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Show Summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros Podcast, host Micah Johnson sits down with Carson Jones, a seasoned commercial real estate investor, broker, and syndicator with over 16 years of experience. Carson shares his transition from corporate accounting and restaurant ownership into real estate, explaining how the desire for more passive income and scalability led him to syndication and brokerage. The conversation dives deep into creativity in deal-making, adapting to market cycles, building investor trust, and the importance of education and communication in today’s fast-moving real estate environment. Carson also discusses the power of networking, personal branding, and newsletters as tools to rise above the noise and build long-term credibility.
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Investor Fuel Show Transcript:
Carson Jones (00:00)
Yeah, I’ll tell you this though. Social media has taught me to do things different in business. Like if you put together a property package, like I realize now, like from syndicating, like you literally have like 10 seconds to both build trust and interest at the same time. So like those first two pages of a pitch deck, or if you’re listing a property, like I put all this stuff in there. So it’s really captivating.Micah Johnson (02:00)
everyone, welcome to the Real Estate Pros podcast. I’m your host, Micah Johnson. And today I’m joined by Carson, who’s been making some serious moves in commercial real estate now for about 16 years. Carson, welcome in man, glad to have you. It’s going well. I’m doing well, man. I’m doing well. I’m glad to have you today. I think our listeners are gonna take away something from how you approach your business and the way you’ve gone about building what you currently have today. So let’s dig in there. For those who may not know you yet.Carson Jones (02:11)
Hey, how’s it going? You doing alright?Absolutely.
Micah Johnson (02:28)
What’s your main focus right now? What markets are you operating in?Carson Jones (02:32)
Well, I’m based in the Nashville area, but you know, as an investor or syndicator, I’m pretty much focused nationwide. I’ve been doing some industrial down in Texas with new developments, syndicating that. got as a broker, I’m, you know, doing some multifamily here in the Nashville area. I got a $400 million off market portfolio of newly built stuff. You know, getting into all kinds of stuff.⁓ mixed use and all that. So anywhere I can use creativity and make things happen, I try and go. anyway.
Micah Johnson (03:10)
I love that, man. That’s what we talking about a little bit pre-recording was the creativity part, how that goes into a lot of what you like to do and go about your business. So let’s take a step back. What was happening 17 years ago? What led you into real estate and brought you on this journey?Carson Jones (03:26)
So I did the corporate thing like everybody and you know, I was in corporate accounting and then it didn’t I didn’t like it. There’s no way around it. ⁓ About 2007, 2008, right before the great financial crisis, I started a little marketing company, did pretty good. And then I eventually started a restaurant. And you know, I go into like my first lease, I made theThis is my book, the Red Flag Playbook about buying and selling businesses. But I made the same mistake Sam Walton did on signing a lease. Too many percentage increases, personal and liable, you know, it just kind of eroded the business. I later renegotiated the lease and I talk about that my book, you ⁓
Business-wise, after I got the leases renegotiated, one of them did really well for about 10 years. I sold one of them and it was doing pretty good. Both cash flowed, ⁓ both had kind of more headaches with the employees. And that’s kind of the basis of what steered me into real estate is being more of the passive investor ⁓ versus, I guess I’m active as a syndicator, but it’s not as much work as running a restaurant.
Micah Johnson (04:38)
Gotcha.Carson Jones (04:46)
Not as much babysitting. There’s still babysitting in anything you do, but not as much. So anyway.Micah Johnson (04:52)
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay. There was a, there was a quote I heard from, ⁓ what’s his name? Graham. He’s a golfer, but he owns a, he owns a restaurant here in, Ponta Beajor beach, but he said, ⁓ he said, how do you, ⁓ how do you create a small fortune in real estate or in the restaurant business? You say you start with a big fortune. So it sounds like you did better than him.Carson Jones (05:14)
⁓ man, yeah. That’spretty funny. ⁓ I think I’ve heard that before, but that’s pretty funny.
Micah Johnson (06:13)
It cracked me up because that’s yeah, man, you’re dealing with when you start dealing with people’s food, that’s a, that’s an interesting spot. I did not own one. One of my first jobs at 16 was at a Red Lobster being a host. And I just remember just the experience of, look at all these different people you interact with. Look, this is a whole ecosystem unto itself.Carson Jones (06:26)
Yeah.Yeah, it was eye-opener, but you know, it opened the eyes of, you know, the reality of business. Not all businesses are the same. Actually, the first business I started, the marketing company I still have today, you know, we operate and it’s doing investor marketing for investor companies. So it still does well. So it’s just interesting. But the amount of work I put into the restaurant for what I took out was, you know, it was a lot of work. anyway.
Micah Johnson (07:03)
$10 an hour, ⁓ huh? That’s funny. All right. So the restaurant sold, we still got the marketing company and you’re moving into the real estate side. Now you have a unique direction in real estate where you became an investor first and then cranked up a brokerage. Take us through that move.Carson Jones (07:05)
Well, I was singing like three or $4 an hour in the first two years. Yeah. Oh man. For being honest. Yeah.Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I’ve been syndicating for quite some time. You know, I’ve done oil and, know, oil is a little risky on that side. I kind of stay away from it and I want everybody to know the risk. I’ve had good experiences. I’ve also had really bad and I’ll lay off that one because not all oil deals are bad, you know, knowing the risk, but real estate’s, you know, provided a lot of income and been a good solid investment.
You know, none of my investors have ever lost money on one of my real estate deals. You know, so there’s a huge difference between that and oil deal. Some of them have, and they weren’t real happy with me, you know, even though it wasn’t my fault and it’s explained risk. you know, getting into real estate, I, you know, syndicated a lot of apartment complexes. I’ve gotten into, ⁓ you know, industrial and other stuff lately.
Micah Johnson (08:06)
Right.Carson Jones (08:25)
But getting into the brokerage, there’s just been a slowdown with interest rates going up as far as the number of deals on the investor side. And there’s been a slowdown of deals on the brokerage side. But if I’m able to do both, it’s helped me. On the brokerage side, if I have an investor and they say hypothetically, this isn’t about any of my clients, say one has a $5 million building.and he sells it and then he’s liquid for 1.6 million after that. Then I have him as an investor. He doesn’t have to invest all of it with me. If he throws $200,000 into one of my deals, it’s allowed me to expand my network and who I have as investors on the investor side as well, being a broker.
Micah Johnson (09:17)
Right.Carson Jones (09:20)
you know, waiting for them on the exit or anything. It just so happens like, hey, the timing’s right. Hey, I got an industrial deal down in Texas. You just exited a thing. This is a great place to put it, you know, and it’s up to them. anyway.Micah Johnson (09:34)
Well, it’s, you provide yourself that stability and what’s been a multifamily market here for a couple of years. lot of folks I know in there, they haven’t bought anything, sat for a long time, just waiting. was so many deals that weren’t penciling where real estate has that factor to it. We all participate in this, in its cycles. And a lot of times to create that stability, you have more than one strategy happening.Carson Jones (09:45)
Yeah.no doubt. I mean, it’s one of those where you have to get creative when times are slower, and it’s been that way. So I’ve actually been doing pretty well the last two or three years. ⁓ A lot of it’s just good old fashioned hard work. I don’t want to sound like I’m anybody’s dad here, but that’s just kind of the truth of the matter. I mean, when you start anything new, whether it’s even if you’ve done 100 apartment complexes, doing one’s kind of hard work. So you know,
starting on the brokerage side, it’s a lot of work just, you okay, you’re starting getting a website, you know, working with new people, it’s different lingo, you know, looking at things differently than they did. When you’re raising capital and syndicating, you’re constantly doing activities like social media and a lot of just, it’s just personal branding on steroids. You know, on the brokerage side, you’re going to real net more
Micah Johnson (11:26)
Mm-hmm.Carson Jones (11:31)
more in-person networking, would say, in trying to have more human interaction. So it’s kind of allowed for a little bit of balance, in my opinion, you know? So.Micah Johnson (11:33)
Gotcha.And
what have those interactions be able to do for you? How has that networking helped grow your business?
Carson Jones (11:47)
Tremendously, know, both online and in person. I get traveled out, but I did a lot of traveling, you know, probably the October through November area, you know, from Louisville to Miami to. Gosh, there’s probably three or four other cities and I can’t even remember them. I think I went to Tampa, ⁓ Atlanta, but yeah, just different networking events, open doors for.clients, investors, just people to stay in touch with, growing my following, consistency, know. ⁓ But a lot of what I’ve done is really focused on education as far as investors and then, you know, people who are selling, buying and selling properties. ⁓ You know, if you’re going to sell a business or sell a multifamily
Micah Johnson (12:34)
Mm.Carson Jones (12:47)
⁓ portfolio or a complex, getting your financials in order. That’s not that hard, but a lot of owners simply think they can just go print rent rolls and they’re going to sell it and they’re going to, ⁓ I’m going to cut the broker out and save on the fees. It’s let’s get this packaged up, right? Let’s strip out your depreciation and interest. So you’re painting a clear picture of your net operating income to the next buyer. So it’s an easier decision for them.If you just flop down a bunch of spreadsheets and they’re having to dig through it, they’re like, I’m going to low ball this guy just because he made me sort through the spreadsheets.
Micah Johnson (13:23)
Right, exactly, exactly. You’re settingyourself up to fail right out of the gate. And that’s the value of working with someone that’s good at their job, especially in the brokerage level is folks always wanted to, I always heard them, you I’m going to save that brokerage fee. And it was always, you know how much money you’re saving, but you have no idea how much money you’re losing by doing that. You are.
Carson Jones (13:42)
Oh, yeah. Idon’t disagree with you. You’re right on that. You know, the other thing is with it’s just always challenging educating investors. You know, I started doing a newsletter on LinkedIn when like the tariff thing came out and I kind of just went through and I was one of the few people that said they wouldn’t cause inflation. And I went through the reasons.
why with the job cuts and a lot of other deflationary activity was enough to offset it. You know, there’s just a lot there. Like people don’t understand how complex the economy is. And you even look at like a lot of these people you’ll see online, say you pull up TikTok and there’s a realtor saying, you know, don’t know why houses are moving so slow. And, you know, it’s we’re in a situation where the economy’s booming, but houses aren’t
and some markets, depending on the market, they’re not all the same, aren’t moving. But you have to look at like what we talked about as immigration. If they deported two million people and they’re deporting another two million and there’s only 54 million renters, that’s 10 % of your rent base right there. I mean, that’s, and you look at like, ⁓ you know, the rental rates with apartments.com and CoStar.
Micah Johnson (14:55)
Right?Carson Jones (15:44)
You know, those have been down like for the first time in a long time and you just deported your renters. It’s just getting them to open their eyes. You know, I’m not going to be exactly right on everything, but I can point people in the right direction and say, Hey, why don’t we look here? And it’s there’s a lot of fear with people. They’re constantly taught to be scared. Like, inflation’s coming. Well, if 30, if 35 % of CPI is.Housing and you’re deporting that many people that means there’s really not going to be any inflation I mean just 35 % of it’s basically heading down then you have energy costs coming down with it I mean could there still be inflation? Yeah, but probably not I mean they they just plant a lot of false fear in you with the media and getting people to you know See the bigger picture and all of it. So anyway
Micah Johnson (16:20)
Mmm.I agree, man. It’s the things that we are talking about on national levels are very complex. And when they’re made to be said to where and fourth and fifth grade reading level is how they’re saying them on TV. You can only you can only dumb it down. I don’t want to say dumb it down. You can only water it down so much until you lose what was actually there and understanding of how many pieces are in motion at any given time and how
Carson Jones (16:51)
Yeah.Yeah.
Micah Johnson (17:04)
one change over here is going to have an effect on something down here and you’ve got to play into it all. And I agree with the fear stuff and sadly, fear and anger are what social media loves to push out. gets eyeballs on it. And, and it’s, I love any voice that can even in a, even in a stormy time can say, Hey, take a deep breath here. It’s stormy. We’ve had storms before we’ll solve it. We’re going to, it’s not about knowing everything. It’s just about.Carson Jones (17:15)
I know. Yeah.Yeah.
Micah Johnson (17:32)
learning and adjusting and being open to what’s fixing to happen.Carson Jones (17:35)
You know, know, the thing that everybody hates about the thing I like is my newsletter and it’s very hard to write a newsletter because you’re like, gosh, I forgot to write it. So I’d suggest if anybody does want to do it once monthly, because it’s too hard to maintain on a weekly basis, but that’s my chance to where on LinkedIn, hits their inbox. So, you know, we’re always busy. got into the selfie posts with my books, you know, everybody’s fighting for attention. I get it. You know, we’re all.you know, in it to be in business. But, you know, my newsletter is where I can really like give thoughts and say, Hey, this is what I think. And people actually take the time to read it because it hits their inbox. gets emailed to their, you know, I’ve built that to, I think I’m over like 2,500 subscribers and I’ve only had it for probably eight months, you know, but it’s just gives me a consistent way to speak my voice because
Micah Johnson (18:23)
Nice.Carson Jones (18:32)
People don’t have the attention span to really listen to you on social media. Do you think if I type like some essay on Facebook, people will just be like, get out of here, you That’s too long, you You gotta say it in like 10 seconds, or it gets discarded, you know? He didn’t say it quick enough, you know? So that’s one aspect of social media I do like is my newsletter. So anyway.Micah Johnson (18:55)
Well, it’s findingthat way to get above the noise. And that’s what everybody that’s good at it does is you find your way to say that message in the way that’s how you want to say it. So you’re not sounding like everybody else. through that medium where, like you said, when you can get that inbox time, we look at our inboxes way differently than we look at our feeds. It’s just the way it is. And learning for your own self where you can get that attention to educate.
Carson Jones (18:59)
How you doing?Yeah.
Yeah, I’ll tell you this though. Social media has taught me to do things different in business. Like if you put together a property package, like I realize now, like from syndicating, like you literally have like 10 seconds to both build trust and interest at the same time. So like those first two pages of a pitch deck, or if you’re listing a property, like I put all this stuff in there. So it’s really captivating.
You know, like I say,
I say if you put the break-even occupancy into a pitch deck, I’ve seen like our commitment rate go up like 40%. And it’s a small little detail that’s just put like, and it’s a line this big that says like 67 % break-even occupancy. And it just builds trust. It shows you your numbers and it says a lot and just that little snippet, you and you have to have little almost like call-outs within there and bolding certain text. And it’s just,
Micah Johnson (20:14)
Right.Carson Jones (20:20)
You know, social media has kind of taught me that aspect to pay attention to a lot of detail, you know, that people’s attention span is just different than it used to be. So. Yeah.Micah Johnson (20:31)
the science behind the communication. There is a methodto it of understanding the environment it’s happening in and then how to draw attention to particular things. It reminds me, and this is somewhat off subject, but Matt Damon was just doing an interview recently about a Netflix movie that they made. And what he was talking about was how they’ve actually had to adjust how they make movies on Netflix specifically, because if you don’t have that good scene early,
Carson Jones (20:47)
Yeah.Micah Johnson (20:58)
People tune out, they’re not at the movie theater. They can just switch to the next movie. So they’re having to write movies with a heavier impact scene up front, explain the storyline a little faster in the middle and get to a big scene at the end, which used to be a little slower, right?Carson Jones (21:00)
Yeah.I believe that it makes so much sense. just,
I mean, I don’t know, being on the brokerage side, so being on the investor side, it’s like you realize that you understand like, hey, I only have like this much time with them. I have to get my point across. you know, without being too salesy, people don’t like being sold to, but then you go to the brokerage side and they’re still kind of stuck in the past on some of the stuff. like, what’s with the table of contents?
Micah Johnson (21:40)
Ha ha!Carson Jones (21:40)
You know, theystill put that in like their, in their property packages. I’m like, golly man,
this is like 1984, you know,
I’m not trying to put it down, but it’s just kind of crazy, you know.
Micah Johnson (21:50)
Well, yousee it and it shows you again, if you’re, if you’re somebody that’s staying up to date with what’s going on, you’ll start to see the holes and what other people are doing. In essence, you’ll see, okay, there, and what that sadly can do is in their own world, it makes you less valuable, especially for newer customers. What do you want to see someone that’s keeping up to date with technology, using it well, communicating well versus here turned to page 30 based on the table of contents.
Carson Jones (22:01)
Yeah.Yeah.
Oh,
Micah Johnson (22:20)
that part you’re hoping for. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. BecauseCarson Jones (22:20)
I know. Yeah, make them jump through hoops, you know. It’s an extra $30 to get to page 30, you know. I’m just kidding. Make them get their credit card out.Micah Johnson (22:32)
this the credit card. Sorry, with a four or five, sir. Well, Carson, man, I’ve appreciated our time today together. Appreciate your perspective sharing your story with us aboutCarson Jones (22:36)
⁓ man.Yeah.
Micah Johnson (22:45)
howyou go about what you’re doing and the reasons behind it. I love for people to see that the unique way that the human side of us comes out and what we do in our business, especially in real estate. think it’s powerful.
Carson Jones (22:57)
Absolutely. I appreciate you having me on. know, I wrote a couple books. One’s about, ⁓ you know, real estate investing. One’s about, ⁓ you know, buying and selling businesses. And, you know, I’m on LinkedIn. If people want to get a hold of me, I’m more, I’m on the other ⁓ social media sites, but I’m just way less active. So if you want a decent response time, you know, LinkedIn is the best way to get a hold of me. Facebook might take a week, but just being on it.Micah Johnson (23:25)
And is it ClarkJones on LinkedIn?
Carson Jones (23:27)
Yep, Carson Jones. So anyway. Yep.Micah Johnson (23:29)
Excellent, excellent. Well, if you’re listening,we’ll make sure that Carson’s links are in the show notes. You’ll be able to find them there. Touch base with him. Sign up for that newsletter. Start getting that professional information on that market that he’s working again. Again, thank you, for being with us. For everybody listening along, if you got value out of today’s episode, please like this episode. Share it with somebody else who may get value out of it. As always, don’t forget to subscribe. We appreciate every single one of you that are following along out there with us.
We’ve got more conversations coming up with operators just like Carson who are out there building a real business in the real estate industry. Thanks for joining us. We’ll see you on the next episode.
