Hey everybody, I’m excited to have you here with us! Today, I have my good friend, Mark Filler with me. He has rich experience and a background around lending and he’s also a real estate investor. Today, we are going to talk about finding deals without spending money on advertising. Lot’s of great nuggets in today’s episode, let’s get started!
[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Excited to have you here with us today. I have my good friend Mark filler. He has a rich experience in the background, really around lending, but he’s also a real estate investor. And today we’re going to talk about a topic that everybody should pay close attention to, which is finding deals without spending money on advertising.
So I’m big on advertising because it helps kind of fill your funnel. And I talk a lot about it and we talk about lead generation a lot, but the sweetest leads are the ones that you don’t have to pay for, that you get through relationships.
real estate investors know that it’s not really about the real estate. That real estate is just a vehicle to freedom. A group of over a hundred of a nation’s leading. Real estate investors from across the country meet several times a year at the investor fuel. You’ll save mastermind to share ideas on how to strengthen each other’s
but also to come together as friends and build more [00:01:00] fulfilling lives.
For all of those around us. On today’s show, we’re going to continue our conversation of fueling our businesses and our lives. I’m glad you’re here.
Hey Mark, welcome to the show.
Mark: [00:01:19] Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Mike: [00:01:21] Yeah, glad to have you here. And so, uh, excited to have you kind of share some of your insights today. You guys do a lot of volume. I know you have a lot of big projects going on now. You guys, you’re in Chicago, you guys do really heavy, big, uh, rehabs.
And the cool thing about it is you find all of them through relationships
Mark: [00:01:37] right. Almost almost a little, little bit of seller direct marketing, but most of it’s relationship driven.
Mike: [00:01:43] Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, that’s great because, uh, you know, real estate investors tend to be kind of lazy and we just, sometimes they just throw money at stuff and hope it’ll work.
But, um, the reality is, is it’s harder work to network, but after you get a system and process down and you start to build some of those, some of those relationships, the good thing about the relationship marketing is [00:02:00] you could get repeat business from it where direct to seller marketing, you don’t. It’s not impossible, but you don’t get as much
Yeah. So it’s going to be a great discussion. So before we get started, tell us about your, your background. I know you have a really rich background before you kind of found your way into real estate investing, but take a couple minutes to just tell us about your background.
Mark: [00:02:19] Yeah. I started, I started off my career as a lawyer.
And I spent about five, five years as a lawyer, and then I was about, I was about 30 years old and I woke up and I said to myself, I don’t have any family money. So I knew I had to work for another 30 years or so. And I just said I was kind of bored, bored being a lawyer and it w I was making good money and.
Things were going well and all that, but I would just kind of bored. So I decided to do something more entrepreneurial. And a friend of mine convinced me to start a mortgage company. So we started a mortgage company and we grew it actually very, quite large. We took it, we did an IPO, we took it public, we [00:03:00] sold it to Royal bank of Canada, and then I started a couple more and mortgage companies.
So I’ve been about 25 years in the mortgage business, and then about 10 years, about 10 years ago. I, I decided to get into hard money lending. I started a hard money lender and that was called Jordan capital, and those named after my ed named after my son Jordan. And we grew that from, from scratch to become one of the largest national hard money lenders.
Ended up selling it to Blackstone. In 2017 that company, Blackstone, when they bought it from us, they renamed it. They didn’t like the name Jordan capital, so they leave. They renamed it something much more professional called finance of America commercial. So a lot of you guys know that they’re one of the.
Largest lenders in the country right now called finance of America commercial in, but in 2017 when I sold the business I had, I wasn’t the, I had a noncompete in conjunction with the [00:04:00] sale, so I wasn’t allowed to do any lending. So then I said to myself, well, what am I going to, what am I going to do? Since really the only thing I know anything about is lending.
And because we had been lending to flippers, that was the main, the main business was lending to flippers and lending to landlords, but most, most of the flippers, I had learned a lot about flipping just because that was so weird who we were lending to instantly. I was constantly meeting with our customers and trying to understand their business, and I decided that I liked their business more than I liked the lending business.
And so I S I. S I decided one day to become a house Weber. And if somebody had told me. Then I was going to be a house flipper. I probably would have killed myself actually. But, uh, but I decided it was, it was actually looked like a lot of fun and I saw a lot of clients making good money and having, you know, having a good life.
And it also afforded me some of the flexibility to do some other things like. [00:05:00] Skiing and other things, and being with my family, we can say I would like to do so. It started about two years ago and we, so we’ve been flipping houses for about two years now. I think we’re the largest flipper in Chicago and Chicago and Illinois, like we do about a hundred or a hundred deals a year or 10 deals or 10 deals a month.
Most of our deals are full rehab. So our average rehab is almost a hundred thousand dollars. We do a little little bit of wholesale and we’ll get into more of the details and I can explain kind of why we’re doing more, a lot more rehabs and we are than we are doing wholesale. Um, so that’s kind of, that’s kind of my quick background on how I got into it.
About about 18 months ago. I found I got really, really lucky. I found I was, I was looking for a partner because again, I had no background in flipping, so I needed people that really knew the business [00:06:00] a thousand times better than I knew it. I had ideas, but I really need people that really had had a lot of experience doing it.
And so I got really lucky. I found a three, three partners. They were all really close, close buddies. May had already been partners together, so they were already doing it, but they, so they needed capital. So I kind of was the cap. I’ve kind of brought some capital, Mio, some of my own capital and the business, and then I helped raise about $5 million of private capital.
And, but, but really my three partners do the bulk of the work. They are, they have tons of experience. Uh, they’re, they’re awesome. I lo, I love working with them and I just got really, really lucky that we have a great partnership that’s worked out and everybody has a little bit of the wrong role in the partnership.
Mike: [00:06:52] Yeah. Real estate investing is a natural fit for partners because there’s so many. You know, a lot of us, a lot of real estate investors are small and they do [00:07:00] everything, but it’s real easy to kind of lay out on a, on a whiteboard of like the apartments of the company, whether it’s the financing part. Or lead generation or acquisitions, business operations.
You guys have a huge operation because you do such, you know, a hundred thousand dollar average rehab because we’re doing some heavy, heavy rehabs up there. Now I, you know, I’m from Chicago, I live, I moved from Chicago, I think, told you that before. So I know there’s a lot of old buildings, a lot of old properties, a lot of revitalization going on in, in older areas of town.
And so I, I know that the, you guys have to, you have to do a lot of really heavy rehabs there, right.
Mark: [00:07:32] Big. Yeah. Big, big picture. What we do is we have one of the partners who’s mostly focused on the construction side of the business. Another partners mostly focused on the acquisition side of the business, and then another partner is mostly focused on kind of the reporting, the back office, the operations, and the marketing side of the business.
Mike: [00:07:52] Right. Yup. Yup. So talk a little bit about, um, you guys have, have focused pretty heavily on the relationship [00:08:00] side for direct, kind of compared to a direct to seller marketing and direct mail PaperClick click, lots of other things you could do. Uh, you know, a part of my business has always been relationships about a third of my business, but you guys are at 100%, which there’s pros and cons
Mark: [00:08:14] to
Mike: [00:08:15] every, every type of acquisition.
But share some of the pros and cons and why you guys have chose up to this point, at least a primarily
Mark: [00:08:21] focused, yeah. We’re probably about 80%, but 80%. Um, well, no, let me actually, let me rephrase that. We’re, we’re very relationship based and, and we get probably half of our deals that way, but, but I forgot to mention to you, we, we, we still get half of our deals from the MLS.
Mike: [00:08:41] Okay. Wow.
Mark: [00:08:42] Yeah. So, so we, um, what happened is, and this is really a function of how we raised the money, when I went out to raise money from people. It was easy to say to people. I’m going to raise money to buy houses. And basically the collateral that they have is, [00:09:00] is the houses. But it was, it was, it would be a much more difficult sell to tell people I was going to raise money to do marketing cause.
Cause then there’s no collateral. Right. So what? So that’s kind of a key reason because of how we’ve raised our capital is a key reason, strategically why we do so much through the MLS and why we do so much with relationships. So, so in terms of, so, so again, half, let’s just say half is that MLS, one of my partners, the one who I mentioned is in charge of acquisitions.
He, he, he is just the guru of the MLS. He spends most of his day looking at deals, making, making offers. So we make, we make hundreds of offers a month. And if through the, through the MLS we have, we have some audit, we have some automated technology that helps us, helps us automate that process and make it more efficient.
But [00:10:00] then on, on the relationship side, it’s, it’s primarily real estate brokers. We all, we also, we also do, um, get deals from other O sailors, from wholesalers and real estate attorneys as well. And so we have a very, very heavy marketing to, to a relationship based marketing, text marketing as well as email.
We send out an email blast to our entire database twice a month. We also text our database once a twice a twice a month as well. So we’re, we’re reaching out to our database once a week, whether it’s email or texts. And again, that’s primarily real estate brokers. Sure, sure.
Mike: [00:10:43] So, Mark, do you think a, it seems like in Chicago, those are the markets probably like this, and, and the Northeast in New York and things like that where the houses are old, so the rehabs are heavy.
There’s a lot of, in Chicago there’s a lot of heavy permitting issues. And. Compliance stuff. Right. But that probably [00:11:00] weeds out. I mean, that’s, that’s one way you’re able to still get these deals off the MLS because there’s not, you got, not everybody has skin thick enough to deal with that, or how’s the access to capital to be able to do that in a big enough
Mark: [00:11:11] Right. I agree. That’s definitely one of our differentiators. And, and my partners had a lot of background doing that, so, so they were very comfortable with those. With those, you know, I would say kind of moderately heavy rehabs. We’re not doing. To win $300,000 rehabs, but we are, we are doing significant rehab and, and you’re right, there’s a lot.
I think there’s a lot of people in, are a lot more people in our market that are willing to do 10 $20,000 of cleanup and just quick rehab, but not, not nearly as many better. Maybe stupid enough for like we are doing
Mike: [00:11:47] well. Have you eliminated your competition by Duke by doing the hardest? Some of the hardest word that’s out
Mark: [00:11:52] there.
We had many people tell us we’re idiots for what we do because it is definitely, [00:12:00] that is challenges and we’ve learned lots of hard lessons and it was not easy because we were, when we were buying 10 houses a month and rehabbing them. That means we have a lot of contractors we’re dealing with. So everybody who’s in this business knows all this and knows the challenges of dealing with contractors.
But imagine if you’re trying to do 50 houses at once and dealing with contractors
Mike: [00:12:25] and in a market that’s notoriously heavy with, uh, permitting and, and compliance
Mark: [00:12:30] meetings, horrible PR, you’re, you’re completely or completely right. Permitting is horrible. The amount of. Time from the time we buy the property to the time we actually can really do the rehab is very frustrating.
We’re getting better at it and we’re very focused on it. We, and we’ve brought in architects to do the plans for us, speak to speed things up. Um, but it’s, it’s definitely, it’s, it’s taken, it’s regularly, takes longer than we hoped.
Mike: [00:12:57] Sure. Sure. So, so Mark, you said you do a lot with [00:13:00] agents and brokers, some attorneys, and then, you know, even wholesalers and buying on the MLS.
So probably not so much the MLS, but of course, realtors, you know, you would know this better than anyone, but, uh, they obviously have pocket listings and other deals sometimes that haven’t technically hit the MLS yet. You’re kind of like notifying them and building these relationships up so that if they come across a deal.
We’ll get into incentivize and incentives in just a moment here, like how you incentivize them to bring you deals. You’re trying to train people to like, Hey, come to us first. If you have a deal, we’ll make it really easy for you. Right? Yeah. So, um. Let’s talk a little bit about your outreach. You talked about you send out emails, you send out text messages.
I know you guys have some kind of happy hours and parties and events where you pull people together and to keep kind of nurturing that relationship. Talk. Talk a little bit about that.
Mark: [00:13:48] Yeah, we, we, we take them out for, we take them out for lunch. We do lunch and we do lunch and learns. We do, we do happy hours.
We basically just do anything we possibly [00:14:00] can too. And that’s kind of in some ways that’s instead of spending money on marketing Wolf spend money on, on relationships as well. And you mentioned it’s repeat business. So basically we’re going to do everything we can through incentives, through parties, through just building relationships the old fashioned way.
So that when they have that listing, that’s, it’s a tough property. It needs rehab. It’s not really ready for reasonably a retail ready kind of property. Or maybe they have a listing that’s old that they just, the seller all of a sudden becomes really motivated. Or maybe maybe they just had a deal fall through and the sellers really frustrated.
So now they’re ready to take. To sell it for a lower price. We want to be the, the first call we, they’d get, they’d get, I mean, first of all, they make, and so we just do everything we possibly can. And then we can talk about, we, we also offer, we, we, we, a lot of our email and texts, um, [00:15:00] blasts, we’ll talk about how we’ll offer triple commission.
So even though we are a broker, we have a brokerage, but we’ll give up that brokerage commission. Give them both sides of the tree of the transaction. And then we’ll in in our edge we’ll say we’ll give them triple commission. Cause not only did they get both sides of the transaction, but when we flip the house, since we’re not holding these for rental.
Well, we flip it. We’ll also give them the listing. Yeah. We think that, so we think the triple commission, and I stole this idea from another, another company. Um, that was
Mike: [00:15:33] doing, you modeled it.
Mark: [00:15:36] I borrowed a bottle, borrowed it, modeled. Um, and, uh, so we, we really play heavily on this kind of idea of triple commission.
And that’s, that’s definitely been a key. Some of the, a lot of the relationships,
Mike: [00:15:51] so they get both sides. They get both sides, and then probably the seller side is paying on the purchase, right?
Mark: [00:15:56] Yeah. And then they get,
Mike: [00:15:58] and then when you list it, you’re paying them and you’re paying [00:16:00] them three through traditional 3% as well.
Mark: [00:16:02] Yeah.
Mike: [00:16:05] Money, money
Mark: [00:16:06] talks, right. Money talks, money talks. It’s a little tough because we are brokers, so we could be keeping that permission ourselves. But, but we think that this is, but this is really a way to generate deals for us.
Mike: [00:16:20] Yeah. And, and again, that’s in lieu of some other marketing costs that you might have.
Mark: [00:16:25] Exactly. Exactly. So there should, there’s hidden marketing costs to what we’re doing, but it’s, it’s just a different way of spending money. Yup.
Mike: [00:16:32] So you do things like happy hours and then you guys are just have what kind of, talk a little bit about what happens at a happy hour or a party or how you communicate in your emails.
It’s obviously, Hey, we’ll pay you triple commission if you have a deal. But how do you try to nurture those relationships like person to person wise rather than just like throwing money at him? Cause I know that’s a big part of it too, is them feeling like they’re part of something else. Right.
Mark: [00:16:54] I think, I think we, the first thing we have to do is we have to stay, establish credibility.
[00:17:00] And we’re able to do that fairly easily just because they see that we’re really active in the market. We are definitely one of the biggest players in the market, so we can, we can show them that we’ve done no well way over under deals. So that they know we’re for real. They know we really do. We really do have money, but the key is really one is to do what is just simply you got do what you say you’re going to do.
So if we tell them, we tell them when we meet with them, we tell them, if we tell you we’re going to buy the property, we’re going to buy the property. And if we say we’re going to buy the property for $200,000 we’re gonna buy the property for $200,000 just terms. So be really honest, to be really upfront, not to, not to retrain them, Bryce, and it doesn’t mean if we go in there and we find things that they didn’t tell us about, that we won’t try to renegotiate.
But if it’s, if it is as they presented it, we will go in and we will, we will pay what we, where we said we were going to pay.
Mike: [00:17:59] Right. [00:18:00] Yeah. Not for realtors. For a typical realtor though, not, you know, they care about, obviously a triple commission is fantastic cause nobody else has given them that. But on top of that, it’s the easy button too, right?
It’s like, Hey, we’re going to do this. I know. You know, for the most part, you guys would, if you’re, especially if you’re rehabbing, you would prefer to close as fast as possible. And then of course you want to, you ha you have to sell it as quickly as possible because you’re, it’s
Mark: [00:18:22] costing .
Mike: [00:18:24] Everything is in there and saying, if you’re going to make more money and faster than a traditional
Mark: [00:18:28] route, right.
Yeah, absolutely. We had good, we’ve had good luck with it. I mean, it’s really a, like I said, it’s a big, it’s a big, big part of our business. What else do I do? I do want to make clear that. We still think the MLS is a great plate. I know, I know. Most investors seem to be, you know, same to say, you know, the MLS is stupid because everybody can, it’s public information, but when, but, but that’s kind of a big part of our secret sauce as well.
Mike: [00:18:56] And I think part of it is because there’s so much opportunity. In [00:19:00] requirement for value add in your market? Right. I mean, in a market like Dallas where I’m at, um, you know, the typical rehab might be more of like 20 or 30,000. Not that there’s not, I mean, I’ve spent over a hundred thousand on rehabs before, but a typical one, it’s just quicker.
They’re just not, as, you know, they’re probably more commonly a 30 or 40 year old house than a hundred year old house that just needs a lot of updates. So.
Mark: [00:19:23] Yeah. And in Chicago there’s so many properties that are just really not really met, ready for retail. And so,
Mike: [00:19:31] yeah, I think even here, you know, sometimes, uh, in Dallas where I’m at on a 30 or $40,000 rehab, if it’s largely cosmetic, they might still be able to.
Sell that to a retail buyer that can get traditional financing. Know, maybe not FHA, but, but the types of rehabs you guys are doing there, like a traditional lenders not going to touch it, right? Unless
Mark: [00:19:50] you do. Vendors won’t, lenders won’t touch it. And most buy and most retail buyers won’t touch it.
Mike: [00:19:55] Yup. Yup.
So Mark, any, any thoughts on people that kinda hear this and they, they [00:20:00] want to, uh, kinda emulate, just maybe some, some, a little bit of a lessons learned on the networking part? Like how to build relationships like over time. And I know probably one of the things you’ll say is it’s important to be consistent, right?
And just constantly be in front of people. But any other kind of tips or thoughts on that?
Mark: [00:20:17] Honestly, it’s, I wish I had some real secret sauce. It’s simple. It’s like you said, it’s consistent. It’s a pain in the neck. We’re constantly having to create new emails, new tech, new text messages, and we’re constantly having to market
So we just, we just are religious. We have a calendar that we put together and we just say on this date we’re going to, on this date, we’re going to send out an email to the whole database. On this day. We’re going to send that a text. And it’s just staying, staying consistent, kind of recreating a lot of our, a lot of, a lot of times our emails won’t even talk about triple commission a lot.
Then it’ll just show a deal. A recent deal. And then, and [00:21:00] then in addition, by the way, when we send out these, these email blasts, a lot of times we’ll put in a blurb about their, and by the way, our investors may 14% or our investor may 22% whatever they may on the deal. And, and so we’re, uh, we’re also trying to put in people’s mind that we’re always looking to raise money as well.
So there, there’s kind of a dual, a dual strategy in some, in some of our marketing all but the main strategy is finding deals. But the secondary strategy is also trying to find people that want to invest.
Mike: [00:21:31] Yup. That’s a good idea. And you’re, you’re, um, w I’m sure it’s different in every market, but would you say through all this relationship building that a majority of your leads are kind of what mix comes from.
New listings that haven’t hit the market yet, that the agent knew they wanted to come to you versus old stuff that the seller reset expectations or the deal fell through, or something that’s kind of been listed and they’re like, Hey, go to plan B. Like, do you know kind of that mix of people you’re catching
Mark: [00:21:58] early on versus stuff [00:22:00] out?
Embarrassed to tell you this, I’d have to make up an answer cause I don’t know.
Mike: [00:22:04] Yeah. I just always, I always ask questions that are hard to answer. So, uh,
Mark: [00:22:07] I’m good at that. Yeah,
Mike: [00:22:12] sure, sure. Yeah, I get it. So, Mark, um, you know, you’ve been a member of the investor fuel mastermind for a little while here, been to two or three meetings.
Now are you or your team, could you maybe share some thoughts on, you’ve been in some, uh, you’ve been around for a long time and I think our group is a little bit different than, than most or other, uh. Associations, if you will, that might be out there. Could you maybe just kind of share some thoughts on what your experience has been with investor fuel?
Mark: [00:22:37] Yeah. I’m a, I’m a huge, huge, huge fan. Um, I went, I’ve been to meetings and then also the last meeting, um, my partners, uh, I actually had a conflict, so my partners went and saw that. And we’re all huge, huge fans. Um, I think the, the most amazing thing is just how much people are willing to share. I know, I know, like the last meeting that I [00:23:00] went to when they asked us to give out the giver, the giver, who was the biggest givers, I had a name, you know, several people.
Cause I was, I was really just amazed by how many people were very open about sharing stuff. That’s really, I mean, you know, really proprietary to their business, but, but just didn’t, didn’t hold back. Um, I think people really enjoyed being together. The dinners are lots of, lots of fun. Uh, lots of, lots of good relationships.
I know people go on trips together and, uh, do lots of people do deals together. Uh, I think it’s, it’s money that’s, you know, extraordinarily well spent. And, and, um, I would, you know, I definitely, I hope I’m, I hope I’m part of investor fuel forever. And we planned, we park, we plan to be part of invest or fuel forever.
Mike: [00:23:52] Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Mark. Uh, did it didn’t, I don’t know if I told you that we’re actually about to announce our forever plan. No kidding. [00:24:00] I’m joking. I’m joking. But no, we appreciate that. I mean, we’ve, you know, we think we’ve built this culture of give and you’re going to receive back. And I think that everybody.
You know, a lot of people that come in real estate investors are naturally a little timid to say to believe that upfront or whatever. Cause this is a kind of a, you know, in many ways a dog eat dog, uh, uh, industry, right? But I think when people kind of get in and they’re like, sometimes they feel like, wow, I gave, I got so much I need to get, find a way to give more.
Mark: [00:24:27] I think also the last comment I would make about investor fuel, it’s, it’s a great size. So some investors, some, some masterminds. I think. Are too small, so you just don’t have as many members, which means you just don’t have as many ideas. You don’t have as many people to learn to learn from, you know, have as many people to share with.
So, so you just don’t get as much out of it. And then some masterminds can be just too big, where people, where it’s just too impersonal and people, you don’t really get to know the people well enough. [00:25:00] To really learn and share, which is what, what the, the whole idea is. So I think, Matt, I think this is kind of Rick, just a perfect size.
I hope it, you know, it’s definitely grow a little bit, but it’s, it’s, it doesn’t, but it just, it’s just a lot of value add. Just a great, a great network in there.
Mike: [00:25:16] Well, thank you for that, Mark. So if you borrow money from people in Chicago, or I guess you’d be willing to borrow money from people anywhere, um, you do, you, you guys, you have a lot of money on the street, right?
Are outright now, I mean,
Mark: [00:25:29] it’s pretty sizeable. We have a senior lender and then, and then in addition to that, we’ve raised about $5 million. We raise two different kinds of capitals. Some, some people prefer to give us money in the form of debt, and we, and we pay them 14 to 15% interest and we pay interest quarterly.
And then some people would forego the debt and rather take a take a not get quarterly interest payments and then they give us equity instead. [00:26:00] And those people that have been earning between 20 and 25% actually, we can give them actual equity in deals, and we raised it. You know, we raised mostly, most of our investors give us maybe a hundred thousand dollars we have some investors that have given us $1 million.
But all altogether, we’ve raised about $5 million from, from basically from friends.
Mike: [00:26:23] And then you have some senior debt on top of that, which probably even larger pool. Right. So, yeah.
Mark: [00:26:26] Yeah. We have, we have a senior debt line of about 25 million.
Mike: [00:26:30] Yeah. So you’ve got a lot of, a lot of money. You have a, you have a, a big appetite.
Mark: [00:26:35] folks that
Mike: [00:26:36] are interested in lending or their wholesalers that want to work with you in Chicago or any other way that they might, you know, see some opportunity to talk to you. Where should they go to connect with you guys.
Mark: [00:26:47] Uh, well, we, it’s, um, I’m, I’m my personal email I can give out is M [00:27:00] [email protected] M filler at apex home partners that come.
And then our website is apex national real estate.
Mike: [00:27:11] Let me write that down.
Awesome. So if you guys are driving right now, I’m going to get, get these links down in the show notes, so make sure you check them out online and we’ll make sure we get that to you.
Mark: [00:27:23] So was the share ideas are at pick our brains or ask anything about what we’re doing? Well, we’re complete open book, so it will be happy, happy to share.
And anybody who wants to invest, we love that even more.
Mike: [00:27:36] Yeah. Well, I mean, you’re, you’re doing all the things that are like every collaboration you could possibly do, buying from wholesalers, bringing in equity partners or debt partners, buying from, uh, networking and, uh, you know, borrowing money from the outside world too.
So there’s obviously everything you just said is, has collaboration written all over it. So I’m super interested in make sure you, uh, contact Mark [00:28:00] or. Go to the link below and contact this company and they’ll reach out to you. So Mark, thanks for sharing so much. Great knowledge today. Thank
Mark: [00:28:06] you. Thanks for having us.
Mike: [00:28:08] Absolutely. Looking forward to seeing you soon. Yeah. Thank you for everybody that’s, uh, listening right now, we’d love it if you subscribe to us on iTunes, Stitcher, Google, play, YouTube, wherever you’re watching right now, we’d love it if you subscribe to us and give us a positive review, or she can find all of our shows.
At investor fuel.com until the next episode. We’ll see you then.
Mark: [00:28:29] Thanks guys. Facebook,
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