The Truth About Borrower Needs: Unique Approach Explained

Stephen S. (00:03.023)
Welcome back to the real estate investors show where we interview the nation’s leading real estate entrepreneurs If you’re joining us for the first time you’re in for a treat today And if you’re joining us for the second third or hundredth time You know, you’re already coming back for the treat that you get every time you listen It’s your host Stephen Schmidt and I am here with Ryan Williams today and we’re gonna have an incredible conversation about

real estate and business funding and his extensive experience in both spaces. He’s the founder of ION Capital Solutions and is doing some big things in the commercial real estate industry that almost nobody else is doing. So before we hop into it, just remember at Investor Fuel, we help real estate investors, service providers and real estate entrepreneurs, two to five extra businesses to allow them to build the businesses they’ve always wanted to allow them to live the lives they’ve always dreamed of. That being said, Ryan Williams, welcome to the show today.

Ryan Williams (00:57.902)
Thank you so much for having me, Steve, appreciate it.

Stephen S. (01:00.305)
Man, so I’m excited to talk to you about our topic today. But before we get started, can you share just a little bit about yourself and how you got here?

Ryan Williams (01:07.032)
Yeah, absolutely. I’ve been in the lending space for 11 years. I’m focused in on the general business and real estate finance side of things. So essentially, I’m helping businesses start up, active businesses, cash flow, service debt. I’m helping with acquisitions, mergers. On the real estate side,

I’m working with real estate investors, wholesalers, contractors, and their funding needs, whether it be on the residential side, the commercial side. There’s a lot we do for contractors as they frequently borrow money for a living, but being in the space for…

for as long as I have been, I’ve kind of learned where to focus, where the money is, where the pain is, right, where people need the most help. you know, most people in my space that get started are kind of focused in on the business side, the merchant cash advance, you know, credit card stacking, equipment financing, the typical products you’ll see. And on the real estate side, usually focused on hard money for your residential purchases, whether they be flips or they’re refinancing them into long

holds Airbnb’s, whatever it may be. I’ve graduated from that level of brokering and moved into larger projects. so through my experience, I’ve learned what to do, what not to do where again, right, where the money is so to speak, right? And years ago, I started a business loan brokerage and I also created a business loan broker.

training program and I married the two together because I noticed that there were just lots of people like myself who wanted to go in a business for themselves online. But what separated me from other people was that I had actually worked in the industry working for lenders, whereas other people trying to get involved in the industry didn’t work in the industry at all. They were just watching YouTube video, trying to kind of figure out how this thing works. So I thought, why not put the two together? And that was really the origin story. And along the way, I very quickly found out that real estate investors just have so

Ryan Williams (03:19.202)
much low hanging fruit around them, their own deal flow, the people that they’re already doing business with and all the deal flow surrounding them and quickly just became a whole lot of business and we’ve been very fortunate and successful and I appreciate the opportunity to share some of that success today.

Stephen S. (03:37.415)
Yeah, 100%. So tell me this, I mean, you don’t look 25, but you don’t look 60 either. So is this like first career for you? I know you said you’ve been doing this for about 11 years in total. Like, how did you really get that start that then led you to where you’re at now?

Ryan Williams (03:50.488)
Sure, sure. So I’m actually turning 40 next month. So I get often enough people think I’m younger than I am until they hear me speak. And then they’re like, wait a minute, how old are you? Yep, yep. So the top of my head tells a different story. My age shows, but you know, from the front profile, you know, I’m still, we’ll see how these live, these wrinkles go, but.

Stephen S. (04:03.242)
Yeah, right. You’re like, your knees crick too.

Ryan Williams (04:17.038)
I was in the advertising space, television advertising space, working in New York City. I was trying to make my way in the world and sales was new to me. I wasn’t great at it to start. The industry quickly started taking a turn towards digital and inventory and it all but.

Stephen S. (04:22.771)
No kidding.

Ryan Williams (04:40.492)
you know, became completely rehauled to the point where you don’t really need salesmen in that industry anymore. It’s just sort of inventory based. It’s more of a, you know, agency. Any business can just go on the online platform, see what’s available, what channels you want to put your ad on, that kind of thing. it wasn’t for me, I got into the game too late. I needed to jump into something else. So there, a business loan, know, there were, were merchant cash advance firms, right? That, that were out there. I didn’t even know what a merchant cash advance was. I didn’t know, you know, business funding.

that, you I didn’t know anything about it, but I took a job I needed to learn, you know, and so I worked in a calling center, making my 300 calls a day, you know, pounding the phones, talking to business owners about do you need money for your business? at first I was nervous, a bit shy.

I quickly learned you can’t be that way. And I was surrounded by wolves. So I became one of the wolves, right? And I actually had a talent for it. I articulated myself well on the phone and I understood what was needed for me, which is initially just a basic survey with the client, getting them to talk to a closer where the closer is gonna bring in the documents, right? Which is just front end close. But in any event, I did well, ended up becoming that closer, collecting docs, being able to go through the whole front end.

good at that to the point where I became a team leader and eventually whip on the floor where I managed the calling center itself. And I understood the front end of the business, but I didn’t know where, how the marketing worked, where did these leads come from? How did the backend work and processing? And so the companies that I worked for, some were willing to allow me to see behind the scenes, others weren’t. So I had to move where I could learn more about the business. took a job in processing and underwriting, and I learned the backend of the business. And I was exposed to more products beyond merchants.

cash advances and term loans and equipment financing and started moving into credit card stacking and secured funding to consolidate debt and service debt and agriculture lending for seasonal businesses like farms that can’t get funding from your typical merchant cash advance lender, which is focused on year round retail type business, right? And so I understood, I started to learn about what financials are we collecting. That’s all that matters with these deals. And a lot of borrow

Ryan Williams (06:59.502)
or is listening in on the podcast right now, they’ve been in that position, right? Where it’s kind of like, okay, these are the documents you need to see from me. I submit everything, I get an approval or I don’t, or the rates here, why? You I don’t understand the process.

I learned that process, right? What is it that we’re looking for when we evaluate financials and how are we calculating affordability? Where are we seeing the risk? And what’s that range of rates and why do they get the higher rate or the lower rate or the longer term or the shorter term, right? And I learned that aspect of the business and…

then I wanted to learn about the money side. How are these guys raising money? Because I had aspirations of becoming a lender myself, except I’m not a trust fund kid, right? I don’t have all this money to just start lending out to people. how do I leverage money so that I can build my own shop and then fund?

I got involved in syndication, which is where most private money is raised from. It’s a network, friends, family, former colleagues, even people who work for the company put money into deals. That cash is then distributed out.

Right? You protect your money through a dilution. It’s not just your money in the deal. It’s a multitude of partners that way and your money spread out in lots of different deals. So that way, if one of the borrowers runs with the money, you have plenty of money in other deals. There’s plenty of return for your ROIs guaranteed. And that’s how it worked. anyway, I went through all of this and I didn’t need to work for anybody anymore. There was really not much more for me to learn. So it really became more about, okay, how do I go into business for myself?

Stephen S. (08:18.195)
Hmm.

Stephen S. (08:28.072)
Hmm.

Ryan Williams (08:35.226)
That’s when I started seeing these online coaching programs, build your own business, right? Whatever it may be, right? Be getting into crypto, wholesaling, real estate investment, business loan, brokering, whatever. And I quickly realized that these programs are very, very, very shallow. It’s more about facilitating your online shop. It’s less about what it takes to actually run it.

And so what I realized is, you and I always look at it, I’m a hockey player, right? Or I was a hockey player, I should say, long time ago, once upon a time. If you said to me, hey, Ry, I wanna be the world’s best ice hockey player, what do I have to do? I said, yeah, follow me to the pro shop. I put you in head to toe gear and I slapped a New York Rangers jersey on you and you looked the part, you certainly looked the part, right? But I pushed you on the ice, you fall flat on your face. That’s what happens to most people when they buy into coaching programs. They never worked in the industry.

they buy in and it doesn’t work out. And they’re like, get all frustrated and mad. And it’s because they’re focused in on building that storefront or with my silly analogy, buying all of the equipment. The equipment doesn’t matter. Spending all that money doesn’t matter. You just need to learn how to stand on your own two feet, take a step, take two steps, go forwards, backwards, turn, right? The silly hockey analogy and the other side of things to get more serious. know, what are the different products? Who are the different lenders?

not just a couple, but the actual national grid of the marketplace, right? What are the different marketing methods from paid to, you know, down to free and the different strategies and how does that actually work? How do you qualify borrowers? What is the conversation you’re having with them? Not just asking and recording answers, but actually comprehending the answers that they’re giving you and then understanding what additional questions you need to ask.

What documents and financials do you need to collect in order to determine eligibility for funding, et cetera, right? So these are the things that you really need to focus on and learn. And then there’s the learning curve of information. How do you house and organize that information of a language you don’t speak? That’s the focus. That’s what people need to learn. And then there’s the deals themselves, which there’s so much nuance around. And so what we do is we basically do it for our students.

Ryan Williams (10:54.936)
We give them a foundation, we hold their hand, they shadow, they listen, they learn, and over time they become that person and they invest back into themselves as they cashflow in the marketplace, leveraging our platform, which is the safe approach because they’re investing back into success. They’re not investing in future success and then trying to dig themselves out of a hole, if that makes sense.

Stephen S. (11:17.083)
Yeah, 100%. So like, let me ask you this, like how are investor expectations and like your expectations of getting into a deal? How is that evolving like in the current market climate?

Ryan Williams (11:29.838)
Can you ask that question again? I want to make sure I answer it right.

Stephen S. (11:32.541)
Yeah, for sure. how are the expectations of when you get into a deal and maybe this is business or real estate, right? But what are the expectations that you guys are having in a deal? How is that evolving in the current market’s climate right

Ryan Williams (11:47.224)
Sure, sure, understood. Thank you for clarifying.

First of all, the economy is what it is. Everything is more expensive, right? So borrowers are coming in with the expectation of, I want my cost to be what it was yesterday, I don’t want today’s cost, right? Brokers are coming into it with the mindset, geez, my clients are very fee sensitive, I feel like there’s less room for me to make a buck.

Stephen S. (11:57.928)
Right.

Stephen S. (12:08.649)
Hmm.

Ryan Williams (12:20.654)
lenders are coming into it and saying, frankly, I don’t care what the broker wants or what the borrower wants. This is what we’re gonna offer based on the risk we’re dealing with and what’s competitive in today’s marketplace. And that’s just the truth of it. Everything is more expensive. Everyone’s costs go up, right? And when any retailer of any kind is getting people to pay a higher price,

and people continue to pay it, they’re not gonna bring that price down anytime soon. So that’s kind of what’s going on. Where we take it from there and how we manage expectations as consultants, as brokers, is part of the art of success, I’d say, in this business. You’ve gotta understand…

Stephen S. (13:06.505)
Mm.

Ryan Williams (13:11.446)
on all sides of the table, the thought process, the wants, the needs, the pain, the aspiration of who you’re dealing with. And you need to use that information and build ammunition towards the sale, ultimately. That is how it works. And so you’ve got to get ahead of expectations of worries and wants and needs and fear, and sometimes harness it to get your message across because make no mistake about it,

If you have a borrower who has expectations and you allow them to believe that those expectations are accurate, and then you come in with something different, they’re gone. They’re shopping, they’re leaving. You’re not gonna close a sale. So you’ve got to catch that very early on and correct the thinking of the borrower. But here’s the truest thing you’ll hear about this whole thing.

Most people who get into this business from a coaching program, as I described to you before, due to their lack of experience, don’t really know. They don’t know the answers to most questions. They don’t have the experience. They don’t know how things work. So what do they do? They compensate, right? They over promise, under deliver, right? They will lead the client on.

Stephen S. (14:24.68)
Mm.

right?

Ryan Williams (14:31.394)
this creates mistrust in the marketplace. That’s a problem. So there are charged armed borrowers now that feel uncomfortable going into transactions, to your point, with the expectation that they’re being lied to, they’re being manipulated, And this is something that, you you and I, we’re gonna get into as the conversation continues, but this happens a lot with commercial real estate projects.

which is something we should talk about.

Stephen S. (14:59.561)
Hmm.

Ryan Williams (15:03.65)
borrowers in a bad way with a lot of pressure on them with no way out dealing with brokers that lack experience is a real problem. And this happens to businesses as well. And so what we do, what I’ve learned to focus on is I like working those types of deals. It can help people and rescue them from an otherwise bad situation. To be flat out and honest, there’s plenty of money in it.

Stephen S. (15:23.721)
Hmm.

Ryan Williams (15:31.79)
for me to earn at the end of the day, it’s all business, we’re all trying to make money. But our ear is to the ground, we’re active in the marketplace, we know what to do with these expectations, we know how to help distressed borrowers. And in today’s day and age where more than 85 % of businesses are being declined by banks, there’s a lot of distressed borrowers out there.

Stephen S. (15:57.907)
So let’s just dive right, that’s perfect segue to start talking about the commercial real estate, new brokers, et cetera. Tell me some of the things that you’re seeing, some of those problems that you mentioned that get created when those relationships.

Ryan Williams (16:12.204)
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. First of all, especially when it comes to real estate investment, right, we all know that lenders wanna see the investor have skin in the game, right, so that investor’s going into their pocket, or they’re reaching into equity, into a property they own, or they’re raising cash with JV partners, friends, family, whatever, getting that initial cash. They’re then using lender cash to bring to the table for the purchase, the acquisition of the property.

The problem is a lot of times commercial real estate investors do this believing in the project. They have people interested in the project, usually more the exit than the project itself. But they need to raise additional capital to complete the remodel, to go vertical, right? Whatever it may be. And whatever unforeseen challenges that it may face, right? They thought a project was gonna wrap up.

in autumn and it carries over through the winter. And now there’s some problems, homeless moving into industrial building, lighting fires to stay warm. Next thing you know, the building caught fire, right? Whatever it may be. And they need more money. The problem is they run out of time. They run out of money. So they can’t pay their loans back. They’re defaulting. Now they have lenders coming after them, lawyers coming after them for the money that they have not paid back.

I may have large pieces of land, industrial projects just sitting there, which attracts homeless crime, right? There are contractors that will go in there and strip pipes and parts and whatever and try and bring them into another project. Like I said, if you have homeless in there, there’s crime, there’s fires is a big thing in the winter where they’re trying to stay warm. They will light fires inside the place. There’s smoke damage, there’s fire damage.

It’s a problem. And then don’t forget about termites and vermin and you know, whatever else moving in there. This brings down the value of properties in the surrounding area. This pisses off the city and the city wants to get them out of there. They want to condemn the building, right? Whatever it may be. These types of projects are in a bad way. And the borrower has the expectation that they’re going to find somebody who’s just going to give them another loan and it’s all, it’s going to be done.

Ryan Williams (18:28.952)
problem with that mindset is only stupid money gets in line, right? They’re gonna come in and say, okay, you owe these guys money, you owe these guys money, and you haven’t paid them back. Now I’m gonna get in line and give you money, it to say you’re not gonna pay me back, because what’s gonna happen is I’m gonna give you the cash to finish the project, you’re gonna take that cash and pay off your debt, and then you’re gonna be stuck needing more cash to finish the project, and now I’m gonna be in the position they are. It’s not gonna happen.

Stephen S. (18:36.009)
sure.

Ryan Williams (18:58.497)
So.

With my experience in the marketplace and seeing a lot of this, I understand that if we can help people in this situation and bring solutions to the table that actually help people out of this situation by actually taking out the debt, by actually giving them the additional capital they need to complete that project, this is gonna solve problems for a lot of people. Obviously, the borrower actually gets to the exit and makes the money instead of having to claim bankruptcy, right?

The city finally gets that project completed, right? The lenders get their money back. They’re thrilled about it, right? Everybody wins. But the only way to do this is if we come in and we take a piece of the deal and we take control of the deal to some extent. And it depends on how, what shape the deal is. In other words, we may come in and take a big chunk of equity. We may come in and take a smaller chunk of equity. It just depends on what is the pain.

What is the problem preventing this borrower from getting funded? And then on the construction side of things, we need to look into the deal and make sure that they have the components necessary to actually complete the project, because it’s all in the exit. What is the point of hypothetical equity in an exit that never occurs? You need to make sure you get to the finish line. So we’re involved in projects in LA, after the fires and whatever else happened, you need to make sure that these are flame retardant buildings. You need to make sure that the next time this happens,

the home’s not gonna burn down. You need to make sure it’s insurable. These are things you need to think about. If you have properties that are in rural areas, you need to do what it takes to protect the building to make sure that it’s not gonna get torn to pieces by termites, right? Or you need to make sure that the foundation is set correctly and not sinking because of the area it’s in, whatever it may be. So not only will we come in and say, hey, we’re gonna bring the cash to the table to take out your debt to…

Ryan Williams (20:55.33)
give you the cash to finish the project, to get you to the finish line, but we’re also gonna bring experts in that are gonna ensure that this project is handled correctly and completed in a timely manner and is gonna actually reach that finish line. Because sometimes, let’s be honest, people get in over their heads, they get excited about something that they weren’t really prepared to finish. And a lot of the time what we find is investors just wanna get out, buy me out, you know, whatever, and we’re okay with that. Other investors,

want to go the distance and they have the expertise, they just need that little bit of help and that’s okay too. So anyway, no one else is really doing this. You’ll have JV partners that will come in that’ll bring money to the table, but they want to squeaky clean deal. They just want to get money in, get money out and be done with it. Lenders won’t go near deals like this because all they care about is the qualifications of the borrower. We are unique in that we will actually come in and say, we don’t care about a low

credit score, we don’t care about default. We don’t care about the issues with the deal. We have all the components needed to complete the deal. We just want to look at the property, really. We want to see what you’re working with, if we like the property, if what we’re working with is good and you seem like you’re mentally and emotionally stable, you know, we’ll partner up with you on this thing. We know all the lenders in the country. We’ll get them paid, we’ll get them done. We’ll meet with the city, we’ll do whatever it takes, you know, so.

Stephen S. (22:01.897)
Hmm.

Ryan Williams (22:19.116)
That’s really the focus. There’s a tremendous amount of money in it for me and my team on my side. There’s, we literally saved the day for the borrower on their side. We’re helping the city achieve what they need to achieve. We’re getting the lender their money back. Everybody wins.

Stephen S. (22:35.581)
So it ultimately sounds like you’re solving a multi-faceted problem.

Ryan Williams (22:43.468)
Yes, that otherwise cannot be serviced, yes.

Stephen S. (22:45.351)
which is right. so and there’s nobody else doing this that you’ve seen.

Ryan Williams (22:53.758)
I have yet to lose a deal like this due to a competitor. I won’t go as far as to say that no one else is doing it, but I have yet to lose a deal to a competitor who’s offering the same thing. Most of the time money comes in and money just wants money and that’s it. They don’t wanna bring expertise to the table. They don’t wanna roll their sleeves up and grab a shovel. They don’t wanna deal with it. They don’t. They just wanna, know, do you meet my loan parameters?

Stephen S. (22:58.441)
Really.

Ryan Williams (23:22.082)
You know, can I get a return? Okay, great. You know, and here’s something for everybody to hear. This is the truth of it. Everybody wants private money, right? Private money, private money. What’s your source? Is it a bank? it, know, is it, about private money? Private money, that guy, that Donald duck swimming in a pool of gold coin, right? He’s not in it for a little bit of money. He’s not interested in giving you your five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11 %

interest rate, he doesn’t care about that. He didn’t get to, or he or she I should say, didn’t get to where they are by making little bitty amounts of money. No, no. They want, they want, you know, in the loan itself, yeah, they want their, you know, they’re gonna maybe want 13, 14, 15, 16%, whatever it may be. And that’s just the loan. Then on the equity side, they want.

10, 20, 30, 40 % equity. That’s a lot of money. That’s what they do. Or they look for buyouts, whether it be with businesses or large investment projects that they think they can make a big return on. That’s the truth. That’s what private money wants. People think there’s this person out there that’s just got a big heart that says, look at this poor individual in a bad situation. I’m gonna give you a 3 %…

interest rate over an extended term and you you missed payments, don’t worry about it and here you go and you’re gonna finish your project and make a hundred million dollars. No, it doesn’t work like that. Money is cold, know? Money is, that’s just the truth of it. Everybody’s in it to make money. And so what I find is the borrowers that are realistic about their situation and have realistic, again, to your point, expectations.

we can get a deal done very easily. Because they come and listen, as an equity component, we gotta attract money, I get it, I’m willing to give away this piece, or hey, if you guys need a little bit more, we can talk about it, figure it out. I understand the rate’s gonna be a little bit more expensive given the risk in the deal that you’re doing a takeout, whatever else. I just gotta get this project done, full disclosure, my credit took a hit, I’m in the low 600s now from the high 700s because of the debt I’m carrying in the default.

Stephen S. (25:15.975)
Hmm.

Ryan Williams (25:40.43)
the city’s breathing down my neck, I have litigation issues, I’m facing bankruptcy, this is the amount of time I have before I have to get the process rolling with BK just to buy enough time to finish the project, can you get it done with them? Those are the best clients because we know what we’re dealing with, we can come in, we can save the day. The worst kind of clients are, don’t wanna pay an appraisal fee, I don’t wanna pay an underwriting fee or title search, I don’t.

I don’t wanna give any equity away and I want this, I want that. It’s like, good luck to you. You’re gonna be in big trouble, you’re gonna call me back and you’re not gonna have enough time. You’re gonna be a week out from bankruptcy. I’m gonna say, sorry, could have helped you a month ago, two months ago, but you didn’t wanna listen. Yeah, it’s an interesting, interesting thing, but these projects are everywhere, everywhere.

Stephen S. (26:35.689)
Hmm.

Ryan Williams (26:38.21)
You know, it’s large residential portfolio, it’s industrial commercial, it happens a lot, you know? It even happens for business. I’m sorry, go ahead.

Stephen S. (26:45.405)
How does someone find a deal like this? Like if somebody wanted to bring you a deal, like how does somebody even find one of these types of deals?

Ryan Williams (26:52.822)
So there are various methods of marketing that we teach to people. It’s rare that an individual getting started in this space, or even somebody active in this space, has a lot of cash and expertise to build a revenue engine. Revenue engine meaning they’re running ads, they know what they’re doing and how to run ads, they’re actually creating the ad itself. They then have a logic form that’s built that people can fill.

that takes them to a landing page with a video that they recorded, which asks for documents. Then they have their calling center and text and email campaigns built through Go High Level or whatever CRM they use that reaches out to people that opt in through that funnel. And they have the team behind them to make all of that work. It’s very expensive. There are people that buy data. So you can buy UCCs.

you can get it, which is uniform commercial code, right? It’s filed with somebody who borrows money, but you have to know how to append and overlay that type of data to actually get the right type of leads. There is search intent. So there are people who are actively searching keywords. So you know they’re looking for what it is you’re offering. There are lead providers that have their own opt-in revenue engines.

built already, which, bit of a shady game, they all say exclusivity, and usually it’s not so exclusive. And so you’ve gotta kinda know who to deal with, who not to deal with. We’ll give you data that typically a 72 hour aged opt-in is the best type of lead to buy from somebody who’s got their own revenue engine. The 30, 60, 90 day leads are crap. The live transfer leads are crap. Anybody doing that, stop doing that immediately.

You can buy business card type data. There’s no real intent there, but you may get lucky. It’s just a lot of volume, but there’s deals there. What I like to start people off with is organic multi-platform lead generation. It’s essentially generating leads for free online, leveraging platforms like LinkedIn, Facebook, email sequencing, scavenging.

Ryan Williams (29:13.006)
There’s a regimented process, there’s limits of what you can and can’t do. We’ve got it broken down to science. If you want to scale, it’s by account, not by numbers. It’s free. There’s some cheap automation tools that are quality of life that automate outreach. Those are the ways that you can find deals like this. And we provide messaging and text scripts, email scripts, phone call scripts, you know, for people to follow.

Stephen S. (29:39.835)
Mm, love it. Well, and Ryan, thank you so much for joining us today. If anybody wants to learn more about you or what you’re

Ryan Williams (29:48.664)
IonCapitalsolutions.com, that’s I-O-N as in Nancy.

Stephen S. (29:55.111)
There you go, go connect with them for more. And are you on social media, LinkedIn, Instagram, anything like that where you post about what you do?

Ryan Williams (30:01.452)
Yeah, absolutely. I do have a YouTube channel or Ion Capital Loan Broker University, a Facebook group as well, same name. But if you visit us at ioncapitalsolutions.com, everything is centralized there. can see, we have tons of content, tons of testimonials, a full breakdown of what it is we’re doing, lot of content.

Stephen S. (30:21.395)
There you go folks, go connect with him for more and if you do do that and maybe send him a deal, let him know that Steven from Investor Fuel sent him over to you so that way maybe I get a little bit of love on the back end there too. A little bit of to make me feel better or something, never know what will happen, right? But everyone, I hope you enjoyed today’s show and we’ll see you on the next episode. Ryan, thanks again for being here.

Ryan Williams (30:37.611)
Absolutely.

Ryan Williams (30:42.178)
Thank you so much. Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. Take care, everybody.