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Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros Podcast, Micah Johnson interviews Cara Kennedy, a creative real estate investor with a focus on innovative property exchanges. They discuss Cara’s journey into real estate, the importance of networking, and how ADHD influences her creative approach to business. The conversation highlights the significance of community in real estate, the evolution of networking strategies, and the potential of equity marketing. Cara shares insights on structuring a successful real estate business and the value of investing in relationships to unlock new opportunities.
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Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (00:00)
So if you get a room of 100 people and every person brings two to five properties that they’re looking to make a change with, we don’t know what that change is, you have 200 to 500 properties in the room, right? So equity marketing, instead of going from one sticky note to another and talking about it live in a meeting, instead you have one presenter doing what could be a quick pitch, which is about 30 seconds.Micah Johnson (01:58)
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m your host, Micah Johnson. And today I’m joined by Cara, who’s been making some serious moves in real estate investing now for about seven years. Cara, welcome in. Glad to have you. Absolutely. I’m excited for our conversation today and our pre-call recording. You were talking about something that I’d asked what it was and I’m excited for our story to get into it. So let’s dive in there for folks who may not know you yet. What’s your main focus right now and what markets do you operate in?Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (02:10)
Hey, Micah, thanks for having me.Awesome.
Sure, yeah. So my main focus is a niche in real estate called Creative Real Estate Exchange. So it’s akin to a 1031 exchange. But if people agree, you may never need to use an accommodator. You could just trade properties.
create a settlement statement and go through a title company. And I’m starting to shift from having done that in the residential space and, you know, small lending, stuff like that, slowly into commercial. So I recently got licensed in Michigan. I’m in the midst of setting that up with my broker and establishing a brokerage and starting to shift that creative mindset into bigger deals.
Micah Johnson (03:07)
So before we dig in there, let’s back up a little bit. What led you to here, right? Like what led, how’d you get into real estate? And then that desire to create this group, this idea of how you kind of cut a middleman out almost, and then put people in rooms to do deals together.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (03:25)
Yeah, so when I first got started in real estate, I was hearing from other more experienced people that the average market cycle for, you know, the overall market stocks in real estate, automobiles, all of that is about 10 years. So seven years ago, we were approaching the 10 year mark from 2009, 2008. So I’m like, OK, let me just pay attention. Some of the formulas I’m learning might not work. So I actually went into a class in Tampa, Florida. I saw Peter Fortunato speak.and learned about creative real estate. And I decided if I was going to fly down to Florida, I might as well spend five days and hit every networking group that I could. So I saw this amazing thing called Real Estate Exchange where they, it’s like haves and wants on steroids. ⁓ They put properties like the napkin map information, is it a rental? Do they need a property manager? Do they need someone who flips and they’ll just bring the house and the equity?
and they put up the property and then other people do the same and you get the chance to make live offers in a room, which is effectively like a verbal letter of intent for follow-up outside of the room. So I learned that in 2019, kept educating myself and then realized my local market here in Metro Detroit didn’t have a network like that. So I figured I would start one about two years ago and worst case scenario, you close it, right? But it’s been…
low and slow and consistent, but we’ve got an active room anywhere from 10 to 30 people on a regular basis, which is a great size for really active participation in masterminding and I love it.
Micah Johnson (05:48)
Okay,take us through what a meeting’s like. Give us an example. So you got 30 folks in the room. So what are they doing while they’re there?
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (05:53)
Yeah. ⁓Yeah, so if you picture like a virtual whiteboard, okay, we’ll have a square whiteboard. On one side we have wants, on one side we have stuff. This could be vehicles, air conditioners, timeshares, things like that. On the bottom we have haves. This could be money, this could be mortgage, brokering services, ⁓ handyman services, stuff like that. And then on the top is properties.
and we’ll just fill in this whiteboard. We’ll go from category to category or to each person where if one person has a property and one person has a building team, we might try to link them together. Where this person wants to retire, this person wants to get into the game. Hey, if you fix up my house, I’ll give you 50 % of the profit after we cover all of our costs. And that’s a possible outcome from a room like that. It could also be, ⁓
someone retiring is a really good example because their needs are very obvious. So it could be someone who has you know 500,000 or a million in a rental portfolio and they would rather be passive. So will they accept seller financing? But not only that, if I don’t have money but I have equity, can I put up one of my houses as a down payment? Say a $200,000 free and clear house as a down payment and then I’m going to buy that one back from you?
and I’m going to buy all of yours.
Micah Johnson (07:22)
Love that. Truly creative stuff. Yeah, it does. does. Because the world of creative finance and just creative in general, the strategies in real estate, there’s a lot of them. There’s things that you don’t think about. It’s like there’s the normal real estate world of the contracts that we typically use. And then there’s this other world that a ton of deals take place in that are creative, where it’s like you’re talking about. Why did thatCara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (07:22)
So yeah, is that it? Yeah.Mm-hmm.
boy.
Yeah. ⁓
Micah Johnson (07:50)
Interest you so much what about the creative world just got you like do this for.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (07:55)
I think it helps, honestly, my ADHD. I have a very active creative brain. My background is civil engineering, so I studied and took a master’s. I’ve worked in a few different disciplines of engineering, from foundations to municipal, ⁓ rock slope and mining industry. So this is a way for me to keep my numerical creativity active, if you will.So I’m very visual, I think about multiple things at once and I’m very good at remembering people and places. So for those people out there who build a business and they scale one mode of doing business, I don’t think I could keep interest in that over the course of 10 years. This to me is interesting because everything is live inventory with possible benefits that you can activate if the right opportunity comes around.
Micah Johnson (08:54)
There’s so many things going on that can keep you just locked in. And if you have ADHD out there, if you’re listening and watching, you understand completely what we’re talking about. If you don’t, it’s hard to explain because I tell everybody ADHD is a, it’s a difference. It’s not a disorder. You got to understand your brain and how it works. It’s funny to me how many people with ADHD, one that are entrepreneurs, and then two are in especially in real estate.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (08:55)
Yeah.Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Micah Johnson (09:23)
because it’s such a huge term, it’s such a big industry, you can participate in it in the way that suits you, right? I’ve spent my career since 2014 that way. How do I stay in it, but keep doing the parts I like and, you know, got rid of the parts I didn’t like. It was one of like the industries. I did a lot of jobs growing up for that reason. You just kind of, I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to do that. want to, you you just try things out. And real estate is the one that let me stay in the industry. That’s what I love about it. I got to switch, you know?Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (09:40)
Right.Yeah,
exactly. You can like shape your career for what you enjoy and keeps your dopamine activated the way it’s meant to because that’s your natural rhythm. It’s just not a neurotypical rhythm, right?
Micah Johnson (09:53)
I got this.Right.
Right, right. And
if again, I haven’t really talked about this much on the podcast, so we’re gonna lean into this ADHD some because it’s, it’s, it again, it’s a difference learning it for yourself, understanding yourself is a big deal when it comes to whatever project you’re going to do because knowing how you like you know how you learn, I understand how you learn how your brain takes in information how you work with other people because
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (10:45)
I love it, okay.Micah Johnson (11:05)
It you’re uniquely set up with gifts to run these kinds of rooms, right? You’re good at hosting. That’s one thing that like lets you in. We were talking about it before. How does that help you keep being yourself?Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (11:12)
Mm-hmm.I think the way I’m starting to model my business, because I’m officially now restructuring it like a small business. I’m no longer the mom and pop, right? I’m starting to systematize. I’m realizing my highest and best role in my own business is meeting people, going to conferences, going to these real estate exchange meetings and ⁓ equity marketing meetings in other cities because
that is what will make me the most money. Be it capital raising, looking for win-win-win deals because most exchange deals are or they don’t get done. That’s my highest and best. So the more that I can streamline my back office operations, I have an amazing assistant based in the Philippines named Amabel. I’m in the middle of redoing my bookkeeping and hiring someone who has experience in creative real estate herself. ⁓
that will allow me to go out and do more business. ⁓ And I’m very, very excited. I’m just starting to get to work with a charity that provides housing for a few at-risk demographics. And we’re hoping to add more by the end of the year. But they’re bringing me on as ⁓ like an advisory board member to help them with financing and acquisitions, which is
sweet spot. So I’m so excited.
Micah Johnson (12:35)
Andit’s interesting how life keeps opening doors for you when you find alignment. When you spend the time, get clarity and alignment like you’re doing, understanding, okay, I don’t do the back office stuff well. I don’t do the bookkeeping stuff well. There’s a certain thing I do well. How do I set myself up to my strength as often as possible, right? We always got to do some things we don’t like, but as often as possible.
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (12:54)
Yeah.Yeah.
Micah Johnson (12:59)
how muchyou’re setting yourself up. Because that’s what makes a business grow. Like any business that leader has to understand that part or you get bogged down. And that’s where a lot of businesses fail is you live too long in your weakness. There’s ⁓ a good book out there called, Who Not How by Dr. I think it’s Ben Hardy. And that’s really what he digs into is,
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (13:11)
Yeah.Micah Johnson (13:22)
There’s a point you got to look outside. You got to find other people. If you’re going to build anything past a certain point, because you got to understand yourself and folks with ADHD, you do, if we do the part we don’t like for too long, that’s what kills us. That is the, that’s the part that it, and we feel it bigger than anybody imagines. Like it doesn’t just suck the life out of you. It sucks the life out of you.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (13:37)
⁓ yeah.Every one
hour really costs you three because you’re then drained and need to go do something completely different, thereby wasting more time. So, yeah.
Micah Johnson (13:51)
Right, right, right, exactly. When youhave to will that dopamine into existence, you only get to push that button so many times a day where you’re empty at the end. ⁓ that’s funny. Okay, so for 2026, what’s your big opportunity? Are you spreading out? You bringing this to life in more places? What’s going on?
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (14:02)
Yes.Yeah.
I’m kind of splitting the year. My first half of the year, I’m going smaller. I’m focusing in the business, cleaning up some bookkeeping after some personal and business partnership shifts. And I’m starting to open a brokerage here in Michigan. If all the stars align, that’ll be the plan. And then for the second half of 2026 and into 2027, I’ll be really focusing on going to…
out of town equity marketing meetings, which is one layer more complex than real estate exchanging and hopefully putting together like a Midwest and Southeast real estate exchange with a few other real estate exchange and equity marketing groups based anywhere from Wisconsin to South Carolina. So hopefully we’ll be having one of those meetings in the fall or next spring.
Micah Johnson (15:46)
Nice, excellent. So dig into the equity type. What’s the difference there?Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (15:51)
Yeah, soequity marketing is typically for when you have more advanced people in the room. normally rooms like this, they’re held at the statewide level or the national level. So I just came back from the National Council of Exchangers, which is what I got my license for. And a room there is typically anywhere from 70 to 150 people, where about half of them are principals, i.e. they’re like investing in their own deals or half of them are brokers.
So if you get a room of 100 people and every person brings two to five properties that they’re looking to make a change with, we don’t know what that change is, you have 200 to 500 properties in the room, right? So equity marketing, instead of going from one sticky note to another and talking about it live in a meeting, instead you have one presenter doing what could be a quick pitch, which is about 30 seconds.
or a moderated package where someone will dig in and ask them questions about the property, the situation, the desires of the people selling. And that’s about five minutes. And then every attendee in the room is assigned a number. So all you do is listen to the pitch, you give them your number, and then you follow up after the meeting for what property or asset, right, could be a note, something like that, a security, what asset you would like to offer to them or their client. So
the amount of inventory that gets out is five to tenfold.
Micah Johnson (17:20)
So interesting. just haven’t heard of this before, which blows my mind. There’s not much I typically haven’t heard of. That’s not true. That’s not true. ⁓ Real estate is big. Yeah, but it’s big. I hear stuff, it’s, I’m always fascinated by how people find deals. mean, Leads are the lifeblood of real estate business. I mean, this is a real estate investing podcast that we’re on right now. And folks are always interested. Where can I go find, where do I find a deal? Where do I find a deal? Where do I find a deal?Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (17:27)
In real estate. Let’s give it in real estate.Micah Johnson (17:49)
and hearing about these other places where you can go find something that you’re looking for and put it together in ways that are beneficial to you. Like creative, that’s becoming a big, big deal in real estate, especially when we get interest rates moving up, different things. You run into all kinds of people that need different issues, know, or need different solutions. A lot of folks are in their older years that we work with and they don’t really need money right now. What they need is money monthly, right? ⁓They don’t want to pay that big lump sum in taxes. There’s all these different factors where being in places where one, you can learn how to do it, education’s everything, but then exposed to the deal types where it already is thought about, talk about easy, right? In the sense of just having it out there, right?
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (18:31)
Yeah.Yeah, yeah, it’s really neat. People who are more experienced than me say they’ve been in this about five to eight years longer than myself. They say that if you attend one of these meetings every two months to every quarter, you come home with a binder of all the properties, you can usually just work out of that binder and you don’t have to do any traditional lead generation or marketing. So think of the people spending thousands to tens of thousands of letters. Instead, I’m spending, you know, 2000 or so to go to a conference, slide up.
Las Vegas or South Carolina, spend four days there having very intentional conversations because you get to review the book ahead of time. And then you come home with the book, you come home with everything that you offered on and everything that people offered on your stuff. And you just work that for the next couple of months from your desk. And that is how many people have ran their careers in this equity marketing or real estate exchange.
Micah Johnson (19:31)
It’s, again, behind all of our podcasts and stuff is a mastermind called Investor Fuel. it’s, I see the similarities to it, but the big similarity I see is just the power of being in the right room. When you are with the people that understand what you’re talking about or participating in it, it’s where you can…Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (19:39)
I’m sorry.100%.
Micah Johnson (19:54)
Like if someone’s truly been able to do what you just said for their career, that’s a life hack for the right person. That’s giving someone access to a real estate market and world that most didn’t know existed. that, mean, access to something is everything.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (20:09)
Yep, yeah, 100%. It’s, I mean, it lights up my personality because then I can stay in my genius zone, you know, in person or on the phone. And there’s, you can’t really exchange something for being in person. Like it’s amazing we can be here on a virtual recording today. But when you’re in person with someone, like only 30 some odd percent of our communication is verbal. So you just get so much more by being in theMicah Johnson (20:36)
For sure, for sure. There’s nothing like a live event, especially as you’re growing. You are the people you surround yourself with. It’s a cliche for a reason, right? Like there’s always truth in these things and making sure you’re with the people that, how do you go get with folks doing the thing that you’re doing or doing the thing that you’re interested in doing? Like that’s how we do it. That’s how you make those connections, whether it’s work stuff or…Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (20:40)
Yeah.Yeah.
Great.
Micah Johnson (21:03)
Golf or doesn’t matter. Like that’s how you make your friends. It’s how you make your community is go do the things, put yourself in places where people are doing the stuff that you’re doing and you start to develop your network. My mentor, he’s always on about this, man. Go put people in your phone who nobody’s going to be able to get their phone number in 30 years. He’s like, that’s, and you do it before they become inaccessible. This is how you do that, right? Like go build these relationships on purpose. And you’re right. You can’t do it while.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (21:04)
Great.Good.
Yeah. ⁓
Micah Johnson (21:31)
While COVID did make this feel like we’re hanging out, like I do enjoy what it did virtually, nothing replaces that in person, nothing. Cause it’s like you said, it’s not just talking. I love the quote, your vibe attracts your tribe. Like getting out there, being yourself, like yeah. And just getting in that room with folks where they’re qualified to be there too, right? That’s the beauty of being in vetted room and what makes like local meetups and things.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (21:34)
Yeah.Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ooh, I’m sure Noah’s…
Thank
Micah Johnson (21:59)
a little bit difficult when you’re a higher level person is how do you trust them? How do I be in here? How do I do this? And when you get into those places where you know you’re walking in with folks that are equal or better than you, the guard goes down. You can get into those quick conversations much, or those fast, you can get into those deep conversations much quicker and ⁓ build community. It’s a cliche word too, but it’s so freaking true. Like you need your people, you need your group.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (22:11)
Mm-hmm. yeah.Yeah.
Micah Johnson (22:29)
And the best do it. That’s the reality. The best are part of these things. And there’s a reason why they’ve been around a long time and why they don’t go away. It’s, I always look at it like a country club in a sense. There’s a reason people pay a lot of money to be a part of one. Cause other people paid a lot of money to be a part of one. And don’t you want a private place to hang out with them? I do. Right? Like that’s, I want that. That’s what I’m hoping for. Cause that’s what gets us all in that door whereCara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (22:31)
Yeah. Yeah.Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Micah Johnson (22:57)
We all paid to be here. We all put in the reps to qualify to be here. So those two things really allow you to open up quick.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (23:05)
yeah, yeah, I’ve had people ask me why I travel out of state. How can I afford that? And every time I go, I deepen a connection of someone I already know, like we call it financial friends in our little exchange realm over here, and or I come home with a deal. So I’m normally solving a problem that’s in my business or I’m deepening a connection or I’m getting a new or multiple new opportunities. So for the way that I’ve structured my business with my personality and my strengths.I can’t afford not to go to these things. So.
Micah Johnson (23:37)
Exactly right. They’re all investments. If you’re not understanding that it is an investment as well, and it should be making you money, you’re looking at these groups the wrong way. The membership should pay for themselves or you’re doing it wrong. And they should do way more than pay for themselves. Like if you’re participating correctly, it’s not a cost. It is a, I got to go here because that’s what comes here. I was talking to a friend of mine who’s been a part of ours for like eight years. He does.a ton of deals a year. And I asked him, why do you keep coming back, man? Why do you stay in a group like this? You have a huge business, you’re really good. He says, man, because you can’t beat one real estate’s always changing. And you need to learn you got to keep your ear to the ground. And that’s where this you’re in a group full of 170 other people all keeping their ear to the ground too. Right. And it’s just that one because it’s the little things, you know, I got told about a software six months ago, that’s made me $300,000 since I started using it. It’s that right?
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (24:23)
Mm-hmm.yeah.
That’s amazing. Yeah.
Micah Johnson (24:34)
Yeah, it’s just these little differentthings that if I wouldn’t have known about that, I wouldn’t have switched to it. And it’s that. So if you’re out there and you’re on the fence about these kinds of communities and going on these trips, go. Just go once. You can decide you don’t ever want to go again, but just go once with the mentality of I’m investing in myself. has zero to do with you. It has meeting other people, right? Like we all.
Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (24:46)
Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah.Micah Johnson (24:59)
You may feel weird if you deal with imposter syndrome that could pop up there, but it doesn’t matter. Right? Here’s what I tell people about that. When you feel it, you’re doing something right. That’s making you grow. The only other time I feel that is when I’m stretching my comfort zone, when I’m putting myself out there and it’s like, good. This should show up now. So lean into it. It’s all like, it’s not trying to keep you from anything. It’s like, this is the door walk through it. right over here.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (25:03)
Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. Hold on.
Right, right.
Right,
Yeah, yeah on imposter syndrome. Well, a meeting in person you mentioned alignment the beautiful thing about meeting in person is the you feel the energy and it’s like there is a whole shift that even if you come in not feeling quite yourself There’s a whole energetic momentum of people being there Excited to meet with people who think like them who want to grow who want to keep putting in the reps, right? because if
What’s that saying? Like if you stop learning, you stop growing or you you stop growing, you’re dying, something like that. it’s, yeah, being in the room is so powerful.
Micah Johnson (26:04)
I could harp on that all day. And Cara, this has been a super fun conversation. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time, your story, your perspective. I think we need more folks out there doing it like you’re doing it. ⁓ Line your life up the way you want it with real estate. That’s what we all get into this industry for, whatever it is you’re trying to build. Find it, lean into it, understand yourself. And it takes time. You’ve been in it seven years. You got into this two years ago and it’s just lining up.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (26:15)
Yeah.Right.
Micah Johnson (26:34)
Right? Like it’s, it’s, that’s what’s beautiful about it. So for folks that are listening and watching, that would be interesting and learning more about your exchanges and you and what you have going on. What’s the best way for them to find you.Cara Kennedy, MSc, PEng (26:37)
Yeah.Yeah, so we just put up a landing page at GreatLakesReX.com. So that’s for Great LakesRealEstateExchange.com. And all of our events right now are hosted as Facebook events. So that’s Facebook.com backslash capital, all capital letters, G-L-R-E-X. So we host events every second and fourth Tuesday of the month.
The second Tuesday is at 11 a.m. Eastern Standard Time and the fourth Tuesday is at 630 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. We are on Zoom and in person on the fourth Tuesdays, but we’re always on Zoom. We get people calling in from across the country and just great conversations. If you need help with a deal, we mastermind or if you just want to get your inventory out there and get some creative solutions like a stale listing, even if you’re an agent, you’ll normally get an offer in this room.
Micah Johnson (27:42)
So if you’re listening, make sure you check the show notes, click on the link, go see what’s going on. Discover a world of real estate that might be the absolute perfect fit for you. As always, thanks so much for joining us. If you got value out of today’s episode, please like this episode, share it with someone else you think could get value out of it. And as always, please don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast. We appreciate every single one of you that follow along out there with us. We’ve got more conversations coming up with operators just like Cara.out there building a real business in the industry. Thanks for joining us. We’ll see you all in the next episode.
