s right.

    That’s right.

    Joel Sangerman (18:51)
    Quit binging on YouTube videos and get into some kind of real training where you’re gonna have a coach handhold you through things. mean, ⁓ think of driving a car. You would never, and you look like you might be too young to remember the days where we had these Rand McNally Road atlases to get directions. You’re like trying to drive a car and you’re pulling out this map, folding it a million different ways, trying to see where to go. Nobody would do things like that. And that’s analogous to using YouTube to learn real estate deals.

    Today, we have a navigation system. We have a GPS. The GPS is like, in 200 feet, turn right. Well, that’s me or some other coach in your ear saying, this this next step. Here’s the next step. Here’s the next step. Now go get your money. It’s a much better way of learning real estate is when you have a coach being a GPS in your ear, one-on-one, hand holding you through the deal. But, know, a lot of times people are just,

    Dylan Silver (19:20)
    Yep.

    Joel Sangerman (19:47)
    not willing to invest a few grand into getting that coaching, but they don’t realize that they’re costing themselves hundreds of thousand dollars, if not millions, by not getting the proper training or being, you know, cheapskates and not paying for education. I don’t like paying for education either. I just spent 70 grand on my kids, you know, college this year and it’s, and I already know she’s probably not going to learn anything from it. I’m more paying for the experience for her.

    Dylan Silver (19:51)
    Yeah, that’s true.

    rates.

    especially

    It’s

    a piece of paper that’s worth a lot of money.

    Joel Sangerman (20:15)
    I’d much rather her, you know,

    start a business, you know, but her mom wanted her to go to college and

    Dylan Silver (20:20)
    That’s how it is. I was having this discussion

    with my buddy who just graduated ⁓ from school. And you know, it’s interesting because I think one of the, I guess, common

    Joel Sangerman (20:26)
    Yeah.

    Dylan Silver (20:32)
    you know, idioms that are ideas that people have is that you’re either an entrepreneur or you’re like W-2. But now that I’ve been hosting this show and talking to so many entrepreneurs, I’m realizing that that’s not as cookie cutter as I thought. There’s actually a number of doctors, right, who have, you know, a real estate ⁓ portfolio and they have a totally different strategy, right? So because they’re high W-2, their real estate portfolio doesn’t necessarily need to be generating lots of cash flow.

    It could potentially be losing a little bit of money, but then they can take that as a massive tax deduction against their W-2 and get potentially $100,000 back. And so it’s not as, hey, you’re either this or you’re this. I think we’re seeing a lot more coalescing of multiple different psychologies, but also segments of real estate.

    Joel Sangerman (21:09)
    True.

    Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more. You don’t have to leave a W-2 job. A lot of people have that goal. You can slowly build a portfolio of properties. You don’t even have to necessarily hold them. Sometimes you’ll hold them, sometimes you won’t. Sometimes you’ll hold them for just a short period of time. That gets a little bit granular in terms of the strategy, but I’ve been doing this for over 30 years now and you slowly build.

    I don’t want to confuse the bull market that we’ve had in real estate with brains. A lot of the appreciation of my portfolio had absolutely nothing to do with me. I was never planning on appreciation. But boy, you know, they say luck is the crossroads where preparation and opportunity collide. Well, you know, that’s kind of what happened. I don’t know if it’ll be the same pathway going forward, but I don’t see how you’re going to be hurt if you’re buying real estate with the risk-free strategies that we deploy where, you know, you’re not guaranteeing any debt.

    personally.

    and you’re building this portfolio that’s cash flowing because even if there’s debt on the property, it’s not your debt and that debt’s being paid down. And before you know it, you’ve got free and clear properties. Like in my case, I’m 58 years old, so I’ve got free and clear properties that, and I just collect money every single month on things that I haven’t even thought of for decades. And anyone can do that. Anyone can do that. mean, it wasn’t even really what I sought to do real estate wise, but doctors,

    Dylan Silver (22:46)
    Yeah, I mean, that’s a great.

    Joel Sangerman (22:55)
    lawyers, people who are in corporate jobs, you know, can spend a little bit of time, some evenings acquiring the skills and then, you know, dip their feet in the water, do a deal here, do a deal there. And before you know it, they’re doing a few of them, you know, a year, if not a few of them a month. And then the next thing you know, 10 years later, they can tell their boss to take this job and shove it.

    Dylan Silver (23:17)
    Yeah, they’re full time real estate investor at that point. And it buys you the ability to walk away. Right. I mean, think that’s one of the biggest things. It sounds like, you know, a lot of people and I think maybe you and your early stage when you were working in corporate America, it’s like not having the option to leave is the most painful part. Right. It’s like, you know, you may actually like certain aspects of your job, but it’s just the lack of control and knowing that, you know, my ability to to put food on the table and, you know, pay basic bills is predicated upon this person getting

    Joel Sangerman (23:23)
    It’s tasty.

    thousand percent.

    Dylan Silver (23:47)
    me money in exchange for my time. Like I can’t walk away. It’s my back’s against the wall and that’s an uncomfortable position for you know a lot of Americans to be in quite frankly. It’s what makes real estate so attractive. We are coming up on on time here though Joel. Any new projects that you’re working on and then as well what’s the best way for folks to reach out to reach out to you?

    Joel Sangerman (24:08)
    Sure, sure. Yeah, we’ve got some cool new things that are going on, although I don’t know if it would be necessarily appropriate for this audience. I’ve got a fund, but I’m not really allowed to talk about it unless you’re an accredited investor. that’s something that I’m excited about because it’s going to allow people to make money a lot more passively than having to actually go out and do the work, which is what I’m finding is people don’t really want to do the work.

    Dylan Silver (24:19)
    care.

    Joel Sangerman (24:33)
    But if you do want to do the work, if you do want to do the work, and what I mean by that is you have to, you know, spend some time in training ⁓ to learn a skill. It’s going to take a little bit of pain and a little bit of effort. And if you do want to do that, then you know, there’s opportunities for that as well. And I’m not a hard guy to find. You can probably find my YouTube channel.

    Um, or, know, or frankly, anyone can just text me. I, know, I mean, I can just give my cell phone out if anyone wants to, you know, get in touch. It’s 702-364-Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan, 2323 702-364-2323 hit me with a text and I’ll personally get back to you if, if, if real estate is something that you’re interested in. I will say that, um,

    Dylan Silver (25:09)
    All right.

    Joel Sangerman (25:22)
    You can buy as much real estate as you want without any of your own cash, without any of your own credit, but getting the skills to do that does cost money. There’s no point in me trying to train somebody for free. Like, you know, why would I do that? So, you know, you do need to have at least a few thousand dollars to get into the training. And if you’re not willing to do that, I do have the free community, which I think you mentioned school. You’ll get, you know, you’ll get a pretty good education there. Just you’ll go a little bit slower than having.

    the GPS in your ear, me telling you exactly what to do step by step.

    Dylan Silver (25:56)
    Joel, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thanks for your time.

    Joel Sangerman (26:00)
    My pleasure, Dylan. Have a good one.

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