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Show Summary
In this episode, Dylan interviews Tim Lewis, president of the New Hampshire Real Estate Investors Association and founder of Brick and Oak Properties. Tim shares his journey from building luxury homes to becoming a real estate investor through Joe Homebuyer. They discuss the New Hampshire real estate market, the demand for rental housing, challenges with zoning and historic regulations, and opportunities for investors, particularly in smaller markets, lake communities, and areas with strong short-term and mid-term rental demand.
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Tim Lewis (00:00)
Absolutely. I mean, to build on that Joe Homebuyer, they preach the in-person, you know, getting in front of somebody and, you know, really creating that human element between you and the seller. One thing that I learned very quickly, I got back from the acquisition training with Joe Homebuyer, got off the plane and was at my first appointment within six hours. So it was a really quick turnaround time, but that first seller that I spoke to, they were kind of at the end of their rope.Dylan Silver (02:00)
Hey folks, welcome back to the show. Today’s guest, Tim Lewis has been investing in real estate, starting with Joe Homebuyer and is now the president of the New Hampshire Real Estate Investors Association for the last two years. His company, Brick and Oak Properties, officially launched in August of 2025. Welcome to the show, Tim.Tim Lewis (02:22)
Thanks for having me, DylanDylan Silver (02:24)
Great to have you on here, New Hampshire Real Estate. Let’s start there. How did you get started investing?Tim Lewis (02:31)
So I probably about six or seven years ago got my real estate license or started taking classes for it. I’ve been building high end custom homes in the Lake Santa Fe region. And for those of you that are not familiar with New Hampshire, that’s pretty much smack dab in the middle of the state. Some very nice luxury properties. It’s a pretty exclusive lake. actually built the house on the last vacant lot on that lake back in, it would have been 2018 I believe.⁓ And at a certain point I said this really sucks in the middle of the winter I don’t know how we did it but every year we time it up just right to be ⁓ be outside or putting a roof on you know the dead of January when it was like negative 20 with the windchill so ⁓ One night I said, know, I bet I could sell more of these things in a year that I could build We would go foundation to finish. There’s about four guys on the crew. So we could build about two houses a year ⁓ Depending on the size of them
So I got my real estate license, found out that I really hate being a realtor. I’m not good at it because I would steer people away from stuff and I’m like, yeah, that’s gonna cost 20 grand there, that’s gonna cost 30 grand there. And I would scare buyers more than anything. So then I went back to ⁓ working in a kitchen kind of by accident. My uncle owned a restaurant, he needed a chef in there, so I was in there for about nine months. And then when I found out was gonna be a dad, I started looking for…
different jobs because I didn’t want to be working in a restaurant full time and trying to raise a kid. And I found a job with Joe Homebuyer in New England. And that’s, that’s when the investing side of my career really took off. ⁓ That’s I got in some acquisition training. It’s a great organization. I have them to thank for a lot of where my, my career is now. And I have nothing, nothing but good, good things to say about that organization.
Dylan Silver (04:23)
Now, I think a lot of people when they’re getting started would love to be in that position. I actually, when I was getting started, I was working for a national wholesaler. And what was interesting, and I’m sure you can relate to this, is it seems like a lot at once, right? You’re like, wow, I’m on both sides of this deal. I’m talking to sellers, I’m talking to investors. But in actuality, it was the best training that I could have received in so many ways. Because, you know, what better way to learn?how to take a deal from the cradle to the grave, then really seeing firsthand who is the type of person that would sell their home for cash, what situations would cause distress, why would someone need to move, and really all the situations that would make someone need to sell their home quickly, right?
Tim Lewis (05:59)
Absolutely. I mean, to build on that Joe Homebuyer, they preach the in-person, you know, getting in front of somebody and, you know, really creating that human element between you and the seller. One thing that I learned very quickly, I got back from the acquisition training with Joe Homebuyer, got off the plane and was at my first appointment within six hours. So it was a really quick turnaround time, but that first seller that I spoke to, they were kind of at the end of their rope.And it’s like, feel for these people. You realize that this isn’t just a transaction. This is somebody’s life. ⁓ and they had spent 20, 30 years in that house. They were there for a long time and they were in tears over just the thought of leaving the place. So you realize the pressure, the pressure that these people are under and the decision that they’re making. And it taught me that, you know, when the dial is turned up high, when, when the pressure is on like that, you can’t let these people down. ⁓ and that’s, know, that’s where you learn about delivering good expectations.
⁓ finding the creative deals because again, it’s somebody’s life. It’s not just a house.
Dylan Silver (07:02)
Yeah, you mentioned, you know.you’re exactly right. It’s their life, right? And coming from the wholesale space, and I’m a realtor now, but I wasn’t always a realtor. started in wholesale. You realize that that distressed space, especially, it takes in a niche investor. Also, if you’re a realtor, a niche realtor to be involved there, right? So oftentimes, know, wholesalers may get a bad rap, which is really where I consider I cut my teeth in wholesale. But the actuality is, and I think you may agree with this, Tim, is that most realtors,
don’t want to be involved in that side of the business or they just don’t have the familiarity or uncomfortable with that side of the business.
Tim Lewis (07:41)
Absolutely. I kind of, was the inverse of you. started as a builder and a realtor and then moved into the wholesale side of things. So, Brick and Oak Properties, a company that I’ve built myself, ⁓ I’ve kind of modeled that more towards the referral network ⁓ because you’re exactly right. A lot of realtors kind of have this disdain towards wholesalers and ⁓ don’t really want to get near that space. ButA lot of my business is built on referrals. A lot of realtors in the area, this is pretty small community out here, knew me, trusted me. And now they’re willing to learn about that side of the industry. They realize that I’m trying to serve a sector of the market that they can’t really cater to. ⁓ So I have realtors call me with listings that are on the brink of failing or they go in and upfront see the house needs more work than, you know, should be on the market. So they give me a call right away and I go in there and help them out. pay the referral fees for them and
You know, it’s a win for everyone around the table.
Dylan Silver (08:40)
like to ask you if we can get a little bit granular on New Hampshire real estate. I don’t know too much about the market out there. there a lot of you know, mom and pop investors? Do you see a lot of flippers? Or is it more you know, year to year leases? You know, are people doing short term rentals? What do you see a lot of interest as far as from that mom and pop investor?Tim Lewis (09:01)
So there’s definitely in the rental environment, there’s a massive need for more housing. I also have a 105 unit portfolio that I run with my business partners. What we’re finding is that the rents are kind of capped. We can’t go higher on rents. There’s enough scarcity that we could, but people can’t afford it. We are kind of at that tipping point.There’s a need for more affordable housing. I think a lot of that is driven by the fact that ⁓ a lot of the rentals in my area, particularly in the Lake Santa Fe region, most of the rentals around here are single family homes. There’s not a lot of apartment buildings or even multi-family homes to pick from. So when that short-term rental boom came in, a lot of people converted their single family year-round rentals to short-term rentals. And now they’re kind of switching to the midterm rentals.
Dylan Silver (09:48)
Yeah.Tim Lewis (09:59)
We’re about minutes from Dartmouth Hospital, which is one of the best hospitals in the country. So there’s a massive turnover of traveling nurses in the area here. And they can just get ridiculous stipends and they’ll pay it all up front for a three to six month stay. So ⁓ the investing market and the rental market in New Hampshire is very strong. ⁓ Even the section eight and ⁓ the housing voucher programs. ⁓We realized recently that we were actually undercharging our rents compared to what the state said that they would pay for one, two or three bedroom apartments. So it’s a very strong industry, but there’s a lot of scarcity and there’s not a lot of opportunity. There’s not a lot of sellers of those investment properties. It’s hard to find anything bigger than a duplex or a triflex on the market.
Dylan Silver (10:49)
You mentioned that there’s not a lot of like what you would consider like commercial residential apartment complexes. Is that because there’s pushback from residents not wanting those type of developments in their town? Or is that because the deals don’t underwrite? It’s gonna cost X amount of dollars to build these properties and it’s gonna have this timeline and it just doesn’t work on paper.Tim Lewis (11:48)
I think it’s really a case by case basis to those two situations that you just mentioned there definitely happened in different cities where we own our portfolio in Claremont. It’s an old mill city and the city has the state built out a couple of times the city can’t get out of its own way. But we have a 43 unit building that’s in the historic district. That whole ground floor, any first level space that you have in the historic district has to be retail.But then people can’t bring retail back to the area because pretty much everything has moved towards Dartmouth. ⁓ And then anything that’s, there’s a lot of historic zonings like that in towns all over the state and it becomes a very, it’s just massed in red tape to be able to do anything. ⁓ We have, like Brady Sullivan’s a huge conglomerate. They’re the largest mill owner in New England. ⁓ Chittenden or Chittenberg, whatever. I can’t remember how his name’s spelled, but he’s the second largest mill owner.
These guys have the secret sauce to be able to do these historic conversions. But there’s these massive buildings in these old mill towns that everyone, we can underwrite the deal, but then the city just masks it in red tape and you have to go through three years of permitting and zoning and all of this stuff just to be able to put one apartment in there. ⁓
Dylan Silver (13:07)
Yeah, that could be.very challenging. can understand, know, I’m honestly both sides. can understand people wanting to preserve a feel, a vibe, the historic nature, especially in New England, right? But I also understand, you know, that’s going to affect investors. Does this make it so that, you know, there’s more quote unquote mom and pop investors who may be doing smaller deals, but more of them? Or does it make it so that like there’s just fewer people investing in real estate?
Tim Lewis (13:21)
Absolutely.Well, there’s definitely fewer people up here. ⁓ I would say that when you’re looking at demographics, more of it are smaller mom and pop setups. Talking between five and call it 100 units, that’s really the vast majority of the investor population out here. ⁓
Dylan Silver (13:55)
Right.Tim Lewis (14:02)
And then obviously there’s the big conglomerates that own those old buildings and stuff like that. They’re really the players in the big unit mix space, those big commercial spaces. ⁓ But pretty much everything else is just a small stuff.Dylan Silver (14:12)
Now, ⁓When you’re looking at New Hampshire as a whole, are you seeing out of state investors looking at investing in New Hampshire, or is it for the most part people in New Hampshire having an ownership stake, an equity stake in their communities and investing in those communities?
Tim Lewis (14:33)
I will say that there is a lot of interest from out of state, especially with our proximity to New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts. ⁓ Our prices for real estate in New Hampshire compared to ⁓ other parts of the country seem pretty good, especially when you’re looking at the rate of return. ⁓ We sold the building not too long ago ⁓ to a guy from New York.Dylan Silver (14:53)
Yeah.Tim Lewis (15:01)
They think a three to four cap is their expectation for a commercial purchase of that size. Stuff that we see on the market is between a seven and nine cap. So, well, they think they’re getting the deal of a lifetime. That’s just kind of the market out here. Where you have an issue of getting the out of state investors in here is not a lot of people want to sell. It’s hard to come by because a lot of this stuff has kind of been in families for a long time.Dylan Silver (15:14)
Ayo.Tim Lewis (15:31)
⁓ And it passes down and it’s a stable economy out here. It’s a stable market out here. There’s not a lot of reasons that people want to let go of their assets ⁓ when you’re talking about that, the residential rental side of things.Dylan Silver (15:45)
Are there any, if folks are looking at investing in New Hampshire and they might not be familiar with the area, are there any markets or emerging markets that you’re particularly bullish on where if you had to say, hey, if you’re looking at investing in New Hampshire, I might take a look at this area.Tim Lewis (16:45)
Absolutely. the, you know, I’ll touch on the safe markets first. two major population centers are Nashville and Manchester, New Hampshire. That’s where most investors are going to play their cards. The, I will say that I made about 60 % of my revenue last year. Well, I guess for 2024, 60 % of my revenue came through Rochester. The, the Stratford County area.at borders main, where there’s a really strong short term midterm rental market. ⁓ And it’s right above Dover, ⁓ Dover and Portsmouth, which is one of the more ⁓ tourist attraction areas. then, so I’m real bullish on that Stratford County, particularly in Rochester and surrounding surrounding towns. And then my, my kind of ace in the hole is I’m always I want to invest around lakes. ⁓ That’s where money comes in from out of state.
That’s what people want to buy second homes. That’s where there’s a lot of old money. ⁓ There’s typically aging demographics there where people are going to be closer to selling. ⁓ So those lakes tend to be more retirement communities. There tends to be more money there. ⁓ So I stay out of a lot of the big metro areas, if you can call anything in New Hampshire a big metro area. But ⁓
I really like those aging demographics with the old money. I’ve always said I want to buy the worst house in the best neighborhood. And most of the best, quote unquote, neighborhoods in New Hampshire are close to the wall.
Dylan Silver (18:25)
I want to ask you this is a question really coming from my experience living in Texas and working with investors in Texas and as a realtor. You know, it’s interesting because in Texas when it gets cold things break. Right. But New England, you know, you have to be prepared for the cold because it’s like freezing cold three quarters of the year. HowTim Lewis (18:38)
Yeah.Dylan Silver (18:47)
difficult or lack thereof, is the cold on investment properties in general? this something that investors are year to year worried about things breaking? is there a much, much, much higher winterization process and standards from the onset of construction to where you really don’t have to worry about that down the line?Tim Lewis (19:11)
Well, coming from somebody that used to build new homes, they’re built to withstand our winters. That being said, absolutely stuff breaks. ⁓The, you know, when you’re talking about flipping a, some of the challenges that come up in the winter, especially with the snow that we had this year, like if you’re going to look at a property that you might want to flip, the snow can be really challenging because you’re not going to see what the landscaping looks like. You’re not going to see if they have piles of trash under the snow. You don’t know what the roof looks like for the most part. You’re kind of just going off somebody’s word or maybe you can get some type of a building permit for when that roof had been replaced. ⁓ Ice damming is a big thing for folks that.
are familiar with ice status, it’s basically you get some melt off of a roof ⁓ and that starts to freeze over and it creates this massive amount of ice that can work up under your shingles and damage your roof and create a leak inside. ⁓
As far as preventative maintenance from the buy and hold side of things, there’s always state inspections for furnaces. You always want to make sure that you are, if a house is going to remain vacant in your winter hours, if you get the flushing mode, the systems of any standing water so you don’t have any burst pipes. And then you want to find good tradesmen that will come and service all of your mechanicals and make sure that everything is set up to not break in the middle of the winter.
It’s not, it’s never a foolproof thing. We are religious with the maintenance of our buildings. ⁓ but I just had two, two pigeons flying to our exhaust pipe and we had to evacuate a building. You know, there’s things will happen, but the, the right, the right actions will produce the best results. So do your maintenance, do your inspections, ⁓ spend the money you don’t want to spend to make sure that it’s not going to break and create a bigger headache for you. That’s, that’s my advice for it.
Dylan Silver (20:46)
Can’t control.Yeah, I mean.
That’s a great point, right? And especially, you know, I’m thinking again of Texas brain here, people will often like delay the roof, right? Until it’s like the last possible minute. Well, now you’ve got like a caved in roof. That’s, you know, a much greater issue because this could be causing, especially with water and everything, tons of damage to the home versus repair or replace it earlier on. And I think in general, and especially with your background in construction, it seems like roofs are lasting
Tim Lewis (21:23)
Alright.Dylan Silver (21:32)
less long particularly in the Sun Belt. I don’t know if that’s true carte blanche but that does seem to be the case so you know maintenance should not be deferred. I agree with you there. We are coming up on time here though Tim. Any new projects that you’re working on and then as well what’s the best way for folks to get in contact with with you or your team?Tim Lewis (21:52)
Yeah, I’m always working on something. I’ve a couple of wholesale deals on the pipeline right now. I’ve got a couple of flips that are scheduled to close. I have some assets up for sale. You can check out Downtown Realty. We do have a couple of our buildings up for sale. I always plug the NHREA, New Hampshire Real Estate Investors Association.It’s a great organization if you ever find yourself in New Hampshire on the second Wednesday of the month. So we meet down in Manchester at a brewery, great local brewery. can have some local New Hampshire beer and talk to other investors. It’s a great resource for anyone looking to get into the industry or even establish people in the industry. And then can find me at my website is bricknoteproperties.com. You can find me on Instagram at brick.oak and you can look me up at brickandoakproperties
on Facebook as well.
Dylan Silver (22:49)
Tim, thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for joining us.Tim Lewis (22:53)
Thank you, Dylan.
