How Texas Tax Loans Put Real Estate Investors First in Line | Andy Moon

Andy Moon (00:00)
I looked at his model and I was floored that this exists. You step in front of everybody. If you make somebody a tax loan, you step in front of everybody. You step in front of the IRS, you step in front of the first lien mortgage holders, you step in front of the HOA, you step in front of all those stupid abstracts of judgment. All of that stuff you step in front of. And if you have to foreclose on that person, it wipes all those people out. easier said than done. It’s not an easy process. and one thing that we really do focus on is helping homeowners keep more of their equity.

Issa Hanna (01:02)
Welcome back to another episode of the Real Estate Pros Show. I’m your host, Issa Hanna, and today we have Andy Moon here to share his knowledge. Andy, welcome to the show.

Andy Moon (01:09)
Hey, thanks for having me. I have a lot to say, man. Hey, here we are. So it’s Tuesday, by the way. I want everybody needs to know it’s Tuesday and that foreclosure auctions are going on right now down in Bexar County. So as soon as I’m done with this, I’m racing down there.

Issa Hanna (01:23)
That’s hilarious. And you know what? We were going to lean into that. You’re a tax foreclosure investor. how to get the best deals. you’re out of my home state, down in Texas. so I kind of wanted you to share and thank you, first of all, because I do know how important these days are to you guys. so I thank you for taking the time out to talk to us. But for my viewers at home, can you kind of give us a rundown of your day-to-days and then what you’re focused on right now, currently?

Andy Moon (01:47)
Yeah, absolutely. So we talked about it a little bit off air, but we were talking about I’m an attorney. So a lot of what I do is I’m I’m fixing people’s problems. And when you’re fixing people’s problems, you don’t have time to be an investor. But one of the things you said right when you started was we are a tax foreclosure investor. That is actually not what we do. And it’s a little bit nuanced. If you go down to the foreclosure auction and you’re looking at properties. A lot of times you have a list that you’ve researched, you get down there and half of them on aren’t on that list. So you’re confused why that stuff’s not coming up. That’s because I got to it first or my team got to it first. That’s what we do. We do tax delinquencies. Right. And so right now, today, I don’t know if I’m gonna blow the lid off this thing or not, but today’s October sixth. Five days ago, October first, taxes came due. Everybody thinks they’re delinquent February first. That’s not the case. Our Super Bowl starts October one because now I’m trying to get to everybody because on October two, if you didn’t pay your taxes, they’re delinquent. You’re not penalized for it, but they’re due, they’re past due. I can start stepping in. I can make those guys tax loans, which is what we focus our day on. So answering your question about what my day looks like. Last night, I finished up at one o’clock in the morning reviewing titles. So I did title from about 7 p.m. last night to 1 p.m. this morning. now I don’t do the titles. I’ve got other team members that do the titles, but nothing goes out of our office without an attorney reviewing it. So every attorney that’s on the team will review titles. I reviewed probably about 34 releases of liens last night for approval to send over to our client to get signed. and then I went to bed, got up. And first thing I did this morning when I walked in, we’re dealing with some litigation. So I got with the litigation team. We talked about our plan for we got two cases coming up this week, another case next week. What I’m doing right now is physically trying to figure out how to remove myself from the day-to-day operations of that business in order to focus more on our Drone Strike program. I think we’ll talk about in a bit. But really what we do is. We try to make your life miserable at the auction because we already got those properties locked up in some way, shape, or form. It doesn’t have to be that we purchased it. It can’t just be that we made the person a loan, took care of their taxes, and now we’ve stepped into the shoes of the county. And that’s essentially what we do. Now the investors that work with us benefit from those deals that come delinquent. They also benefit from the deals that come in where the person doesn’t want to loan, they really just need to sell the property. so yeah, That’s kind of my day to day what I do.

Issa Hanna (04:15)
amazing. And what? You’re right. I talked to tax foreclosure investors and and you are the guy that gets to them before. You figured out the route to basically get these and like you said, step into the role of the county. I mean, how unbelievable. And then you’ve now become the source that a lot of investors go to. We talked before, there’s a big investor that we that we’ve come across here in Texas that we share in common. and you’re the guy he goes to for a lot of his deals. So unbelievable. unbelievable. And I kinda wanted to lean in now to the to what you want to focus on. ’cause you’ve got something cooking, man, that is literally revolutionary. So take the floor and tell us about Drone Strike.

Andy Moon (04:54)
Man, it’s I don’t know if we have enough time for this. This part one, okay. so I have a business partner. My business partner was a systems analyst for the military. He actually built, was on a team that built the personnel database. And while he was in the military, he started doing mortgage lending. And doing mortgage lending led him to investing. So he goes out and starts doing the same thing you guys are all doing right now. Going out and researching these deals, going out to the courthouse and being frustrated. So he said, How do I get a beyond that? Right. So he started researching how are these people doing it? He looked at the tax code, he tried to figure it out. And then he discovered that, hey, I can step in and just make these loans. Well, it’s not as easy as that, right? it’s heavily regulated. So he had to he was a mortgage lender at the time. So he was able to go out. And find investors that were in that market space that had the licenses. He went over to work for them. In doing that, he discovered, a whole nother world in the tax lending space. But what he also discovered was he had millions of leads, let’s say two million leads a month. He can only market to about 120,000 of those people. that’s a capacity issue, both on the finances and order marketing dollars. And just how many calls can you take in, right? the return on their actual mail pieces that they send out is about three times the average amount. So get a ton of returns. But he sat down with me probably in 2011. I looked at his model and I was floored that this exists. You step in front of everybody. If you make somebody a tax loan, you step in front of everybody. You step in front of the IRS, you step in front of the first lien mortgage holders, you step in front of the HOA, you step in front of all those stupid abstracts of judgment. All of that stuff you step in front of. And if you have to foreclose on that person, it wipes all those people out. easier said than done. It’s not an easy process. and one thing that we really do focus on is helping homeowners keep more of their equity. So we’re very honest with them of you need to sell. You need to get out of this thing. Of course, if you’ve got three million dollars in tax liens, it doesn’t really matter. Just take your $22,000 ad valorem tax transfer and just stay in the house as long as you can, right? And we’ll wipe out the IRS when we need to. but yeah, the frustration that my partner had was how do we get to these two million people on a monthly basis? We sat and we game planned all kinds of stuff together. And he sold his company in 2013, sold it out to a bigger company. And in 20, I guess it was 2014, I called him up and had lunch with him. And he was just telling me kind of the frustrations of going and working with another group. They were having the same problems, but no one was doing anything about getting to the people. So I started game planning again with him. And in 2016, we Basically started to launch the company 2017. We actually launched. 2018, he came on board with me. So I was up and running for about a year before he came on board. God, this is boring for people I haven’t listened to, but it’s gonna get exciting. so what basically what we did was we were at the airport and I saw a guy pull up in an Uber. And I go, how dumb it would be if an Uber driver pulled up and then another Uber driver pulled up and they tried to pick up the same passenger. In real estate, that’s what we do. We’re all going and knocking on the same damn door. Why don’t we take all of your leads, throw them in a bucket, and then we go to the investor and say, What kind of leads do you want? And we’ll hand them a lead one by one. And when we hand you that lead, it takes it out of the bucket for everybody else. So what we did is we built a software that was called Boots on the Ground. And Boots on the Ground, everything, by the way, is a military. term right now he’s military but I like the military terminology because that’s exactly what we do is he said to me we need boots on the ground and then it’s just a term of art everybody just says we need salespeople out in the field, right? And I was like boots on the ground that’s a great name for an app so we built this app we started October of twenty nineteen and we sat down we whiteboarded it out I mean we had we actually bought a second whiteboard just so we could have enough space for it and I’m So low tech, right? But we whiteboarded it. I built it in PowerPoint. So basically in PowerPoint, you could click on stuff and then we hired the guys to come in and actually build it to where it actually worked, right? But the idea, the big idea was when you take a lead, it blocks it out of the system for everybody else. So now we’re able to say, hey, he said, if you want to go do 20 properties this month, you can do it. If some other guy wants to do one, he can do it. But he’s not buying a big list. He’s not wasting his time. And then if somebody’s a real go-getter, they can buy three, four hundred leads at a time, right? And they can go have fun with that. Well, we launched that, I believe it was March 13th of 2020. So we were selling a door-to-door app two days before we went home and stopped the spread, right? So, all right, we can survive two weeks. We’ve spent all this money, all this investment. We’ll wait two weeks. two weeks comes and goes, people still aren’t knocking on doors. we were having seminars to sell this to real estate investors. All the seminars were dead. Nobody was having them. so we were kind of dead in the water, so to speak. The beauty of Texas is there were some counties that didn’t know there was a pandemic going on. So we survived in those counties, right? one of my favorite stories, we had a guy who was literally homeless who saw our app. while we were demoing it for somebody else. We’re in the front yard of a property. He’s mowing the guy’s grass. And he goes, Hey man, can I do that? I go, you got any real estate experience? He said, no. I said perfect. So we taught him how to use the app. He went knocking on doors. Now what a lot of people don’t know in Texas, if you’re over 65 or if you’re disabled and you own primary residence, you can prevent the government from foreclosing on you and taking that property. Also You lock in your interest and penalties at 5% a year. He didn’t know that. He heard us tell somebody that. His uncle lost his house and he was over 65, lost it to taxes. He said, had he known that he could have kept his house, I’d be living in his house. I wouldn’t be living in my car. Right. So his motivation was not to do real estate. His motivation was to spread the word. Every day he went and knocked on doors until he found one person. That he could convert and get them their deferrals. We do deferrals for people all the time, almost every day for free. if you’re entitled to it, we’re gonna help you get it. He made $18,000 in six weeks with zero experience, just with a totally different objective, right? And then he was like, this is amazing. He moved out to California, lived on the beach or something. And then he’s like, wait, I gotta make money. So he came back here and wanted to get back on it. Well. Bad news, we’ve changed directions. We’re doing Drone Strike. what the hell’s Drone Strike? All right, Drone Strike’s cool. So Boots on the Ground, you go knock on door, one person, one kill, right? Then you go to the next one, then you go to the next one. Drone Strike, you sit at your desk like a Drone Strike operator in the military, right? And you’re aiming for all kinds of targets. So same exact concept. All of our tax delinquent data is in there. You’ve got foreclosures. You’ve got lawsuits. You got people that are just behind. And you tell me, is somebody that’s behind by $2,500 or $25,000 more motivated?

Issa Hanna (11:55)
Twenty five thousand for sure. I would say, right?

Andy Moon (11:59)
That’s what you think. You never know what stresses people out. The $2,500 guy might actually be more stressed out than the $25,000 guy. So we tell people, you can go after those high value targets all you want. But we promise you, if you go after some of those low value targets, you’re going to start converting them. Now, here’s what’s beautiful about our system. This is the one thing that sets us apart from everybody else. If you go knock on a door and you say, I want to buy your property, and they say no. What happens?

Issa Hanna (13:04)
Say no, you got to follow up later. but it’s a no for now, right?

Andy Moon (13:07)
That’s right. So if it’s a no for now and I can convert that to a yes, would you be interested?

Issa Hanna (13:12)
Course.

Andy Moon (13:12)
So what we allow you to do is offer them a tax loan. We we’ve already pre-qualified them. We know if they qualified. We’ll step in and take care of that tax loan for them. And get what happens then is that loan now stays in the system tagged to you. It’s in our portfolio. If they fall behind, you’re going to get a message in the system. Hey, Tom Jenkins, that you did a loan for or you referred over for a loan, he’s behind by 60 days. Needs help, you need to go talk to him. Now, the only people that know about his delinquency are you, me, and Tom Jenkins. So it helps you build a pipeline as an investor. But also, on top of that, there’s not a lot of money in tax lending because the origination fees are next to nothing and you’re capped by law. And that’s why not a lot of people are in the industry. What we do though is we’ll give you a $25 system credit. To buy more leads. That’s about right now, that’s about 18 more leads that you can buy. You should be able to convert every single person you communicate with into either a purchase, a listing, which is another option you have in Drone Strike. You can just refer it over to a realtor and they’ll sell it for you and you get a referral fee on that. If you are a realtor and you’re using the system, you get the listing yourself and you don’t have to pay any kind of commission or anything. And then Obviously the tax loan you’ve got right in the middle, but when you’re calling them, you’re trying to purchase the property. But if you have to pivot and say, let me get take care of this taxes for you. The other thing is if you’re a realtor and you’re gonna list the property, you’re smart to come bring them to us as a tax loan. So we can take that off the board. So one of the first things you do as a realtor, if you’re working for a buyer, you go and you try to look up the taxes. Well, if you see that they have a bunch of taxes delinquent, you’re gonna lowball them. But if you have a tax loan, most people won’t see that. And so they go, taxes are paid, everything’s good. And you’re going to get a higher offer. So we offer all of those things. The last thing we have in there, which please don’t click on it, is referral to attorney. if they have title problems, you can refer them over to our office. We’ll help them out. we do everything on a flat rate basis. We try not to gouge anybody. I talked to somebody the other day. Affiddative of heirship, an attorney charged them $4,000 for it. And so, are you kidding me? We charge $250. And then the next guy is like, my title company only charged $150. Well, yeah, but you probably had to track down the person and get all the information, right? We’ll even do that portion. For us, it’s not a big deal to help you with that portion and try to get your title cleared up. So we can get your title cleared up. We may even be able to help you with another type of loan if it’s not a tax loan that you want to do. But it’s just huge ecosystem. We also we are partnered up with Capital Title of Texas. So we move all of our deals over there. You’re not you don’t have to use Capital Title. that just is who our law firm works with. And so that’s our default title company. But yeah, that’s it, man. that’s it in a nutshell. I don’t know if I could have narrowed down any better, but let me go one step further. Let’s go one step further because you actually said something. If they say no, it’s a no for now and you got to follow up later, right? It’s this is this system is a full CRM. You can now create drip campaigns to go to those people. And every seven days we update the data. So you’ll be able to see a grid of all your leads. You’ll be able to see people that have had tax changes up, down. We’ll give you the dollar amounts and the percentages. So you can say, Hey, this guy’s going up, up, up. We need to contact him. He needs to do something. Or hey, these 500 people are going up, up, up. Click on all 500 of them, one click, send them into your sales funnel and start turning those guys into a deal. so yeah, that’s what we do. It is in beta test right now. So we’ve been in beta probably since April 1st. we launched a version of this last November. I hated it. I did not like anything about it. And I had to make the hardest decision as a CEO I’ve ever made. I said, scrap it, pull everybody off the project. We had the same developers that were working on Waze and the Google developers. I said, pull them all off. And the guy says, if we pull them all off, and you say tomorrow you want to start, it’s gonna take six months before I can put them back on your project. Pull them all off. The next day I hired an in-house coder. So my partner and I both have amateur coding skills, right? so I hired an in-house developer. About two weeks later, I meet this guy who’s an in-house developer for another group. I hire him to come over. We now have two in-house developers. I said, all right, y’all are gonna build this and it’s gonna be badass. And so for four or five months, that’s what we did. We built it, tied into all of our systems, because we have seven total. software programs that we haven’t talked about that are not related to real estate at all. Right. So I’ve I mean I have the loan origination platform, a servicing platform. the law firm has its own platform as well that we’ve all these things we’ve built. So now we got to make them all jive and work together. So that for that next four or five months, that’s what we did. So now we’re in that beta launch. we’ve got 51 people that are signed up kind of using beta right now. we’re looking to we’re gonna cap it probably at 2500 users total. So we’ll see what that ends up with. when you get in, by the way, you get assigned a phone number. You put you we ask you to create a new Gmail account where everything communicates back and forth between that system. You use your cell phone to communicate with people, but it goes through our system so you don’t have to give people your regular cell phone number. we will be able to track your phone calls and your text messages. One thing we’d like to provide in the future is either an answering service or an AI answering service. That’s something we haven’t built in yet. that way you don’t miss any deals. But it’s just going to get bigger and better as we go. But the key, what is the investor feel in it? It’s the data, it’s the leads. And we know that’s our most important and most valuable asset. Is the leads that we generate on a weekly basis. man, you let me talk for too long. I feel like you’re psychic like a therapist over there. Just let me vent.

Issa Hanna (18:55)
what? I am literally flabbergasted by this app because you’re making first of all, you’re one of the few people in the country that knows this process of investing, that knows how to step in front of even the tax investors, right? Get the tax loans, all that stuff. But you’re taking your philosophy, you’re bringing it to the masses with Drone Strike. you’re getting these leads white hot, you’re making it so easy. Every great inventor of our time, whether it was Tesla or Elon Musk nowadays, right? They figure out how to make things easy and they figure out how to just let the masses get something accessible to the masses. You guys have figured this out totally. I mean, 100% in the investor space with Drone Strike. I mean, everybody wants better deals, better leads, responsive leads. All that good stuff and you guys got it all under one app, man. I mean it’s just truly unbelievable. dude, how you guys have been able to do that. that’s why I

Andy Moon (20:27)
I like what you said. Yeah, I like what you said about easy, right? one thing we didn’t mention is it’s when you get to the purchase agreement, if the person says, Yeah, I want to sell, all you have to do is put in your number and click go. It sends them the contract. It’s all built in because I’m the attorney, right? I’ve already built that contract in for you. All you need is the number because the data’s all in it. And yeah, you can crank that out. but what triggered me when you said easy. What I’ve learned about people that are tax delinquent is they don’t make good decisions, they make easy decisions. And you gotta make it easy for them too, right? It’s not just making it easy for yourself. Make it easy for that person to make a decision, make it easy for that person to execute, and they will do it. I mean, every one of these loans that we do, it’s zero money down, depending on how bad off they are. Sometimes they will have a down payment requirement, but it is very, very rare. You don’t pay any closing costs. You don’t pay anything. And so, hey, I can take care of your taxes. By the way, how much do you think the tax penalty is per year in Texas? What’s the total tax penalty?

Issa Hanna (21:27)
I’m not even sure.

Andy Moon (21:28)
So it goes by code, it can be up to 42.3%, I believe is the number everybody goes with. So there’s a penalty that hits in February and then a big penalty that hits in July. The penalty that hits in July, that’s where they really hit you because that’s the attorney’s fees. So Linebarger, who’s, you got a collection agent, Linebarger, McCreary, Perdue Brandon, those are kind of the three bigs. Those guys don’t get paid until a loan’s Or a tax delinquent to July one. Once it’s July 1, they get their fee. So you may think you’re safe because in April, May you haven’t been sued by the county. No, no. It’s coming, right? It’s coming. Once they can add their fee, it’s coming. also, a court just ruled that the attorneys for the counties or for the entities can charge their normal attorney’s fees or the statutory penalty fee. But they can’t do both. Well, Harris County, for instance, you may have six, seven, eight different districts that collect. They don’t all collect through the tax assessor. They all collect through their individual districts. So a water district and a school district and a MUD, all those guys can sue you and they can add all their traditional fees if they want to and really run up a bill. So It is a very easy decision for people when you sit down and say, hey, you need to do this tax loan. it’s not a bad deal. They’ll end up going and maybe making a deal with the county to do a payment arrangement. Guess what? I can spread your payment out over 10 years. They’re gonna spread your payment out over eight to 12 months. Right. I definitely can make it easier for. And by the way, if you can pay it off in eight months, no penalty, right? I think our industry definitely got a black eye for a long time. And we’re trying to reverse the way that works because if you really give people that education of what it is that they’re dealing with and what they’re gonna be facing, you can help them quite a bit.

Issa Hanna (23:15)
Hundred percent. I think the black eye came from people just, not paying these tax loans. But if you really think about it, you’re getting this spaced out over multiple years, not like you said, not just a year, a few months, whatever it is. and you’re taking care of a problem right away. The only person that you’re gonna know is the person that made the loan. so I love that you guys are clearing it up. I love that you’re bringing integrity to the To this space too, right? The way that you talked about, hey, we’ll help you out, we’ll clear up your title. You’re the type of guy that we want in this space, right? The black eye came from guys that maybe, were a little bit too hard on in this and that, but man, you’re bringing in such great judgment to it. Drone Strike is just such a phenomenal app. I kind of want to ask you now your five year plan. I look you up, Andy, in five years. Where am I gonna see you?

Andy Moon (24:03)
so some of that is probably top secret information. the funny part is my daughter graduates in five years. So I’m gonna be empty nest in five years, and things are gonna change quite a bit for me on a personal level. really what we wanna do is Texas and Nevada are the only two states in the country. that have this type of lending rule. What’s beautiful about that, Texas and Nevada were the last two to go into the crisis and the first two to come out of the crisis in 08, out of the recession. And I think that’s because they allow private industry to invest in government funding. That’s what we’re doing is we’re funding the government because if they don’t collect those ad valorem taxes, where are they getting them from? They have to get them from us. So we come in and fund that for them. What that means is I would like to go to other states and advocate for this type of lending. I’ve got a couple of states picked out, but Florida and New York are the two that have come closest to passing this type of legislation. If you go to Georgia and you want to buy tax delinquent properties, you have to put in like 10 to 20 million dollar bids to buy big pools of delinquent taxes. that eliminates all the small dollar investors that want to come in. So by adding this opportunity, you’re allowing people to come in and physically invest in the local infrastructure, put real dollars to work in the local communities. and you’re not basically letting all the BlackRocks in, right? Which I don’t know. I don’t have a problem with BlackRock. So just so anybody wants to like blast me for that. I they’ve built something awesome and they’re doing their thing, right? but I’m a small business owner, we’re putting 30 to 40 million dollars, to work. I can’t afford to go and buy a bunch of those portfolios. The other thing is if you buy those portfolios, you buy the good with the bad. So if you have somebody that’s tax deferred, you have to buy that. In Texas, what we do is we underwrite every single deal. Right. It may be a $12,000 loan. We’re gonna put way too much time and effort and energy into it. But that’s the way it works. And we may find that person’s over 65. We may find that person’s disabled. And hey, got a better deal for you. I just did one, I had to go drive down to Beeville and handle one about a week ago. This guy called me up and he said he’s losing this house. And we helped him clear his title up three years ago, but he didn’t take a loan from us. We just cleared his title, charged him $250. and then here he comes, he’s losing his house. Like, how are you losing your house? What’s going on? Aren’t you over 65 or disabled? And he’s like, Yeah, but they won’t give me my exemption. I had to physically drive down there, walk into the office, get the thing done, and then I had to go file the plea and abatement in the court. And I did all that for him. I think I charged him 750 bucks. And it was definitely not worth my time. But I always told my mom when I got into law, one thing I never want to say is it’s not worth my time. Right. Or you’re not worth my time. I hate that. It drives me nuts. I leave my office door open all day. I would rather people come in and bother me all day and work all night than to leave them lingering with a question. And so I’ve always just kind of operated that way. And so I don’t mind going to doing those deals. Right. But my five year plan is to launch this in other states. we’d really like to see Florida convert. We’d like to see New York convert because those are obviously two big States. Nevada has it, but there’s really only two counties in Nevada where there’s property. it’s a pretty small market, which I don’t mind going and doing it out there, but it’s really hard to launch out there and get active. going back to the black eye in the industry thing that we talked about, in Texas, up until 2013, I believe it was, tax foreclosures were nonjudicial. Just like you do a mortgage foreclosure, you just have some, yokel like myself going up there and calling it off, standing off in the corner of the square. And you get there and there’s 20 guys doing it. Now it’s a judicial process, and that means the sheriff’s gonna be doing the sale. I think that was a big problem. And I don’t know. I haven’t looked at Nevada’s laws. But I think they still have a non-judicial process out there. So that may be the next one. But I think it’s just Clark County and Henderson County, maybe that are the two. and I think wherever Lake Tahoe is, there’s Reno, there’s some product.

Issa Hanna (28:08)
Not there yet.

Andy Moon (28:09)
Everything else is alien country, right? So if you want to learn how to reverse engineer UFO, we can do a tax loan for you. But yeah, that’s the five-year plan is to launch this in other states. We do plan on adding to Drone Strike. because what I one thing I didn’t mention is we skip trace everything and we you can skip trace it up to every 30 days. So if it’s not refreshed, you can refresh it and look for new data. and it also scrubs against the do not call list. So if they are on the do not call, it’s gonna tell you, hey, these guys want to do not call, you can’t call. But we’re gonna add mortgage data to that. We’re at we’re planning to add credit card data and automobile data so you can see their true outlook of what they’re dealing with and help them even more. Right. So if they’re behind with their mortgage and it’s just a temporary fix to do the taxes, we’re gonna help them try to find a new solution there. And then if they have if they’re behind on their car and they’re about to lose the car and The credit cards are crazy. We may tell them, hey, I’ll bankruptcy. Like this get you in bankruptcy. Let’s wipe some stuff out. Let’s start over. Bankruptcy is not a bad thing, and sometimes it’s desperately needed. you don’t want to abuse it, but that that’ll be something that we’re gonna add, but it’ll give you a lot better picture into somebody. Then the next step, this is part of the five year plan, is we plan to roll it out to all 50 states. So once we once we’re able to get a good groundswell in Texas and start finding the kind of our footing here and dominate Texas, then we’ll roll out to other states. Obviously, we wouldn’t be able to offer the tax lien incentive until those laws pass. So that’s where we’re at, man. Five years, we’ll see what happens.

Issa Hanna (29:41)
I love that man. trying to get the legislation changed because somebody with your knowledge sees that it can help the small guy, right? If you change this law, the small guys and not just the BlackRocks can get in and start buying these things and start getting into this space. Like you said, no hate on the BlackRock people. They’ve got a great business model. They can afford to take the wins. They can also afford to take massive losses. So small guys can’t. So we’re not in the same market or level, but you’re making it available. You’re trying to make it available for the small guy to get in here. and that’s the American dream, man, right? to be able to get in there and create wealth. And that’s what you’re doing. True Texan. I wanna I want to say this because Texas is my home state. You’re bringing that Texas integrity to this kind of business, man. I just want to highlight that.

Andy Moon (30:26)
man, this is gonna hurt your feelings, man. I’m from Oklahoma. But okay, what I would tell you, I took French in high school because I was like, when will I ever use Spanish? I never thought I would go south of the Red River. And my first job offer was in Dallas. And I said, Yeah, I’m gonna go take it. Right. And I’d interviewed for a bunch of stuff in Florida and I came back and I had worked for Disney before. So that’s a whole nother life. But yeah. I was a character, if anybody wants to know, because I know that’s bothering everybody, but I was a character at Disney World. And then I went to law school. And I was like, I got offered a manager job to stay at Disney. And I was like, man, I got a whole nother plan. and I really honestly like every day when I’m like dealing with a difficult judge or a difficult attorney on their side. I’m like, I wish I would have taken that damn job and danced around in a costume for the last 30 years. That’d been a lot more fun. but yeah, integrity wise though. Oklahoma and Texas are pretty, pretty much the same, right? but my dad definitely was an integrity guy. And he told me, he said if he saw a hundred dollar bill on the ground, he wouldn’t pick it up unless he thought he dropped it. And, it was just one of those things that was kind of ingrained in you. And then my partner, he’s definitely very much the same way. he’s a Hispanic guy. And so his family is very tight-knit. And he will go broke to help everybody else out. I mean, it’s a really bizarre thing to see. and I think we he and I have both sacrificed quite a bit running this business over the last 10 years. we got to believe that it’s gonna benefit our families in the long run. But my kids are already seeing the integrity. my one daughter is in business school in college, and she’s calling me every day for advice. And they were on group projects, and now her friends are starting to call me and ask me for advice. So They know, where to turn to and it’s they’re learning by example. So we’re creating something bigger for the future. So it’s pretty exciting.

Issa Hanna (32:08)
Man, it’s super exciting. I mean, honor having you on the show. the wealth and knowledge you just brought on our show, amazing. you talk to a lot of guys that buy the tax liens. You’re over here not only doing it for yourself, but showing people and Drone Strike, the common investor can now do exactly what you’re doing and step in and take that first priority. tax loans, you you’re cleaning up the image on it, you’re helping people in Texas and Nevada and then you’re changing legislation. You have plans to change legislation.

Andy Moon (32:38)
Try it. Try it, man.

Issa Hanna (32:40)
Shout out Oklahoma for producing Such a Great American.

Andy Moon (32:43)
I’ll let him know.

Issa Hanna (32:45)
Yeah, politics is it looks like it’s in your next or your near future.

Andy Moon (32:49)
I can’t tell you how many times people have asked me to run for office. And I’m like, man, there’s nothing I would rather not do. that just sounds so miserable. And I mean, you can’t do anything right. Like I live with three women. I can’t do anything right already. I know what it’s like to be a politician,

Issa Hanna (33:03)
Hundred percent. You gotta walk on eggshells. I as a guy who grew up with three little sisters. yeah, it’s rough, man. It’s rough, So

Andy Moon (33:10)
you were the enforcer, huh?

Issa Hanna (33:11)
I was the enforcer. I was the big brother. living at home with a man, yeah, you gotta walk on eggshells. so you’d actually be a good politician with that kind of background coming from that from the three women family, man. what to say, how to keep people happy, and family man. I love that you brought up family multiple times though, because that is the most important thing. A future for your kids, a legacy for your name i is super important. And Andy, I know a hundred percent you you’re not only built such a legacy, but man, you’re building your legacy for generations are gonna remember what you’ve done. unbelievable.

Andy Moon (33:45)
I like how you brought up legacy. I want to ask you something since we got you here. we’ve talked about quote unquote selling out, right? we’ve talked to some big money guys and that’s of interest just to make life easier. But what we’ve been looking for is we’ve been looking for a legacy investor. And we’ve actually found probably three in the last year that are people that physically want to buy the. business, but want us to stay in and run it. And that’s what we want. And so we’ve been looking for that. And we’ve actually looked for somebody that’ll come in and buy us out, but allow us to reinvest the money back into the business. So they really wouldn’t need the capital to do it. what I’m what I mean is like the capital they would pay us would I we would actually earn it out. Right. And so we’ve actually found more and more people. I don’t know if you’ve seen that as a trend at all, but finding these investors that are not the BlackRocks where they just come and buy you out and then fire, fire everybody. but somebody that comes in and lets you run it, lets you keep your people, and lets you continue to build. so we’re definitely looking for somebody like that. And, if for some reason there’s a legacy investor out there listening to this, we would love to talk to them.

Issa Hanna (34:47)
what, you legacy investors out there that are listening, Investor Fuel, we have quite a few of them as proud members. you guys are listening and your ears perked up. you understand how important Drone Strike is to the investor community. So somebody like me who’s compared to you guys, a low-level investor, ears perked up and understands how important this is. I know you guys do. Also, the integrity. That’s why I kept highlighting it. Somebody you want to deal with right here. he’s bringing honor, integrity, honesty, to a game. He’s cleaning up the image of tax loans. Somebody you want to do business with for sure. I’m gonna give you the floor now though. If they wanted to reach you, if they want to get a hold of you, Andy, how could they reach you?

Andy Moon (35:28)
Man, I’m the worst person at plugging myself. I’ve had fun talking about our business. I’ve had fun talking about our people and my family. But yeah, the best way to reach me is just reach out direct, [email protected]. that’s p-a-n-a-c-e-a lending.com. you can find us at panacealending.com. You can also go to if you want to sign up for Drone Strike, you want to try out the beta version, you’re welcome to try that as well. It’s beta.dronestrike.app. you can go up, go there and log in. It is limited. There’s a limited number of seats available. So if people want to go try out Drone Strike, they can go do that there. I’m gonna tell you right now, it’s beta, right? There’s gonna be glitches. There’s gonna be weird things happen. There’s gonna be things you want to see different. So what we did was we actually have in the lower left hand corner a bug report. You can click in there and there’s four or five different things you can report. But if you want to see something different, You have the power to ask for that right now. And our team is taking care of those requests. If for some reason something doesn’t work out for you, we are 100% going to make it right. it is cheap right now to be able to use because we want people using it. We want people testing it. but you’re our guinea pigs, right? And the goal is not to charge you money and make money off this thing. the goal is to really hone it in and make it perfect for the investors. We need to hear from you guys. We need to hear. what you want to see. If you have any trouble with it, let me know. You’ll be able to contact me easily through Drone Strike. But yeah, beta.dronestrike.app. you can sign up for it today if you want.

Issa Hanna (36:53)
Guys, Andy’s bringing this revolutionary app to our show first, the beta version. Get in on the ground floor, get used to this app, give the feedback. It’s only going to get better and better over time when that final version is released. when these laws are changed in different states, in the last few years, a lot of real estate friendly laws have been passed. So it’s looking that way. This could be the next big thing. You’re hearing it on our show first. Make sure to go beta.dronestrike.app, correct?

Andy Moon (37:22)
That’s right. That’s right.

Issa Hanna (37:23)
beta.dronestrike.app. Go get in, give your feedback, get in before the whole world finds out about it. Get rich before the whole world finds out about it. Andy, thank you so much for coming on the show. I want to invite you back again for a part two if you have us. Part three, your third.

Andy Moon (37:41)
You c as you can tell, I love talking about this stuff. So if it if it’s helpful, if we have anything to talk about, man, I’m more than happy to jump on. it’s, like I said, it’s worth my time a hundred percent to share this information with everybody. And I love hearing feedback from people too. So I’ll end up here getting calls. I’ll probably have some friends out there in the world like, hey, I saw you on that podcast. What’s going on? because I because I’m not that guy. I’m actually pretty quiet and I say that I feel like I’m pretty quiet. I don’t promote myself. why you probably won’t find me on social media. that kind of stuff. But yeah, man, absolutely. Anytime you guys want to talk, if something pops up that’s in our in our vein of business, you are welcome to give me a call and I’ll jump on anytime. You guys are always fun to talk to.

Issa Hanna (38:20)
And you are a wealth of knowledge. I want to thank you again for coming on the show. And then to our viewers, if you enjoyed my conversation with Andy and want to see more, make sure to hit like and subscribe. I talk to people every day that could bring us different knowledge on every aspect of real estate investing. Until next time. The Real Estate Pros are out.