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Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros Podcast, Kristen Knapp interviews Pramod Singh, a real estate investor transitioning to full-time investing. Pramod shares his journey from being a W2 employee to becoming a successful real estate investor, discussing the importance of networking, mentorship, and understanding the numbers in real estate. He details his experiences with his first deal, the challenges faced in multifamily investments, and the significance of time management and outsourcing in scaling his business. Pramod also outlines his future goals for optimizing his real estate operations.
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Pramod Singh (00:00)
So single family is the basic, you know, basic cookie cutter type of deal that will teach you a lot of a lot of things of real estate. And even if you are failing in one or two or that deal was not great, you’re not going to lose your shirt. Right. But multifamily is not like that. Multifamily is just one deal went right. You don’t have to work. And if it doesn’t go right, I mean, you’ll lose everything, whatever you have. Right. So so So going into 78 unit was quite challenging for us. The best part was that, you know, that deal was, I mean, we analyzed it and we skinned the cat, you know, many different ways.Kristen Knapp (02:11)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m Kristen and I’m here with Pramod Singh who is based outside of Chicago and he is a real estate investor who is transitioning to be full time, which is very exciting. So thank you so much for being here.Pramod Singh (02:25)
Thank you.Kristen Knapp (02:25)
You’ve been able to scale to, mean, a lot of doors really quickly. Let’s talk about kind of that impetus of how you got interested in real estate and what made you want to pursue it.Pramod Singh (02:37)
⁓ Yeah, thank you. Great question. ⁓ So basically, when I came to US, about 10 years, I ⁓ was a full-time W2 employee and then it was like, you know, running on a treadmill and I was always thinking it’s such a beautiful country, but I don’t have time to enjoy this place. So what can I do so that I don’t have to work as much and I get some time, redeem some time out for myself and my family.And that’s when I started researching about what are the good avenues because I always heard that, you know, ⁓ US is a land of opportunities, right? And a great place for the entrepreneurs. And this was something I always wanted to be. I never liked the corporate job. I started researching and going to different types of meetups and
people in the same trade. And then I happened to be a couple of ⁓ good friends who basically helped me learn a little bit about the real estate. And then I started doing it.
Kristen Knapp (03:46)
Wow, nice. So you just kind of hopped right in. That’s amazing. How did that feel when you, like, can you think back to your first deal? What did that feel like to actually go for it?Pramod Singh (03:49)
Yes.Yeah, I still remember. know ⁓ one day I was going to
my office and I would always imagine that, know, 8 a.m. in the morning I used to see, you know, all the cars and people are busy rushing to their offices. I would think that, you know, when this rut will end. I mean, I wanted to, I was visualizing myself that, you know, I’m going to see my property and not to work for somebody else. And then that was the, that was the day when I bought my first property and I was going to see that.
And it was a great feeling that I I thought that you know one day it’ll be just the real estate and no more work for somebody else ⁓ And that first property that I bought actually I brought it I bought it out of my credit card because I didn’t have any money ⁓ But it was pretty Exciting a little scary because I didn’t know what I was going to do what it what it was going to What was going to happen?
Actually, it turned out good. I made some money on the first deal. It was a wholesale deal. So then I realized that it has potential. All I had to do is I had to learn more. And that’s when I started networking with other people to see how I can learn it better so that I don’t be, it won’t be a risky deal. mean, that was actually a luck that I made some money. I would have lost all.
Kristen Knapp (05:49)
name.Right.
Yeah, I mean a lot of people lose on their first deal. I would even say most people so that’s awesome that you’re able to do that right away. It definitely keeps you motivated. And I would love for you to kind of continue on that thought of you know mentorship and networking and how that’s really helped you learn the skill set.
Pramod Singh (06:26)
Yep, absolutely. ⁓ then I realized that ⁓ it’s not about real estate itself. ⁓ It is about the numbers, right? You need to have your numbers right. And you need to be very conservative with your numbers because whatever number you put on your paper and you think that it’s a great deal, but something unforeseen will happen. And it has happened with me for all my deals. I mean,Hardly any deal. remember that was so straightforward that, you know, I, you know, it was like, you know, autopilot. Every property comes with challenge, but as long as you know, right, how to, how to handle those challenge, ⁓ that’s when, that’s when, you know, ⁓ you start realizing that, you know, your network is your network, right? And you need to, you need to be very consistent and do not compromise on your basics, right? Like, you know, if you
If you are excited and you are being emotional and taking some decision on your emotion rather than the factual numbers, I mean, there are chances that you will incur into some issues or there will be some mistakes that will become expensive later on. So I started realizing it after second or third deal and I had a partner of mine who helped me initially ⁓ learn the business.
Kristen Knapp (07:38)
worse.Pramod Singh (07:47)
And he helped me analyze the deals, right? And after that, there were great opportunities in the back door itself. And I think it’s true for most part of US where you live. You don’t have to look far out. So basically, I try to go not more than 30 miles from where I live. And I find great opportunities, right? You have to be a little patient.Kristen Knapp (08:12)
Right, no, I think that’s a really good thing to bring up that I think a lot of people, especially when they’re getting started in real estate, want to just jump in right away. And I think patience is really important for getting a good deal. Rushing it is probably one of the worst things you can do. Yeah, so, you know, it really helps also that you’re…Pramod Singh (08:28)
Right, absolutely.Kristen Knapp (08:35)
looking at property right near you. you know that area really well. Can you talk about how important that is to kind of know the ins and outs of where you’re investing?Pramod Singh (08:38)
Yes.So this is very important, especially for the newbies or the people who are not full time into real estate. So they will have very limited time.
And I would always recommend that ⁓ that your property where you are investing, know, first analyze that area very, very well, you know, go a couple of times and see what’s going on in that area. Are there are new constructions, new developments happening? And ⁓ is this area, I mean, changing that you need to really figure it out. ⁓ And then after that ⁓ start slow, don’t just because there are 10 houses, don’t just, know,
you know, buy all 10 and then later on, you know, think that, you know, it will be, I mean, this area is upcoming. Give some time, give some seasonality. And then, and then if you are starting it, you know, like, like me, I was just starting with very little money. So I was very, very dependent on the hard money lenders initially, because I didn’t want to borrow from my friends and families or even
the private money.
The hard money loans were designed for investors like us and with the very conservative numbers, these numbers were at one point I started feeling that similar type of houses I’m doing. So just keep repeating yourself ⁓ and work with a similar type of lender who will not require much after two or three deals from you.
and then things will become more smoother. And then you’ll really know after three or four deals, you’ll really know that, you know, this area, how is this area, how is the rental market, how is the flip market, you know, things like that. And then you can expand a little more if you really want to, you know, just expand a little faster. For me, that was not the choice because I still have a W2M job that I have to spend a few hours here and there. But now we have
gone out of not the state, but we have gone almost two and a or three hours drive. It’s about 120 miles ⁓ from the place where I live and we acquired 78 unit apartment buildings.
Kristen Knapp (11:27)
and then.Wow, that’s amazing. how, mean, transitioning from single family homes to a multi like that, and that’s a lot of units. What mindset shifts or what are different strategies that you have to now use in this new property?
Pramod Singh (11:41)
Yes.So single family is the basic, you know, basic cookie cutter type of deal that will teach you a lot of a lot of things of real estate. And even if you are failing in one or two or that deal was not great, you’re not going to lose your shirt. Right. But multifamily is not like that. Multifamily is just one deal went right. You don’t have to work. And if it doesn’t go right, I mean, you’ll lose everything, whatever you have. Right. So so
So going into 78 unit was quite challenging for us. The best part was that, you know, that deal was, I mean, we analyzed it and we skinned the cat, you know, many different ways.
And we realized that, you know, we have to just work hard. There are challenges that we need to overcome, but we will not be losing any money on this deal, even if we don’t make great money out of it.
So with that mindset, mean, we had very little skin in the game because it was a hundred percent seller finance deal. And we had a good, you know, sort of, you know, contractor crews and, and we had experience and I worked with my partner and my partner is doing this real estate business for almost 30, 35 years and he owns about 50, 60 doors. So, so it was a very calculated risk that we, at that point, we thought that we are ready for this.
Kristen Knapp (12:46)
Thanks.Amazing. that’s a very impressive next step. So as you’re going about this and you’re navigating multifamily, what have been some issues that have kind of popped up that you’ve learned from? ⁓
Pramod Singh (13:23)
wow, everything because what we did, what we did was this, this apartment that we, we acquired, ⁓ it was not cash flowing. And then there were tenants who were not paying. So, so we didn’t just, you know, we acquired something and right away started bleeding money, but we also had to evict lot of tenants. And then from there we had to rehab because this, there were so many deferred maintenance that the owner.Kristen Knapp (13:25)
Yeah.Pramod Singh (13:52)
who sold the units to us, he didn’t do any maintenance. most of the units were on heavy table ⁓ also. So we had to reposition almost all the units.⁓ And then after that city was really I city helped actually, you know, they wanted the area to improve and That’s when they were a little flexible with us and we we told them that you know, we are going to do things right and in a very ⁓ Right way, we are not here to you know, do some shortcuts and and You know don’t work as per the code. So we we did everything we comply with city we comply with ⁓
They are building regulations, their rental regulations and everything. It took us a one year to reposition most of the units and then now we are 70 % occupied back on our feet and we started cash flowing those.
Kristen Knapp (15:32)
Yeah, that must have been stressful in the beginning. How did you even, how’d you keep going with that? I feel like a lot of people would kind of crumble.Pramod Singh (15:40)
Yes, exactly. That’s where you just, you you know, justjust figure out what is the problem and how you’re going to, know, ⁓ every morning is a new morning. And then the problem you had yesterday may not be as relevant today. And that was the mindset for me. ⁓ Like, you know, I was the one who was running, managing and, you know, ⁓ renting. ⁓ Initially, the management was not good. So we had to find another management company to take over. And then ⁓
Kristen Knapp (15:54)
Bye.Pramod Singh (16:12)
It was about two and a half or three hours drive from my place. I used to go almost every week, at least twice. And I had three reliable contractor crews. They were living there and they were working day in, day out, 24 by 7. And not 24 by 7, but at least seven days a week. Eight, 10 hours work. That’s why we were able to went through all 78 units and reposition them all. And they all got approved by city.we started renting them. So it was quite overwhelming, ⁓ taught us a lot ⁓ of multifamily investment tricks and also gave us lot of experience now. Now we exactly know that whatever mistakes we did in this one, we’re not going to repeat that in our next one.
Kristen Knapp (17:02)
Yeah, amazing. you’re juggling all of this. What are some of your time management skills? Because I feel like you’re doing a really good job of scaling up your real estate while also maintaining this full-time job.Pramod Singh (17:14)
yeah, absolutely. mean, thankfully my job is, you know, is not very, very demanding, but at times, I mean, there were, there are days when, whenyou have a lot of work pressure and you have to manage somehow. And you have no one, you cannot complain this to anybody. It is just you. You to figure it out. So you have to hire people who are really good at it. You have to rely on them. And then you have to give them this responsibility. And you just have to manage them. That’s the main thing. Otherwise, if you start doing everything by yourself, you will be burned out completely.
⁓ so yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, there are, there are so many things that had, know, I, had to, we had to, we had to do, my God, it was like 78 units is not a, you know, a kickoff walk. It is quite a humongous task. ⁓ and especially when, when none of these units are producing any rent, you know, you are bleeding money, like, you know, profusely. So, so, so it was the time management, money management, right. And, and
the project management, everything was there.
Kristen Knapp (18:24)
Yeah, and how important is it for you to like outsource some work? Like, you know, good property managers, good contractors, all of that.Pramod Singh (18:32)
Yeah, it is very important, but the most important part is that you need to find those people because not every property manager or a contractor or a crew would be as reliable or per your expectation. And something where I see that, you know, if the team doesn’t have the urgency of time, you know, you are going to lose a lot of money.Kristen Knapp (18:38)
Yeah.Pramod Singh (18:55)
Whatever is important for you may not be important for them, right? I mean they they have they may have a different perspective altogether. Like, mean, we used to have a lot of conflicts with our property managers, but then you have to work with them and you have to, you know, keep fine tuning, keep educating or, you know, educate yourself, you know, to take over some of the loads and and somehow you have to be there. and I’m right. We are we are trying to be we are trying to be at least 90 percent occupied. And thenI have next set of goals for next year. So some strategies we may have to change. But right now, I think it is much better than the last year.
Kristen Knapp (19:34)
Totally, yeah, you get a little bit better each year. I think that’s how it goes for sure. And so what’s next for you and your business? mean, it seems like you’re definitely on an upward trajectory.Pramod Singh (19:38)
Yes.Yes, absolutely. my goal is to, ⁓ my goal is to, so I do everything. I have single family rentals, have Airbnb’s and I have ⁓ this multifamily. ⁓ So we are, we are ⁓ going to expand a little more, ⁓ maybe another, another couple units every, every few months. And then at a point when I think that, you know, the cashflow is
It’s so much that you you can rely on this consistently. And then after that, my next goal would be to ⁓ to to fine tune it and optimize it so that you don’t have to work as much to protect your asset and, you know, run your business. It can be run by any normal, you know, not very highly skilled person. That’s my main goal that, you know, anybody can run your business. It is so, so automated that, you know, you can.
you can rely on even people who have not much skills, right? So that’s my next goal.
Kristen Knapp (20:48)
Yeah, I think that’s a really important thing to bring up. Because I think people become the most important parts of their business and it’s hard to delegate and it’s hard to trust other people. But I like the other perspective of, no, would be make it so organized that it’s easy for anybody.Pramod Singh (21:06)
Exactly, exactly.Kristen Knapp (21:08)
I love that. Well, thank you. You’ve given such good guidance on how to get started in real estate and scale. And it seems like you’re just doing such great business. So I really appreciate you being here. How do you tell people how to find you?Pramod Singh (21:20)
You can always find me on my Facebook Pramod Singh ⁓ and then ⁓ my LinkedIn profile, Pramod Singh, but ⁓ it’s profile on my W2. I don’t have the profile for ⁓ real estate. ⁓ But yeah, on Facebook, I’m easy to find and my phone number, my direct number is also there. ⁓Also subscribe to my channel, the provester circle on YouTube and you’ll find my contacts and my email.
Kristen Knapp (21:57)
Well, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Awesome. And thank you everybody for listening and we will see you back next time. I hope you learned a lot. Bye.Pramod Singh (22:01)
Thank you so much.Thank you.
