Buying a Business: How Ramon Harris Tripled a Painting Company’s Revenue

Ramond Harris (00:00)
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, it takes a lot of pre-work. A lot of these jobs we’ve been bidding, we bid them a year ago, year and a half ago. A lot of this a lot of this stuff, it doesn’t come quickly and a lot of people don’t really have the patience to to to see it out and that’s really where your competition starts to fall off. Some of these jobs I my biggest job that I I’m on right now is one point four million. Well, it took me two years of chasing this job down.

Freddie Steen (01:55)
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Investor Fuel Podcast by Real Estate Pros. I’m your host, Freddie. And today I’m joined by someone I’ve been looking forward to chatting with. Ramond Harris, who’s been making serious moves in the industry, particularly in the real estate space around his company, BR1 Quality Painting. That’s not all. Ramond’s also been able to figure out how to navigate a very changing landscape in the city that I love, Detroit, Michigan. Ramond, I’m glad to have you here. And I think our listeners are really going to take something away from how you’ve been approaching painting by scaling, not just concerned about fixes and flips smaller jobs, but being now one of the most sought after for large commercial projects in Michigan.

Ramond Harris (02:46)
Let’s get it. Yes, sir.

Freddie Steen (02:47)
So let’s dive in. First off, for people who may not be familiar with your world, Ramond, give us the short version. What’s your main focus these days? And what markets are you operating in?

Ramond Harris (02:57)
Yeah, so primarily I’m in the Detroit market. People keep trying to call me right now, of course. They hat– they hating. I’m in the Detroit market. My primary focus is is painting. We do commercial painting. Our business focuses on large-scale commercial projects that are MSHDA-based primarily. So we’re we’re bringing either new affordable housing to the community or we’re renovating current units. So that’s what we primarily focus on on a day-to-day basis. We’re in the Wayne County area. We also operate in Oakland County. If you in Michigan, your Detroit area, we we available. And like I said, we work with most of the larger contractors in the area, Sachse Construction, O’Brien Construction, some of the big guys, and that’s what we do. We one of the go-to painters.

Freddie Steen (03:37)
Did you s– how did you see the opportunity for the ability to be able to scale from painting residential to growing to commercial? How did you see that gap?

Ramond Harris (03:48)
Great question. So we we primarily focused on business acqui– acquisition. So we like to purchase companies. So we bought the paint company, it was in business for twenty-five years prior to our acquisition. We took the company over, it had fourteen employees, an office of about five thousand square feet, couple office staff. So we’ve taken that company that had an annual revenue of around one point three million and this year currently we have about three point eight three point nine million scheduled on the books. So we we like to go into companies that have a foundation, have a base, and we like to infuse our team into those businesses and try to take it to the next level.

Freddie Steen (04:25)
Did you do that in the commercial painting space?

Ramond Harris (04:27)
Absolutely. That’s exactly what we did. So we bought this company in twenty twenty-four. Like I stated, it it did the revenue of around one point three million when we got when we got into the business. It had fourteen employees. We currently have thirty-six employees right now and and like I stated, we’re doing probably about we’re do– we should do three point eight million this year in revenue.

Freddie Steen (05:35)
Wow.

Ramond Harris (05:36)
Ray– Ramond

Freddie Steen (05:38)
Help our audience that’s full of chock full of Real Estate Pros, just like you, in the commercial painting space, what are some of the trends you’re seeing going into 2027?

Ramond Harris (05:48)
Yeah, that’s a great question. So a lot of the things that are happening in the multifamily space, they’re they’re they’re– it’s really straightforward. They really doing the same old same old two-step when it comes to paint. We priming two coats, wall to wall, nail to nail. How I go, we caulking. It’s the same it’s literally the same thing that’s been going on for a hundred years when it comes to paint. They’re just– they– they have a fast pace. A lot of this construction is going on very fast. So they’re they’re requiring us to move at a very rapid pace, which requires you to have a a high high bandwidth of manpower. You can’t come to the job with two guys no more. That ain’t gonna that ain’t gonna work on these jobs. So a lot of my job my guy– my jobs I’m pushing six to twelve guys per team. We rolling in big teams and and that’s the way that you’re able to accomplish a big task in a small amount of time.

Freddie Steen (06:33)
More in your space, the commercial space, the larger deals. Have you taken a look at what’s happening in the AI space and how it might be able to help you down the line?

Ramond Harris (06:36)
Mm-hmm. Man, it’s been amazing. So again, we do a lot of bidding. I have an estimator on my team. His estimates have gotten– he able to he’s able to spit out estimates much faster and we’re able to help him as well now. When our client asks us for something particular, I’m able to throw it in ChatGPT. ChatGPT, talk to me, baby. I need– I’m on a commercial job in Wayne County. This is the this is the trade that we’re looking to employ. This is what they’re requesting from us. How much? You know what I’m saying? I’m doing that all day. Break it down for me. Put it in a put it in a quote. Send it over to– boop. So it’s done. So it’s allowing us to move way faster with our clients and get them back the information they need much much faster.

Freddie Steen (07:19)
Wow. Ramond, can you just tell our audience one other level that I just want to go and you said something that I want to lift out. Yeah. For this time that you’ve been in the industry, is one of the secrets to your success and success in the real estate industry the ability to pivot?

Ramond Harris (07:37)
Man, you have to. Yes. I would say being able to pivot has it’s taken me crazy places. And again, I took a– I was in logistics from 20 to 24, and then in 24 we bought a paint company. So I had a FedEx business, I had FedEx routes. We grew from four four hundred thousand when we first started to three point six million. And I pivoted because if you notice the logistics industry, ain’t no money over there. A lot of people are falling out, a lot of companies are going out of business, a lot of mergers and acquisitions are happening in that space as well because the little guys can’t afford to to run at the rates with the gas, with the insurance. And we saw that early. Well, I guess you won’t say early, but two years ago we saw that and we were like, “Yeah, let’s start getting out of this.” So we went to something that was more in demand, more controllable, had less moving parts. And that’s kind of what drew us to to commercial painting was hey, if if I just have paint to worry about as my primary material, then I can handle that. You know what I mean? I’m just dealing with Sherwin-Williams. Most most of our clients and architects use Sherwin. So it’s very, very direct, very straightforward. Whereas again with with buying buying trucks and doing all of those things, it– it– it– too many moving parts. So I I enjoy the the paint space. And even with flipping houses, we flip houses two, two to two to eight a year. We’ve been doing that since twenty nineteen. And even with flipping houses, I find this to be more streamlined. I get my scope of work, my client tells me exactly what they want done, and I can send my team in there to go do it. And it’s easy to measure. It’s very easy to measure. Do I got drips? Do I got spills? Do I got– you know what I mean? Like you you can’t have a bad wall and not notice it. So it’s very straightforward. So I I really appreciate the painting, painting space. I love–

Freddie Steen (09:22)
I love it. But Ramond, what caught my attention about you was clearly your connection to a city that I love, Detroit, Michigan. I mean, Detroit has, like you say, drip, has its own swag. It’s Sundays at Belle Isle. It’s Saturday nights at Cutter’s. It’s English Village. It’s it’s it’s Indian Village. It’s it’s it’s Woodward. But here’s the deal. One of the famous mayors said this about Detroit, represented by a storied law firm, Bell and Hudson. Yeah. Money on the wood, Coleman Young. Makes it all good.

Ramond Harris (09:32)
Yeah. That’s my guy.

Freddie Steen (09:52)
Money on the wood makes it all good. Yes, sir. That’s not easy, especially in this climate when you said you’re working caulk to caulk, nail to nail. Yes. Sometimes you have to wait out ninety, hundred and twenty days. Yep. Coleman Young said money on the wood makes it all good. How have you been able to keep that machine running smoothly, especially in this climate?

Ramond Harris (10:08)
Yeah. It’s been difficult. Like I say, we we gotta we gotta flip houses. We gotta do we gotta do what we gotta do to have our revenue in order to handle those ninety to a hundred and twenty day delays on payment. A lot of the jobs that we’re working on, the contracts are huge, but again, if they three months behind on paying you, you still have to continue to keep your workforce high. You still have to continue to keep production at a a very high level and your quality has to stay up. So even though you’re not being paid. And again, we know this coming into this space. We tried to prepare the best we could. I think that we had about two hundred and seventy-five thousand set aside for payroll and just expenses when the year started and we ran through it. Now again, I got a lot of big invoices that are still yet to be paid. So I know on the back end we’re gonna be fine. But again, I’m picking up a flip right now in East English Village that you just spoke of. I gotta flip a house real quick because I need some cheese. So in the interim of waiting on the payments of these big jobs, sometimes you gotta pick up a a job in the middle. I’m doing a flip for one of my investor friends in Farmington Hills right now. So I pick up a flip so again I can have a crew working. So that way I’m generating revenue to pay my guys again, while while I’m waiting on the big payment. So it’s really just being able to keep keep moving. You can’t really sit on your hands. You you gotta continue to try to generate revenue so that you can continue to pay your guys, th– they shouldn’t know that you, that it’s tight out here. They– they– g– their checks still need to show up every Friday. So that’s been a big thing for us is just finding other other things that we can do to make money quickly so that we can f– infuse it into the business to keep the payroll going.

Freddie Steen (12:23)
Ramond, I know our listeners are clamoring for attention on how to collaborate you with you. And we’re going to get to that later. But I have another question for them right now and another question for you that I know they will want to know. Yeah. Our research team told us that you have been able to corner a niche that is available across the country, and that is doing large scale projects near metropolitan transportation centers, like airports. Yep. Can you tell me how you knew that to be an asset area and how well you’ve been able to do in that space without giving up your secret sauce?

Ramond Harris (12:59)
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, it takes a lot of pre-work. A lot of these jobs we’ve been bidding, we bid them a year ago, year and a half ago. A lot of this a lot of this stuff, it doesn’t come quickly and a lot of people don’t really have the patience to to to see it out and that’s really where your competition starts to fall off. Some of these jobs I my biggest job that I I’m on right now is one point four million. Well, it took me two years of chasing this job down. Like I’ve been at that job site so many times. I’ve walked it with all these different people, all these different times. And then it– they call you and they like, “Okay, Ray, we’re ready. Can you mobilize in the next 60 days?” And you’re like, “Holy crap, like for real? Like it’s happening?” They like, “Yes, let’s go.” So a lot of it is just really staying persistent, follow-up game has to be strong. You can’t get down because you ain’t working. And that was last year. So what we learned, and again, let me add this. In the paint business, you you’re bidding a year and a half, a year out, two years, like I just explained that sometimes. So we had to understand that. So when we first bought the company in 2024, we were so busy trying to perform the task that we weren’t thinking about future work. We were just trying to handle what was in front of us. Well, once we started getting towards the end, we looking up and saying, “Wait, what are we gonna do next year?” So now we start bidding. But those jobs take time and now that’s where we’re starting to see the fruits of those, of that labor is starting to come to fruition in twenty twenty-six and it’s gonna continue into twenty twenty-seven just because we bid forty-eight jobs in twenty twenty-five and now I got seven jobs right now that is giving me four million in revenue. You know what I’m saying? So again, it don’t take a lot of jobs, but if you’re bidding the right jobs, then again, your revenue for your company can grow pretty fast and you just gotta be able to handle the payroll, that’s the main thing.

Freddie Steen (15:26)
You gotta level with me. I’ve eaten Nick’s Pizza. What is the pre-work problem that you see most contractors are making? I’ve I’ve eaten the corner slice. Real estate pros wanna know what’s the one problem that they’re making?

Ramond Harris (15:38)
Man, it’s a big thing that we have in our community, especially is bonding and insurance. Bonding and insurance requires credit. And in order for you to be able to get bonded for a million dollar bond or to be able to be bonded for a two million dollar bond, you have to be credit worthy. And a lot of people in our community, you know what I’m saying, they don’t they they the– they they may have a lot of cash or they may have did what they had to do to get cash up, but now when the big companies come, they they’re asking for more than just your cashworthiness. They want to know what is your credit like because they may not pay you for ninety days. So you need to be able to have your– if you’re an HVAC contractor, your– your– your supplier still needs to supply you if they haven’t paid you for ninety days. That’s gonna be based on your personal credit. So as business owners in our community, we really need to focus on making sure that our credit is up to par and that we have not only reserves but just cash available to infuse in our business, and understand that you’re gonna get it back on the back end, but you gotta be able to put it out there up front. So you gotta do something to to build revenue.

Freddie Steen (16:40)
Now every operator I know has a moment where things got real. I mean maybe a deal that went sideways or a time they had to pivot fast. Yeah. You mind sharing one of those moments for you?

Ramond Harris (16:53)
Yeah, a hundred percent. Last year, so we first had gotten this commercial space, we’re doing a paint job. Like I said, a lot of people we we we we present ourselves as a catch-all, you know what I’m saying? So the– a company came to us, we were painting for big contract, they like, “Can you guys do electrical?” We like, “Yeah, we can do electrical.” So we hired these guys and moving not even moving too fast, just being green, we didn’t– we accepted their contract. So like they proposed the contract to us on the scope that we wanted and we used that as the contract. Well, they didn’t verbalize everything and didn’t do everything. So we ended up in court, long story short. So the contract was for about 180,000. Well, they sued us for 645,000. So they stated that their contract was just to install new devices and it wasn’t to remove any old devices. And the contract’s verbiage, because again, we use their contract, it did say that. But in the court of law, we ended up winning. We had to pay them like twenty grand just for all of it. I think our lawyer bills was like 35. It was stupid. But it was a lesson learned in contracts at this level. You you want to be the person that is in charge of the contracts. Even if somebody presents you something, you rewrite what they wrote on your letterhead and on your– with your legal team. So we we’ve gotten a lot better at making sure our lawyer goes over everything that we sign on these jobs’ behalf because that that turned into a year and a half. It was a nightmare, man. They held like 330,000 from us, from that job. And these guys are suing us for six hundred, but we never even– and I think we paid them one eighteen. So they were paid one eighteen, contract was one hundred eighty. We were in court for a year and a half because we didn’t do the contract right. So it was all our fault. And I would just encourage people out there to just make sure that you’re getting the proper guidance when it comes to your contracts and always make sure if you’re the person that’s subbing something out that you’re the person that’s initiating the contract and not them.

Freddie Steen (18:57)
Ramond, thank you for being so transparent and clearly your knowledge runs deep. You touched on a thing that I have to lift up because you’re being very humble. Yeah. You mentioned earlier in the pod that you are entrepreneurial based and you’ve had success in other industries. I believe you mentioned a very large company that begins with an F and ends with an X and in between E-D-E-X. Yes. Here’s what I want to ask you. Yep. My research team tells me that you have other companies that even do fix and flips. Yeah. Let me ask you what that’s been like having this stall, this star company of BR1 Quality Painting, and also being able to do multiple things if the job asked for it. Can you talk about that pivot that you made in your business? Yep.

Ramond Harris (19:28)
Yeah, so and that that literally came from the residential flip game. So being being a flipper like I’ve been, I have all the trades. I have to have everybody. I need a roofer, I need the gutter guy, I needed the garage door guy. You know what I’m saying? The foundation man. I need everybody. So when these companies are coming to me and they saying, “Hey, Ray,” I’m calling other business owners that I’ve done business with in the past. I don’t really have to search for– I’m not calling through the phone book trying to find people. Like my my phone game is pretty heavy and I’ve dealt with a lot of people. And my thing is keep your integrity high and you can go back and work with people that you worked with in the past. And I stand on that. So I try to make sure that we do great business. So that way anytime I call, people love to hear my– “Ray, what’s going on, baby? Tell me something.” And I’m– normally if I’m calling you, it’s some money on the floor. So I’ve taken my experience from the residential game and my network from the residential game and I’ve integrated it into our commercial business. And that’s what allows us to pick up some of these trades. Like again, I I got a power washing contract right now. I got a brick contract right now. I got a demo contract right now. But these are all contractors that I knew from the from my from my residential flipping. So those connections have transferred over into the commercial game and now we’re just doing stuff on scale. So I’m helping their businesses do big, big job. One of my my brick guy right now, his contract with me is 80 grand. I don’t know if he– I mean again he’s a small company, so I don’t know if he was doing 80 in a in two quarters. I won’t– I won’t– I won’t put him at as in a year. But I would say two quarters, I would say that that’s probably great for him for 80. And he got that on a job that should take six months. You know what I’m saying? So again, it’s like being able to help out my people that have helped me in the flipping game, it’s been great. And like I say, flips, I ha– I’m– I’m taking one on right now. Literally, I’m closing next week. And it’s crazy. It’s a squatter house that I’ve owned for a long time, but the squatter was in it. In Detroit, it’s hard to get squatters out. But I was actually able to get the dude out. A neighbor helped me get– It was crazy. Long story. We we get into that another day. But those experiences have helped me in my commercial game heavily and I I couldn’t be more grateful for–

Freddie Steen (21:46)
–experiences and pivoting. That’s the kind of stuff that people don’t talk about enough, Ray. And honestly, it’s what separates the folks who just dabble from the ones who stay in the game long term, like you. Yeah. Let me ask you this, Ray. What are you most focused on solving or scaling next? So much, you’re doing so well. What’s the next real goal for you?

Ramond Harris (22:10)
All right, so the next thing is I’m actually working on a– it’s gonna be a three-phase development. I actually got a call with the architect today at four o’clock. First time I’ve ever done new development. I was presented an opportunity from the mayor of Inkster, Mr. Wimbley, who is running for Congress. If y’all voting August fourth, if you’re in Michigan, August fourth, Mayor Wimbley. But Mayor Wimbley proposed that I do a multifamily development in the city of Inkster. We have a four-year waiting list in the city of Inkster for low-income housing. So I’m not gonna– I’ve been told by my advisors to stop using the word low-income housing and use workforce housing. So I’ll be looking to do a 48-unit development of workforce housing right in the city of Inkster. It’ll be off Inkster Road and Michigan Avenue, probably 15 minutes away from the Metro Airport. And I actually– they– they’ve given– or we’re in talks, I guess I’ll just I’ll keep it like that. We’re in talks for 15 acres is the site that they want me to develop. So my my forty-eight is kind of small for the site. So I’m gonna have to do multi-phases. That’s why I got the meeting today with the architects. I got multiple architects trying to jump on the project, so it’s been great. Major support from the city of Inkster, so that’s been a blessing as well. So my next step is just to become a developer. I think that housing is a need. Single-family has been fun, but as I renovate these commercial spaces, I see the need. As we’re renovating this stuff, they’re they’re rented out months before the the the jobs are complete. So when I spoke to the city mayor and he’s telling me, “Ray, it’s a four-year waitlist for the city of Inkster.” So by the time you get construction going, we could probably have those units filled before, before you even finish. That really motivated me to say, “Hey, this this could be an opportunity.” And like I stated, they’ve they’ve afforded me fifteen acres. So now I gotta make my development bigger than what I anticipated. Which again is a fun– another fun challenge. I’m blessed to to to be stewarded an opportunity like that. So just just excited. That’s my next thing. I’m trying to do a development, three phases. I’m working with some cool people, they got some great ideas. I gotta figure out capital stack. I meet with that person on Friday, some capital stack people. So it’s all new to me, but it’s fun. You know what I’m saying? It’s new information. Every day I’m I’m learning. All the different grants that’s available, all of the different the NEZ zones and C-PACE and just all of these acronyms and words. I’m just learning them. I’m taking them in, just trying to take notes. Again, using ChatGPT heavy to try to make sure that I I’m understanding what they’re saying and I’m giving them back what they’re asking me for. I I’ve– I’ve went in front of the city already. They pretty much approved the project. I gotta get a little bit further and then I’m gonna go in front of City Council and we’re gonna actually propose it to the city of Inkster. But the the leadership has already pretty much greenlighted it. So now we just gotta get the approval from the actual community. And that’s where I’m at next. Playing offense, baby.

Freddie Steen (24:56)
Ray, Inkster, that’s big. I can say transparently that almost twenty years ago, yeah, I am the person who worked with the mayor’s office in Inkster to start the first Inkster Smooth Jazz Festival with WVMV. Shout out to Mason who was the DJ there. So big ups to Inkster, did the first Smooth Jazz Fest there. Let’s go. Especially when you’ve already got your foothold in in in rentals. Yeah. If you have your foothold in commercial painting, I mean, all of that’s in place. I mean, the next move can either compound things, yeah, or create chaos depending on how you play it. Now I– Ray, I know a lot of people listening, yeah, are either earlier in their journey or looking to level up like you. Yeah. And I think they benefit from hearing this. When it comes to building relationships.

Ramond Harris (25:49)
Yeah, hundred percent.

Freddie Steen (25:54)
Yeah. And growing your network. Ray, what’s made the biggest difference for you?

Ramond Harris (26:00)
Being authentic. I’m a man of God, but I’m from the hood though. So I I I I– I put– I blend both into who I am. I let that shine through and people know that I I do what I say I’m gonna do. I try to be high on integrity. I teach my kids that: integrity, integrity, integrity, because if I do what I say I’m gonna do, I can get the opportunity to do it again. And that’s what I try to do in my business. Again, it’s it’s it’s the same thing over and over again, whether we flipping houses, whether we acquire rental properties, I got ten rental properties. So again, over time I’m just constantly grabbing up rentals, flipping houses, grab a rental. Flip a house, grab a rental. So again, it’s it’s doing the same thing and and and and doing it consistently. I wake up every morning and I run every day. I don’t care where I’m at. Why? Because it just keeps my consistent flow. I do my Bible study every morning. And I would just say for people who are out here networking, just be authentic and be yourself. Don’t try to be someone else. If you’re from– if you got a southern accent, let your southern accent shine through. If you if you from a Detroit or Chicago type of area, it’s all good. Like don’t don’t let that hinder you because people want to hear what you have to say, but you also have to educate yourself. I’m very heavy on reading, I read a lot. It’s it’s no way that I can do this stuff without outside information influencing me. So I– you gotta read, there’s there’s no way to get to these levels without standing on the shoulders of giants. I have to do that, you know what I’m saying? Because again, my dad– my dad is a high school dropout. So my dad couldn’t teach me what I know, you know what I mean? So I had to go out and go figure it out. You know what I mean? So if if you want more for yourself, be willing to put the time and invest into yourself to get those outcomes that you want to see.

Freddie Steen (27:33)
Yeah, you can’t fake that. I mean, relationships– relationships are everything, that’s it in this in this space. All right, before we wrap, if someone wanted to reach out from Victoria Park to Ecorse—yes, sir—from Inkster to Grand Rapids to the UP to the world, Ray, what’s the best way for them to reach?

Ramond Harris (27:44)
From Grosse Pointe to Southfield. You– I’m on I’m on Instagram, @mroffensedaily. You can reach me there. I’m on Facebook, Ramond Harris, just my name, Ramond Harris. I got a wife, three kids, so you’ll see our picture on there. Those are two easiest. I got an email address, I got a phone number contact, you can call me. It’s whatever– do y’all give out phone numbers? It’s it’s whatever. However– however the audience normally does it, I’m down. My contact information, my phone number is (734) 891-7954. I love to talk. I love to talk real estate. I love to talk business in general. So if you got any questions or want to holler at me, I’m always available. Email is my first name, [email protected]. Again, I’m very, very straightforward. All my stuff is pretty simple. So yeah, you can reach out to me in those ways. I I I like to grow, I like to network, I like to know people that’s doing stuff. If you’re a guy that’s on the on the sideline, I’m a guy that can help motivate to get you off the sideline. I love talking to those type of people as well. A person who just needs a nudge in whatever the capacity. If you’re a– if you’re a– I’ve been a wholesaler before. I’ve been a– before I was a flipper, I was a wholesaler. So I’ve done 19 wholesale deals in a year. I’ve done that. So it– I I’ve I’ve done pretty much every area of this business you can do. I’m heavy on knocking doors. I’m an auction guy. So I’m an auction dog, like you spoke about Mr. Coleman Young. Our auction is held there every week. So I’m always at the Coleman A. Young Municipal Center getting you getting getting addresses so we can go knock some doors and try to get some new addresses. So I’m about anything as far as real estate. I’ve I’ve done everything from driving for dollars to to knocking doors. So I I’m I’m open to to anybody who wants to reach out. And that’s me, I’m Ray Harris.

Freddie Steen (29:38)
Ramond Harris represents everything that one would know growing up in the Midwest. I grew up in Ohio, but in Detroit, it’s all about knowledge, brilliance, and excellence. Of which, Ramond, you embody all of that. And for those of you tuning in, let me thank Ramond and his children for sharing with us his knowledge and his time. If you got value from this, make sure you’re subscribed. I mean, we’ve got more conversations coming with operators just like Ramond Harris, who are multi-talented, multifaceted, and they’re building real businesses just like you listening. We’ll see you on the next episode. Thank you, Ramond.

Ramond Harris (30:18)
No problem. Have a great day, guys.